Comments about ‘My view: A shutdown would protect liberty’

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Published: Wednesday, Aug. 14 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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The Hammer
lehi, utah

The Senate has the power to amend the house bill and strip it of its anti-obamacare provisions and send it back to the house with everything in obamacare fully funded and then the house would be forced to vote on that version.

If they didn't vote it wouldn't be the Democrats that shut down the government it would be the Republicans fault and the polls already show that. And this time all employees including Military personnel would NOT get a pay check October 1st and you would have millions of military families who can't go to the commissary to buy food!

I support liberty but this idea by Mike Lee is plain dim-witted!

Salt Lake City, UT

Sabotaging the bill (cutting off funding doesn't get rid of the law, it just eliminates the subsidies to help the lower middle class pay for health insurance) is electoral suicide for Republicans. That's why Lee isn't getting support in his party. Polls show 40% support it vs 55% oppose (around 5% are undecided). However around 12% of people oppose it due to it not being liberal enough. Those people don't like Lee's plan, they just want single payer or a public option.

Iron Rod
Salt Lake City, UT

"A recent national survey show " Two thirds oppose funding the Affordable Care Act" What is t he source please?

Silver Spring, MD

With respect, the ACA is about as far from "socialism" as any comprehensive healthcare can be. It relies on a very capitalist insurance industry. If anything, it brings them more customers. Most parts of it were based on Conservative ideas (including the Heritage Foundation), most mirror what Gov. Romney did in Massachusetts and touted as a model for a national solution. Richard Nixon proposed a plan back in the 1970s that was far more "socialist" than anything President Obama could ever come up with.

The ACA is far from ideal, but is far better than a system in which millions go without protection until they need it, and then we all end up paying for it anyway. I'd rather a system like one of the many in other post-industrialized nations (several of which I have experienced first hand), but the ACA is a good start.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

“The House has voted 40 times to repeal . . . All such votes died with Sen. Harry Reid” And the little fact that the Senate has a majority of Democrats.

“The ruling was manipulated and wrong. The Supreme Court failed to protect citizens from bad legislation.” Okay. But this is the most conservative court in my lifetime. If you can’t get what you want from them you probably just can’t get what you want (cue the Rolling Stones).

Constitutional government is deteriorating . . . government policies and activities . . . circumvent basic rights and liberties (e.g., NSA spying, IRS scandal, FBI reporters). At the crux of it all is Obamacare. It's the Trojan horse that will push the country toward socialism and economic collapse.” Wow. Obamacare gave us NSA spying? Really? This is beyond hyperbole.

And the “solution” is to shut down the govt.? You can take your chances and it may play well with the most conservative part of the base, but you can kiss off the presidency and probably a few more senate seats (Republicans might no longer have 40% to stop a cloture vote).

Careful what you ask for.

Far East USA, SC

Fact - the current trajectory of health care costs is not sustainable as people get older and move to medicare. It is our single biggest deficit issue moving forward.

So, logic would say that SOMETHING must be done. Is that Obamacare? I certainly think there are better options.

The GOP has consistently said REPEAL and REPLACE. They have thrown out some tidbits here and there (insurance across state lines, tort reform) but have not produced ANYTHING that we can look at and critique. WHY? WHY? WHY?

You want the American people behind repealing Obamacare? Give us a SPECIFIC plan that can be scrutinized and debated, point by point.

Enough of the platitudes. Show us SPECIFICS. Back them up with logic.

I am willing to listen and would be open. But, there has yet to be anything to debate.

Either that, or stage another useless house vote that wastes time and money and accomplishes NOTHING.

Huntsville, UT

"The sky has fallen, the sky has fallen".

Oh, wait, I have the story backwards.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

If defunding ObamaCare is political suicide for the Republicans, you would think that every Democrat would want that bill to pass. You would think that Reid would demand that the Republicans defund ObamaCare. You would think that the President would campaign to have the Republicans defund ObamaCare. But, it is the Democrats who will lose IF ObamaCare is funded. It is the Democrats who will lose when working Americans see a larger percentage of their income going to the government for "health-care" than they (and their employer) now pay for Social Security.

Obama lied about the cost of ObamaCare. He lied about the non-existant savings for every family. He lied about the number of people who would be covered. He lied about pre-existing conditions. He lied about people being able to keepd their current plans and their current doctors. He lied about every part of ObamaCare. Now he wants to delay the implementation of ObamaCare until after the 2014 Election. If ObamaCare offered anything of benefit, he would want it fully in place before the election. He would want the Democrats to get full benefit.

He messed up - and now he's running away from ObamaCare.

one vote
Salt Lake City, UT

How did the conservative right get in this desperate situation? Is the next step after civil disobedience of law starting civil war? Trying to bring down our economy and government is un-American.

Durham, NC

"If defunding ObamaCare is political suicide for the Republicans, you would think that every Democrat would want that bill to pass."

No, because reasonable people understand a lot more is at stake than partisan bragging rights. Even Senator Lee has backed away from shutting down the government. With troops oversees... to pull resources away from them to prove a political point would put their lives directly in harms way.

And then the so called 40 votes... The Senate is not standing in the way of this. Even if Republicans had the same level of support in the Senate, it still isn't by veto proof margins. Instead of over the top grandstanding comments, spend just a fraction of this energy to fix those things that are wrong with the Affordable Care Act.

Do something productive for once.

Roosevelt, UT

USA has a medical system that is broken, when an uninsured person gets medial care now the rest of the country is on the hook financially for it. Obamacare is not percect but it holds people accountable. When everyone has insurance the government (you and I) will continue to help them but the numbers will be known. In the current system the numbers of uninsured is hazy and each month can be different. The government needs to know what to budget for.

Obamacare has holes and deficiencies but it does allow the country to come up with a hard number of those who will be needing assistance.

Socialism is like a bad word, but this country already enjoys socialism in education. When our house catches fire the socialistic firemen show up, when we see a crime committed we call the socialistic policemen. We drive on roads that are government funded, past utiltiies that are government mandated.

Get beyond your fears and look around you. The country is on a crash course and Obamacare will put it off for years. Nobody seems comfortable enough with change to fix it

Salt Lake City, UT

Shutting down the government would protect liberty?

Are you for real?

The GOP battle cry these days seems to be, "We must destroy America in order to save it."

Which is precisely why fewer and fewer Americans take these guys seriously.

The Conservative bubble is shrinking rapidly. Fine by me.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Rather than have a Tea Party government, I would prefer a shutdown and reorganization of America. I wonder who the new national government over Utah will be. Mexico is probably a top contender with China as No. 2 choice. While it probably won’t be better for the general population of Utah, it can’t get much worse.

At the age of 78 and with most of my children and grandchildren already on the rocks, it doesn’t seem to matter.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Because Obama has spent well over $5,000,000,000,000 more than he has, Congress must act. Communist China controls us because it controls our purse. China will decide what happens to America if Senator Lee is ignored.

We cannot pay the government another 18% to 24% from the private sector without destroying this country. The stock market needs capital from insurance companies or it will collapse. If it collapses, all retirement funds will be destroyed. Those who don't understand how the premiums from insurance are invested would know nothing about the consequences of taking that money out of the private sector.

Obama will spend all of that money on his friends, just as he has spent every available dime on his friends since he has taken office. He has nothing to show for spending us into bankruptcy.

Shut down all spending until the government agrees to abide by the Constitution.

The Court ruled that ObamaCare is a tax. It is the largest tax ever levied on Americans. It will not improve health-care because it is not going to be used for health-care. Obama will mix it with the general fund.

Follow the money!

The Hammer
lehi, utah

@Mike Richards

And if the government is shut down, payments to medical providers through medicare/medicaid would stop and states would be unable to pay the bills for their portion of medicaid. Hospitals would scream for cash because 50-70% of hospitals recieve most of their revenues (about 75% or more) from Medicare/medicaid and some might not be able to operate. Many companies revenues who have government contracts for military or other needs would post significant losses from the shutdown and valuations all over the market would feel a ripple effect and speed us down another recession.

Obamacare sucks and is not based on capitalistic principles. But there will come a time to defund and replace it but we don't hold the power to do that.

Salt Lake City, UT

Beckham has it right. With a majority of Americans wanting Obamacare to disappear, an outright repeal would not pass the senate so the only alternative is to withhold any funding for the program, include all other funding in the bill. If the senate and the administration choose to not accept the bill, then they are ones that are 'shutting down the government'.

It is the right thing to do for the country.

Res Novae
Ashburn, VA

"If defunding ObamaCare is political suicide for the Republicans, you would think that every Democrat would want that bill to pass. You would think that Reid would demand that the Republicans defund ObamaCare. You would think that the President would campaign to have the Republicans defund ObamaCare. "

The Democrats are interested in enacting legislation they feel is necessary for the good of the country and is the centerpiece of the president's domestic agenda. They will pass up an opportunity to let the Republicans spin the rope to hang themselves with in order to allow ACA to go into effect.

But thank you for projecting what passes for Republican core values these days and demonstrating the scorched earth, "play my way or I take the ball home" playground mentality that the Far Right has adopted lately. It's an easy substitute for having to come up with real alternatives.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Here's the difference between conservatives and liberals: conservatives are willing to shut down the gov't to keep people from getting health care. Liberals like me were all for shutting down the gov't to prevent our country from bombing and killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in a cruel, unprovoked war on behalf of the oil companies. I'm proud to be a liberal.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

First, the ACA is absolutely constitutional. I don't know what 'the Supreme Court was manipulated means,' but they did rule, and their ruling was valid. Second of all, it hasn't been implemented yet. Once it is, it will be very popular, enough so that it won't be an issue in the next Presidential campaign. And third of all, Mike Lee is just throwing a tantrum. Best ignored.

Durham, NC

China has 8% of the US debt.... the US government itself is the highest holder of its own debt... not China. I admire you enthusiasm.... but some of the facts you are using just doesn't hold water. Insurance companies do invest huge amounts of money into the markets, but they are far from the prime movers of market value when it comes to equities.

You really need to validate your sources. And remember... I know you want to blame Obama for the spending... but Obama doesn't control the purse. In all your constitutional reading, that should have become painfully clear. He doesn't create the budget. He doesn't pass the budget. He only spends what congress tells he to. The buck literally stops there.

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