Published: Wednesday, Aug. 14 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT
The Senate has the power to amend the house bill and strip it of its
anti-obamacare provisions and send it back to the house with everything in
obamacare fully funded and then the house would be forced to vote on that
version. If they didn't vote it wouldn't be the Democrats
that shut down the government it would be the Republicans fault and the polls
already show that. And this time all employees including Military personnel
would NOT get a pay check October 1st and you would have millions of military
families who can't go to the commissary to buy food!I support
liberty but this idea by Mike Lee is plain dim-witted!
Sabotaging the bill (cutting off funding doesn't get rid of the law, it
just eliminates the subsidies to help the lower middle class pay for health
insurance) is electoral suicide for Republicans. That's why Lee isn't
getting support in his party. Polls show 40% support it vs 55% oppose (around 5%
are undecided). However around 12% of people oppose it due to it not being
liberal enough. Those people don't like Lee's plan, they just want
single payer or a public option.
"A recent national survey show " Two thirds oppose funding the
Affordable Care Act" What is t he source please?
With respect, the ACA is about as far from "socialism" as any
comprehensive healthcare can be. It relies on a very capitalist insurance
industry. If anything, it brings them more customers. Most parts of it were
based on Conservative ideas (including the Heritage Foundation), most mirror
what Gov. Romney did in Massachusetts and touted as a model for a national
solution. Richard Nixon proposed a plan back in the 1970s that was far more
"socialist" than anything President Obama could ever come up with.The ACA is far from ideal, but is far better than a system in which
millions go without protection until they need it, and then we all end up paying
for it anyway. I'd rather a system like one of the many in other
post-industrialized nations (several of which I have experienced first hand),
but the ACA is a good start.
“The House has voted 40 times to repeal . . . All such votes died with
Sen. Harry Reid” And the little fact that the Senate has a majority of
Democrats.“The ruling was manipulated and wrong. The Supreme
Court failed to protect citizens from bad legislation.” Okay. But this
is the most conservative court in my lifetime. If you can’t get what you
want from them you probably just can’t get what you want (cue the Rolling
Stones).Constitutional government is deteriorating . . . government
policies and activities . . . circumvent basic rights and liberties (e.g., NSA
spying, IRS scandal, FBI reporters). At the crux of it all is Obamacare.
It's the Trojan horse that will push the country toward socialism and
economic collapse.” Wow. Obamacare gave us NSA spying? Really? This is
beyond hyperbole.And the “solution” is to shut down the
govt.? You can take your chances and it may play well with the most
conservative part of the base, but you can kiss off the presidency and probably
a few more senate seats (Republicans might no longer have 40% to stop a cloture
vote).Careful what you ask for.
Fact - the current trajectory of health care costs is not sustainable as people
get older and move to medicare. It is our single biggest deficit issue moving
forward.So, logic would say that SOMETHING must be done. Is that
Obamacare? I certainly think there are better options.The GOP has
consistently said REPEAL and REPLACE. They have thrown out some tidbits here
and there (insurance across state lines, tort reform) but have not produced
ANYTHING that we can look at and critique. WHY? WHY? WHY?You want
the American people behind repealing Obamacare? Give us a SPECIFIC plan that
can be scrutinized and debated, point by point.Enough of the
platitudes. Show us SPECIFICS. Back them up with logic. I am
willing to listen and would be open. But, there has yet to be anything to
debate.Either that, or stage another useless house vote that wastes
time and money and accomplishes NOTHING.
"The sky has fallen, the sky has fallen".Oh, wait, I have
the story backwards.
If defunding ObamaCare is political suicide for the Republicans, you would think
that every Democrat would want that bill to pass. You would think that Reid
would demand that the Republicans defund ObamaCare. You would think that the
President would campaign to have the Republicans defund ObamaCare. But, it is
the Democrats who will lose IF ObamaCare is funded. It is the Democrats who
will lose when working Americans see a larger percentage of their income going
to the government for "health-care" than they (and their employer) now
pay for Social Security.Obama lied about the cost of ObamaCare. He
lied about the non-existant savings for every family. He lied about the number
of people who would be covered. He lied about pre-existing conditions. He lied
about people being able to keepd their current plans and their current doctors.
He lied about every part of ObamaCare. Now he wants to delay the implementation
of ObamaCare until after the 2014 Election. If ObamaCare offered anything of
benefit, he would want it fully in place before the election. He would want the
Democrats to get full benefit. He messed up - and now he's
running away from ObamaCare.
How did the conservative right get in this desperate situation? Is the next step
after civil disobedience of law starting civil war? Trying to bring down our
economy and government is un-American.
"If defunding ObamaCare is political suicide for the Republicans, you would
think that every Democrat would want that bill to pass."No,
because reasonable people understand a lot more is at stake than partisan
bragging rights. Even Senator Lee has backed away from shutting down the
government. With troops oversees... to pull resources away from them to prove a
political point would put their lives directly in harms way.And then
the so called 40 votes... The Senate is not standing in the way of this. Even
if Republicans had the same level of support in the Senate, it still isn't
by veto proof margins. Instead of over the top grandstanding comments, spend
just a fraction of this energy to fix those things that are wrong with the
Affordable Care Act. Do something productive for once.
USA has a medical system that is broken, when an uninsured person gets medial
care now the rest of the country is on the hook financially for it. Obamacare
is not percect but it holds people accountable. When everyone has insurance the
government (you and I) will continue to help them but the numbers will be known.
In the current system the numbers of uninsured is hazy and each month can be
different. The government needs to know what to budget for.Obamacare has holes and deficiencies but it does allow the country to come up
with a hard number of those who will be needing assistance.Socialism
is like a bad word, but this country already enjoys socialism in education.
When our house catches fire the socialistic firemen show up, when we see a crime
committed we call the socialistic policemen. We drive on roads that are
government funded, past utiltiies that are government mandated.Get
beyond your fears and look around you. The country is on a crash course and
Obamacare will put it off for years. Nobody seems comfortable enough with
change to fix it
Shutting down the government would protect liberty? Are you for
real?The GOP battle cry these days seems to be, "We must destroy
America in order to save it."Which is precisely why fewer and
fewer Americans take these guys seriously.The Conservative bubble is
shrinking rapidly. Fine by me.
Rather than have a Tea Party government, I would prefer a shutdown and
reorganization of America. I wonder who the new national government over Utah
will be. Mexico is probably a top contender with China as No. 2 choice. While
it probably won’t be better for the general population of Utah, it
can’t get much worse. At the age of 78 and with most of my
children and grandchildren already on the rocks, it doesn’t seem to
Because Obama has spent well over $5,000,000,000,000 more than he has, Congress
must act. Communist China controls us because it controls our purse. China
will decide what happens to America if Senator Lee is ignored.We
cannot pay the government another 18% to 24% from the private sector without
destroying this country. The stock market needs capital from insurance
companies or it will collapse. If it collapses, all retirement funds will be
destroyed. Those who don't understand how the premiums from insurance are
invested would know nothing about the consequences of taking that money out of
the private sector. Obama will spend all of that money on his
friends, just as he has spent every available dime on his friends since he has
taken office. He has nothing to show for spending us into bankruptcy.Shut down all spending until the government agrees to abide by the
Constitution.The Court ruled that ObamaCare is a tax. It is the
largest tax ever levied on Americans. It will not improve health-care because
it is not going to be used for health-care. Obama will mix it with the general
fund.Follow the money!
@Mike RichardsAnd if the government is shut down, payments to
medical providers through medicare/medicaid would stop and states would be
unable to pay the bills for their portion of medicaid. Hospitals would scream
for cash because 50-70% of hospitals recieve most of their revenues (about 75%
or more) from Medicare/medicaid and some might not be able to operate. Many
companies revenues who have government contracts for military or other needs
would post significant losses from the shutdown and valuations all over the
market would feel a ripple effect and speed us down another recession.Obamacare sucks and is not based on capitalistic principles. But there will
come a time to defund and replace it but we don't hold the power to do
Beckham has it right. With a majority of Americans wanting Obamacare to
disappear, an outright repeal would not pass the senate so the only alternative
is to withhold any funding for the program, include all other funding in the
bill. If the senate and the administration choose to not accept the bill, then
they are ones that are 'shutting down the government'.It
is the right thing to do for the country.
"If defunding ObamaCare is political suicide for the Republicans, you would
think that every Democrat would want that bill to pass. You would think that
Reid would demand that the Republicans defund ObamaCare. You would think that
the President would campaign to have the Republicans defund
ObamaCare. "The Democrats are interested in enacting
legislation they feel is necessary for the good of the country and is the
centerpiece of the president's domestic agenda. They will pass up an
opportunity to let the Republicans spin the rope to hang themselves with in
order to allow ACA to go into effect.But thank you for projecting
what passes for Republican core values these days and demonstrating the scorched
earth, "play my way or I take the ball home" playground mentality that
the Far Right has adopted lately. It's an easy substitute for having to
come up with real alternatives.
Here's the difference between conservatives and liberals: conservatives are
willing to shut down the gov't to keep people from getting health care.
Liberals like me were all for shutting down the gov't to prevent our
country from bombing and killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in a cruel,
unprovoked war on behalf of the oil companies. I'm proud to be a liberal.
First, the ACA is absolutely constitutional. I don't know what 'the
Supreme Court was manipulated means,' but they did rule, and their ruling
was valid. Second of all, it hasn't been implemented yet. Once it is, it
will be very popular, enough so that it won't be an issue in the next
Presidential campaign. And third of all, Mike Lee is just throwing a tantrum.
China has 8% of the US debt.... the US government itself is the highest holder
of its own debt... not China. I admire you enthusiasm.... but some of the facts
you are using just doesn't hold water. Insurance companies do invest huge
amounts of money into the markets, but they are far from the prime movers of
market value when it comes to equities. You really need to validate
your sources. And remember... I know you want to blame Obama for the
spending... but Obama doesn't control the purse. In all your
constitutional reading, that should have become painfully clear. He
doesn't create the budget. He doesn't pass the budget. He only
spends what congress tells he to. The buck literally stops there.
DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.— About comments