To "The Hammer" if it isn't the illegal immigrant parents teaching
the children they brought across the border that they deserve everything that
legal children have, who is?Who has taught these kids that when they
grow up that they should get everything that a legal citizen is entitled to?
There was a lot of people in the military I met who was in to get citizenship.
They where earning respect.
"Hammer" I live all around illegal trespassers. I live in a sanctuary
city. Sometimes the illegal next door and I share rides together.I
don't have ANYTHING at all against illegal law-breakers personally. Mostly
I see that if they are allowed to blatantly and continually ignore laws, chaos
and tyranny will result. I learned,I think in 4th grade,that we have an
obligation to try to obey the laws, even the ones we don't like.Its NOT my job to arrest/deport lawbreakers. We, together, all of us legal
citizens, have put that trust in an arm of our government. They let us down and
now want us to just ignore that they've let us down. They say we should
"go along to get along" and ignore the fact that they've let in 30
million or so lawbreakers.Where I live I've occassionally
called the police to report drug dealing, armed robbery, etc. The police seem
at least somewhat interested in those things, but NOT AT ALL interested in
illegal trespassers.Why is that?Illegal trespassing and
fraudulently obtaining benefits is NOT a victimless crime!
@the HammerThe program that is available now, takes 2-6 months, not
years. They are moved to the front of the line for their honesty. If the
program doesn't fit their needs, then they should stay home. It is not
justification for breaking the laws like their parents. There are a
lot of nice people that break the law. They are still subject to our laws and
penalties. In order to work, they commit multiple felonies that would put
Americans in jail for years. The damage done to the American worker is well
documented, with depressed wages, and lost jobs. Talk to a victim of identity
theft and see how it can cost thousands of dollars and years to clear up. Talk
to America's Black youth that have double the unemployment, and the Black
Leadership Congress that is fighting for the Senate to kill their bill. It will
make life even worse for young Black men. We would not be having this discussion
if it did not supply surplus labor to business. As you pointed out, it's
not about school, it's about jobs and sponsoring family. We are being lied
@Anti-liar, redshirtYour example and comments lacks further understanding
about who illegal aliens are. Have you met them? I meet them every day. I used
to say the same things you and Ann Coulter did. But after meeting them I have
found that most of them are just simple people, like you and me, who are good
people. They left their country to find a better opportunity. Please place
yourself in their shoes for a minute. These are fathers and mothers, young men
and young women who for the MOST part are seeking to support themselves or
families through honest work. Most of them don’t teach their children they
are entitled. Please stop taking La Raza as the authority for how they think or
feel. Don’t you hate it when the national media makes the tea party look
extreme and crazy and doesn't validate the concerns they have.La raza
is similar to the tea party please understand what they are concerned about
otherwise you are doing what the mainstream media does to tea partiers.
The HammerI thought the dream act was for education, now you are
telling me that it's for the jobs? Not using the program makes the adults
illegal. And it's due to their actions, not their parents.
Actually, U.S. residency and education, among other things, IS being stolen when
parents illegally enter the country and traffic their children into the country.
Those pushing the emotionally manipulative sophistry that we must
not "punish" children for the sins of their parents really are telling a
lie. One, requiring that they return with their parents to their lawful
countries of residence is not punishment. Punishment consists of fines,
confiscation of property, and prison time. No one has ever suggested that a
minor child should be imprisoned for the crimes of his parents. So that's
lie number one. Lie number two is the notion that if a bank robber
robs a bank and then passes the loot to his child, that child should be allowed
to keep the loot and if we do not allow him to do so, we somehow are being
"heartless," or "unfair." This lie is the essential premise
behind the notion that Dreamer children should be allowed to keep the U.S.
residency and education, etc. their parents STOLE for them. These
parents also are using their children as pawns as an avenue for residency for
themselves, by way of retroactive chain migration and sponsorship.
Hammer,Thanks. I should have searched on "Stole" instead. Now I
can see what you're talking about.Yah, that's a little
over-the-top. They didn't really steal anything. IMO the
parents should be punished for any laws they broke. Crossing the border
illegally is one offense. I don't know what the punishment should be.
But if the parents or children used a stolen or forged SS#s to get work or
register for school, food stamps, health insurance, etc... there should be a
penalty for that too. I would go to jail if I stole somebody's identity
(SS#). So I would expect even a Dreamer would go to jail for that (like I
would).The children don't need to be punished. Missing their
parents is punishment enough. But the parents shouldn't be allowed to
break the law and not be punished because punishing them may also punish the
children. Any parent that's been sent to jail knows that their children
suffer for their bad decisions.
@The Hammer"Most were invited here by our farmers and
businesses."That is balderdash. It is impossible for farmers
and businesses to "invite" foreigners to enter this country illegally.
They have no legal standing, no authority, no prerogative to do so. They can
ENCOURAGE them to come here illegally. They can form partnerships-in-crime with
them, by hiring them illegally. But they cannot "invite" them here.And the illegal aliens themselves know perfectly well that what they are
doing is illegal.And they teach their children that they are
"entitled" and that coming here illegally is the right way to U.S.
residency and an American education. Granting them amnesty would
only confirm that the morally reprehensible lesson their parents taught them was
valid. How "caring!" How "compassionate!" How
hypocritical! If those pushing for amnesty really cared about
"the children," they would encourage them to return home -- with the
illegal-alien parents who brought them here. They would teach them that the
manipulative, Dreamer SCAM of illegally trafficking children into this country
and then falsely GUILTING Americans into setting aside the rule of law,
won't fly in America. Then maybe these children would have a
chance, morally speaking.
Please refer to lost in DCs comments-"I could support it if the
requirement was to serve in the military, where they are GIVING to the country
their parents stole from, but NOT taxpayer funded college, where they are still
TAKING from the country their parents stole from."
What about the dreamers that are here legally? Why should my child, who was
born here legally have to compete for college placement and scholarships with
people that are here illegally?What many people forget is that the
parents of the illegal immigrants are either intentionally abusing the system or
else are very selfish when they come here. Either way it doesn't make the
US a better place. Abusing the system because they think that the US government
will turn a blind eye to their children or else selfish because they are more
concerned about making money for themselves than securing a good future for
their children.Lets look at this using an example that more people
can relate with.Imagine your teach your kids that it is ok to litter
and just throw their garbage on the ground. When your kids are are older, they
get ticketed for littering and thowing garbage where it doesn't belong.
Should society just accept that and say that it is ok because the parents of the
children taught them that it was ok?
Hammer,Help us out. Who said "Steal"?I did a search
on the article and didn't find the word, and searched the comments and only
found it in your comment (3 times). Did somebody really say that... or was
that just a strawman?Wish I knew who you were addressing with that
comment and the context of the comment you were referring too.I
think the rhetoric is high enough without pretending people said things that
weren't even said.And those who think children should never
suffer for bad decisions their parents made (like bringing them to the USA
illegally)... Don't the innocent children of any father who's sent
to prison for making bad decisions suffer for his bad decision?I'm just saying... life isn't always 100% fair. Not even for
Dreamers.Parents need to think about the impact of their actions (on their
One man's dream is another man's nightmare.
I’m confused about who you are talking about when you say steal? What did
their parents steal? Most were invited here by our farmers and businesses. Most
of them were running away from a corrupt gang ridden government and a bad
economy with no hope for their family’s future. Most of them have strong
work histories while they were here. Adding biases to the debate about
what needs to happen won’t fix the problem. Most of them did not steal
anything. Most of them are good people who came here seeking opportunity and a
better environment and hope for the future. Small minorities of them cause
problems, and it has grown some because of the illegitimacy rate among young
mothers. But that could be argued was caused because we continue to punish dream
act kids and because we are failing to find some status that is enforceable but
humane for illegal aliens.
"Dreamers"... so that's what we call them now. That's OK. As
long as we all know the politically correct terminology to use.I
wonder it the CBO estimated the number of votes Democrats would get from making
all the "Dreamers" citizens?I wonder how many Dreamers will
be paying net income taxes (and not just join the percentage of Americans that
is quickly becoming the majority, who get more in refunds than they pay in
income taxes)?One political science theory I've heard is...
once the majority of Americans pay no Income Taxes (or get more in refunds than
they payed)... Democrats can pass as many tax increases on the remaining tax
payers as they want... because they can assure the majority of the voters that
THEY will not be affected by the proposed tax hike. The theory being... if you
pay no taxes... what motivation do you have to reject a tax hike on somebody
else?Won't that be nice.
I could support it if the requirement was to serve in the military, where they
are GIVING to the country their parents stole from, but NOT taxpayer funded
college, where they are still TAKING from the country their parents stole from.
@VickiBF-1 and J-1 visas are very restrictive and are mainly for
specific programs which universities need filled. Students can only work if
they are in an approved program. Also it doesn’t cover those who want to
start their own business or work in a trade program or start working after high
school. Also if they are approved for J-1 or f-1 status they cannot get a green
card until they go home for 2 years.Our current immigration laws do not
cover the majority of these dreamers and that is why they don’t use that
"The Congressional Budget Office has estimated if all 1.7 million were
permitted to participate in the U.S. economy, it would result in revenue of more
than $2 billion annually, mainly from income..."Too funny!Illegals were supposed to take the jobs Americans won't do... which
means doing menial work such as picking fruit and making motel beds. These
workers rarely make enough to pay income taxes and, in fact, usually are
eligible for refundable credits such as EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit).Furthermore, offering amnesty to some, such as dreamers, and not others
is unconstitutional under the 'Equal Protection' clause.If
we're going to change the law regarding illegal immigration from illegal to
legal, we perhaps should think about changing the law to make bank robbing,
child molesting, etc., legal as well... so they could return to making wages and
paying taxes. Makes just as much sense.Oh, and if we legalize the
current batch of Dreamers, what we gonna do when the next wave arrives? And the
wave after that, ad infinitum. Better to stop the flow now by enforcing our
current, very adequate immigration laws... including E-Verify
Commendations to the House of Representatives for standing fast on this issue.
Each facet of the illegal immigration issue should be thoroughly discussed and
understood before passage, unlike the Senate bill that was pushed through much
like the earlier Obamacare bill only later to find the many, many costly and
unfair flaws it contained.
Punishing them would be banning them from ever receiving citizenship. Rewarding
them for criminal activity of their parents is wrong also. There has been a
program that lets them return home, and come back on a student visa at 18 (moved
to front of the line). It makes them take the responsibility of their own
dreams, just like Americans. If they don't follow the program, at 19 they
become as illegal as their parents. The Dream act is a backdoor
amnesty, they would be eligible to sponsor extended families. It would encompass
most of the 11 million here illegally.