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Comments about ‘Letters: Two-way bigotry’

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Published: Monday, Aug. 5 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Will Kane
Salt Lake City USA, UT

Be assured, it most certainly does run both ways. Some can't see this though because of their own strong bias (bigotry). Some of the most hateful comments I read in the media on this whole issue come from those promoting "gay rights", whatever those really are. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

Clearly, two-way bigotry.

One side utilizes the machinations of government to deny people the constitutionally-protected fundamental right to marry the person they love.

The other side "punishes this individual" by electing not to spend ten bucks on a movie.

Yeah, these two forms of "bigotry" are 100% in the same ballpark; great comparison.

Furry1993
Ogden, UT

Card has every right to hold and express his opinion. He does NOT have the right to escape the consequences of holding and expressing his opinion. He is reaping the consequences of his actions.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

This whole thing just makes me want to go "huh". Government did not invent, not create the institution of marriage. In fact, even in the most lawless parts of the world, marriage is still an institution that permeates diverse societies and cultures world wide. A governments "right" to determine who marries who is tenuous at best... since the act of falling in love, and living with a "partner" hardly requires permission from any government. The notion that a government has the right to determine issues of the heart are frightening at best.

People "connecting" today, to create informal "families" unfortunately has become a norm, where living together is an accepted alternative to marriage is a much larger threat to the family. If you want to get up in arms about an issue... it is shaking up... not gays as the biggest issue.

What gays do or don't do has far less to do with the fall of the family then what straight people do outside the bounds of marriage. Lets focus more on really reinforcing families, then chasing rainbows.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

I don't see it as two way bigotry so much as reaping what you sow. All gays don't hate Orson Scott Card. But if you politicize your views publicly then there are consequences to your "free speech," something we all know.
All gays didn't target OSC. But the extreme element did, and those that are active in politics. They are and extreme element just as Westboro is an extreme Christian element.

Lets classify people how they really are, and not just lay out blanket statements, Gays did this, or Mormons did that. All Mormons are not the same. All Gays are not the same. Lets stop acting like they are.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Homosexual,
Homophobe.

Yes, I guess you could call it a sort of Two-way bigotry.

BTW -
I'm curious.

Orson Scott Card is Social-Economic Liberal, and has been pasted many a time here in the Deseret News over the years for his opinions..

How is it conservatives rally behind him on this issue,
yet beat him to a pulp on all the others?

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"Card writing in 1990, “Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.”

"In the Mormon Times in 2009, he wrote, “Married people attempting to raise children with the hope that they, in turn, will be reproductively successful, have every reason to oppose the normalization of homosexual unions.”

How is Card "hurt" personally and individually by same-sex marriage?

Card has had a public platform to express his views to deny basic rights as defined in the Supreme Court's decision in Loving v.Virginia stating that to deny the "fundamental freedom" of marriage "on so unsupportable a basis" as race "is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law."

Therefore, others may use a public platform in an attempt to deny Card financial benefits.

isrred
South Jordan, UT

Card does not have a right to my money. I have the right to spend that money how I see fit and using any criteria that I choose. If I choose to "punish him" economically and financially for his bigoted views, that is my right to not spend money on his product. That is the free market that you conservative folks are always blathering about.

Really???
Kearns, UT

Card's personal views stopped being personal when he joined NOM's board of directors. His views stopped being personal when he wrote articles, spoke publicly, and contributed money to fight the legalization of gay marriage. He chose to be public about his views, and the public has a right to choose whether or not they attend a movie based on one of his novels.

KJB1
Eugene, OR

So when conservatives speak their minds and try to live their beliefs, they're brave patriots defending freedom. When liberals do the same, they're a bunch of bigots who want to squash personal expression and are anti-God to boot.

Duly noted.

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

It is kind of hard for the side that has the rights the other side wants to claim they are the victims of bigotry.

It's like a slave owner telling his slaves they need to be respectful and tolerant of views that he should be allowed to own other human beings.

If you want to fight against same-sex marriage, you are well within your right, but you have lost the moral high ground to play the victim card.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

The solution is simple. Boycott every business where people with whom you disagree work. Tell those business owners that you will take your business elsewhere.

Orson Scott Card has the right to say anything that he wants to say. Those who disagree with him have every right to boycott. But, it is ludicrous to think that 3% of the population would not think of the damage to themselves and to their cause when they make threats about an individual.

Let's do the math. If 97% of the population boycotted every business where people in that business held different viewpoints than their own, who would cry "uncle" first?

Orson Scott Card will not suffer if every gay activist in America boycotts Ender's Game, but would Hollywood survive if 97% of the population boycotted every film where a gay activist or sympathiser produced, promotoed or starred in a movie?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

" upheld the right of the individual states to define marriage. The return of the Propostion 8 case to the lower court further upheld this decision. "

Prop 8 was ruled to not have standing and so the lower FEDERAL courts' verdict is the one that goes through. That's not leaving it to the state.

george of the jungle
goshen, UT

The system works, when the system is called "reciprocity". So if your good to Mamma, she'll be good to you. Intention matter.

JoeCapitalist2
Orem, UT

Midvaliean: "All gays didn't target OSC. But the extreme element did, and those that are active in politics. They are and extreme element just as Westboro is an extreme Christian element."

And I suppose that the gay community at large thinks that their opinions and tactics are as disgusting as what the Christian community thinks of the Westboro Church's actions. Right?

I haven't heard any condemnation from the likes of atl134, truthseeker, Furry1993, KJB1, or others for these kinds of tactics, only support.

Judging by the comments so far, I see that the "pro-gay" activists are well represented here. They flood forums like this one with their message to give the impression that their point of view is much more popular than it really is among the population at large.

glendenbg
Salt Lake City, UT

This letter deserves a better fisking than 200 words allows.

The call to boycott Ender's Game was not over Card's views in marriage; he has a long and documented history of virulent anti-gay statements, including wanting to make it illegal to be gay, and of using his money to support campaigns against gay persons. Card wants to make it illegal to be gay and now he is whining that gay people are not going to give him their money.

The letter misrepresents the Supreme Court decisions on both DOMA and Prop 8. Prop 8 was found unconstitutional by both lower courts that heard the case. The Court decision essentially upheld that broader ruling. On DOMA, the court struck down the federal ban on recognizing legally performed same sex marriages.

The call for a boycott hopes to raise awareness of Card's activities and statements, to make people aware of his truly vicious opinions. If you want an idea of the consequences of the actions he has supported in the past, look at Russia today.

Copy Cat
Murray, UT

"Card does not have a right to my money."

So does that mean that homosexual couples don't have a right to force someone to give them services? (See 13th amendment, prohibiting slavery)

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I know for a fact that Mormons don't hate gay people. I know lots of Mormon families that have gay family members and we love them. Mormons just don't approve of redefining "Marriage" or condone some behaviors associated with same sex attraction.

It's a basic tenant of the gospel that every human spirit is litterally related to God (regardless of beliefs, how they live, or sexual orientation). So it would make no sense to hate someone because of their sexual orientation or any trait, they are still litterally spirit children of the same father (and therefor the same family).

But I can tell many LGBT leaders do "hate" Mormons.

I was surfing channels one Saturday and came accross a documentary on the LDS church and decided to watch it to see what other people think of us. It was INCREDIBLY hate-filled, and quickly became evident it was produced by the LGBT community. It was so full of lies and negativity I eventually had to turn it off. I checked to see what channel it was on, and noticed that it ran like every 3 hours on that channel for days.'

Continued...

Tekakaromatagi
Dammam, Saudi Arabia

People have the right to boycott OSC for his views.

Having said that the hypocrisy of those who promote gay rights is apparent. For 20 years they've pushed the idea of tolerance for diversity and then as soon as people show up that disagree with them they try to bully them into silence.

Same sex marriage is the new McCarthyism.

Gays aren't being denied their rights to marry. They can marry anyone of the opposite gender just everyone else. No one would object if two bisexuals of the opposite gender decided to marry or if a gay man and a lesbian woman wanted to marry for whatever reason.

Marriage is society's way to promote the idea that children have the right to a father and a mother and that men should be responsible for their reproductive actions. Promoting traditional marriage is a powerful tool to fight poverty which is caused by out of wedlock births. That the man and woman love each other is wonderful, but the point of marriage, at the end of the day is less about validating romantic love and more about promoting responsible procreation.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Prop 8 was found to be unconstitutional, and the USSC declined to hear an appeal because those seeking the appeal lacked the proper legal status to do so. That's not remotely the same thing as saying that the USSC tossed the issue of same-sex marriage back to the states.

I pay money all the time for products and services that I know are provided by employees with whom I disagree. The nature of the world is such that it's inevitable that we do business with people who's beliefs we find objectionable.

But if the _owner_ of the brand makes it a point to work overtly to deny rights to a minority, I reserve the right to decline an invitation to help enrich that person. I'm not in any way trying to restrict Card's right to express opinions with which I disagree, but I am refusing to let him do so with my help.

Consider: If a popular author took a leadership position in organizations that sought to discriminate against Mormons, and one of that author's books had just been made into a major Hollywood movie, what would you do?

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