Some say Bradley Manning deserves to be punished for revealing wrongdoing on the
part of the government. Perhaps, but who will punish those in the government who
perpetrated those wrongs? My guess is: no one. All the focus has been placed on
PFC Manning in an effort to divert attention away from the real culprit, the
government.We are a nation of laws. That is what makes our nation
stand apart from so many others. Yet if our government cannot be held
accountable to those same laws, it does not deserve to stand. And if those
responsible for the acts PFC Manning revealed cannot be brought to justice
because they are hiding behind a wall of secrecy, then Bradley Manning's
punishment should be limited to time already served - not because he is
innocent, but because our government has failed both him and us and does not
deserve the right to impose punishment."When the people fear
their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there
is liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson
To "JimInSLC" you are only partially right. Bush did cancel his trip to
Switzerland in 2011, but it wasn't because of the government there vowing
to prosecute him for anyting. He cancelled because he didn't want the
people of Switzerland to have to deal with riots and protests by leftist
groups.See "Bush Cancels Visit To Switzerland Due To Threat Of
Torture Prosecution, Rights Groups Say" from Reuters.
@ lost in DC, If torture is illegal, and waterboarding is torture, the
authorization of waterboarding is illegal. Because the US is not prosecuting
does not make it legal.I did not point out the fact that other
countries are willing to prosecute merely as an argument that it is illegal
there and not in the US, but that there are some countries apparently not afraid
to uphold the law regardless of the level of the accused.Bush had to
cancel a trip to Switzerland in 2011 for this reason.
Chymest,OK, so what international court has charged them for violations of
the Geneva Convention?What about BO and his drone strikes? Should
you not then be DEMANDING he be tried for war crimes? he ordered hits on US
citizens without due process, don't even need to go to an international
court or the GC for that. Where is your outrage and umbridge? or do you only
complain about repubs?
To "The Skeptical Chymist" you realize that the Geneva Convention
applies to soldiers of an enemy army. It does not apply to mercanaries or
terrorists. Yes torture is unpleasant, but in this case is still legal because
these were mercanaries or terrorists, and do not qualify for the legal
protections of the Geneva Convention.Try again.
@lost in DC and @procuradorfiscalThe supremacy clause of the
constitution states: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States
which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall
be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of
the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the
constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding."This makes the Geneva Convention part of the supreme law of the land. It is
US law. The US is required to prohibit:"violence to life and
person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and
torture" and "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating
and degrading treatment" (quoted from the Geneva Convention)Maybe including Rove was a mistake, but I still claim that Bush, Cheney, and
Yoo should be prosecuted for crimes under the Geneva Convention, specifically
for ordering detainees to be subjected to cruel treatment and torture (under
Thanks for reminding me why I despise the GOP as much as I despise the liberals.
JiminSLCSo you admit there are no US laws those you despise have
violated, and you ahve to resort to some unnamed foreign countries to back up
the claims. Well guess what, there are a lot of things we can do
here that are illegal in places the dems try to emulate, like complain about the
incompetence in the current leaders.
@RedShirt - Bush and Cheney are guilty of war crimes for approving of torture,
ie waterboarding. There are some countries in which they are wanted for war
crimes and if they happen to go there, will be arrested. When Obama is no
longer president, he can expect the same, as the groups that called for Bush
plan to call for Obama for his use of drones.Manning, according to
the Geneva Convention had an obligation to report war crimes, which he saw in
the helicopter attack of civilians, and the subsequent rescuers in Iraq.His oath of enlistment was to defend the constitution against enemies,
foreign and domestic. What happens when the domestic enemies are the very ones
that hold the power, and you are a lowly Private?Pvt. Mannings
biggest mistake was to think that the American people would be outraged by what
they saw and demand changes.It is ironic that we have a war on
terror, and America is the biggest terrorist, the largest supplier of weapons
procuradorfiscalHave you listened to any of those old Hitler
speeches lately? It certainly sounds like you have.
procuradorfiscalYour talking just like a brownshirt. So do you think
the killing of unarmed civilians and children over in Iraq in our name is
justifiable? really? If elements of the military were planning to
nuke an American city I bet you wouldn't be against somebody whistleblowing
then. This mentality of people like you thinking that Iraqi
civilians and children don't matter and that they are 2/3 of a human being
just totally make me ill.
To "The Skeptical Chymist" what laws did Bush, Cheney, John Yoo, or Rove
break? Your ilk has been calling for them to be arrested, but has yet to figure
out what laws were broken. Just because you disagree with their decisions that
does not mean that they broke any laws.To "Ajax" the Army,
Navy, Airforce, and Marines have been able to declare things secret and keep
them out of the public view since this nation was born. How they classify a
document is not arbitrary, but has a strict set of guidelines to determine its
classification.The question is did Manning realize the potential
deaths due to leaking that information?
For those lauding the exposure of excesses at war please be advised that first
and foremost war is about killing in the most terrifying and chaotic of
circumstances. Atrocities are what combat soldiers one side and the other do.
Nothing is more damaging to the soul. If that bothers you, consider greater
discretion in the glorification of war as a noble and heroic pursuit wrapped in
Re: "Bradley Manning will spend many, many years in prison . . . ."And, rightfully so.He violated the law, his oath as a
soldier, the trust placed in him, and every concept of decency and morality to
stroke his own fragile ego.His actions are very, very similar, in
both cause and intended effect, to those of Benedict Arnold.His
punishment must be severe in the extreme, to serve as a significant incentive to
rectitude for WAY too many other smug, self-important, amoral traitors out
there. They've been taught by cynical liberal parents, teachers, and
political leaders, and have foolishly come to believe, that their smugly,
self-assessed "superior" intelligence and their disaffection with
American institutions, somehow entitle them to destroy the Nation.A
long, long sentence is necessary to send the opposite, more accurate message.
Since when does a private in the U.S. Army get to arbitrarily decide what
classified military documents should best be openly broadcast worldwide?
Altruism as an excuse is further evidence of a disturbing loss of perspective.
Protecting the government secrets is so very easy. Just put them with
Obama's college transcripts, neither will ever see the light of day!
How on earth are we supposed to hold the government accountable without the
information we need? The government often seems to keep secrets, not because
it's sensitive information that affects national security, but to cover up
things to prevent accountability. This is a sad day indeed.
Bradley Manning will spend many, many years in prison after already being
tortured by 11 months in solitary confinement 23 hours a day.George
W. Bush, Dick Cheney, John Yoo, and Karl Rove walk free.Justice in
America? I think not.
Convicted on spying on the American Government for the American Public. Sad day.