@ Eric Samuelson- if we need jobs and economic growth then why doesn't the
President approve the Keystone pipeline?
No no no no no no no. The debt is NOT the major issue we need to deal with
right now. Right now, we need jobs, we need economic growth, we need more
stimulus. When we have full employment, then it would be time to worry about
the deficit. Cutting spending pulls money out of the economy, which reduces tax
revenues, which makes the debt worse. Stimulus now--debt reduction LATER.
None are so blind as those who will not see.
rew:Ernest T. Bass"Simply not true"?Prove it
Ernest! I gave facts - you provided nothing but fact-less rants which is typical
of progressive liberals. Everything I stated is FACT based - perhaps a 10 minute
review of history on Google would be a good start for you my friend. The cost of
Obamacare I gave is correct ...check it.The recovery that Reagan created from
the dreadful Carters years is historical fact...check it. Your credibility would
hold some water if you actually tried to back up your opinions with actual facts
rather than emotional hear say.
re:Ultra Bob"Communism might be a great government if it had
incorruptible leaders"What in the world are you talking about??
Communism a great government? Talk to ANYONE who has escaped from the iron
curtain of Communism about how "great" this system was for them. Talk to
them about how they had NO bill of rights - no freedom of religion + no
opportunity to escape poverty + no opportunity to choose a career for themselves
or their children and the nightmarish list goes on and on. Communism is indeed
an "evil empire" as Reagan and others correctly stated (Pres Ezra Taft
Benson). Communism isn't evil just because of corrupt leaders but the very
foundation principles is opposite to every single founding principle of our
constitution. The foundation of Communism is flatly evil - atheism+no personal
liberty are the two pillars that this satanic ideology is built upon and make no
mistake ...it is SATANIC!! You need a good review of history my friend!!
@ so-called "patriot"That is simply not true. Do some objective
I think at this point I am basically a Conservative ready to throw in the towel.
As much as I despise unnecessary and basically unlawful cabinet departments like
Energy, Education, HHS etc the fact is we have them and they are never going
away. I don't blame politicians- I blame the citizenry. Because what's
destroying our finances is not discretionary spending but entitlements and an
unwillingness to pay for them. The fact is everyone seems to want to save
"safety net" programs but no one wants to pay for them. The fact is,
everyone regardless of income should be paying 15 to 20% of their income to the
Federal Government to sustain the spending that people have evidently voted for
over the past decades. Americans seem to have no problem with Barack Obama or
George W Bush rolling around in 30 car motorcades everywhere they go while the
Country borrows a dollar for every two it spends. Put your money where your vote
is and pay for it.
2 bits says “I don't know of a single Socialist government that
hasn't lead to great suffering and economic stagnation for the
masses”.I ask the question: Do you know of any government
failure that didn’t lead to great suffering and economic stagnation for
the masses?Government failures from internal causes, not from
foreign, are always the fault of financial corruption of the leaders themselves
or the people who control the leaders. The type of government
doesn’t matter, Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, religious, totalitarian,
royal all eventually succumb to the sickness of financial corruption. Communism might be a great government if it had incorruptible leaders. But
there are no incorruptible men or women in the world.
How can anyone accept social security; when they have left so much debt for
their children and grandchildren?
re:Ernest T. BassHa!! Ernest - do have any idea how much Obamacare
costs? It was projected initially at 800 billion and now it is well on its way
to 3 trillion and growing. It is unworkable and even Democrat's are calling
it a train wreck. Where does that money come from Ernest? Recall also Ernest
what interest rates were when your second favorite president was in office
(Jimmy Carter)...they were 21% ++. Inflation was equally out of control and so
was unemployment. Now - remember the commercial "It is morning in America
again". Yes Ernest that is the commercial that Reagan ran for reelection and
it earned him a land slide victory. The reason?? Reagan brought America back
from financial death that your Democrats created under Carter and he did it by
CUTTING what the federal government takes from each one of us allowing small
business to find life again. Progressives like yourself hate it when big brother
government isn't gobbling up as much new tax revenue as possible. That
isn't America Ernest. You would feel more comfortable in socialist Europe
where income taxes are set at 75%.
@2 bits "We need to quit bickering about which party's responsible for
it... and put away our partisan banners and start DOING something!"Exactly right. It's really up to us. We need to instill the fear in every
member of Congress that, if they don't balance the budget, they are coming
home. Even the ones we voted for originally. Then we need to follow through.
The two biggest factors in the debt are Bush's wars and Bush's
(started by Reagan) tax cuts.
RE: 2 bits "Runaway inflation in order to pump up the currency to cheeply
pay of the national debt is what scares me most." This is a very valid
concern. When I call for socialism I call for a system where we agree to
support the elderly in their last years - that's all. Such can be done
only under a socialist paradigm. The capitalist paradigm calls for the elderly
to die ASAP.Contrary to the notion that socialism is weak and
inefficient, consider the Soviet Union. It accomplished in 20 years what it
took capitalism to accomplish in 200 years. Of course the problem with soviet
socialism was the Stalinist brutality. This we must not have. We
have to be thinking collectively to avert the looming disaster.
"I'd like to add that I believe that a massive amount of inflation may
well be in the works too." Nonsense. The recession is so firmly
established that the massive inflation you fear is no where in sight. The
RECESSION is the immediate emergency, not the debt.
IMO anybody who tells you "the National Debt is no longer a problem"...
has been drinking to much partisan coolaid.The problem with the
debt, and why we'll never do anything about it, is... There is always ~50%
of the country that thinks the debt is fine (because their party is in control).
The faithful Republicans did it when Bush was in office (and running up the
debt). And the Democrats do it today (while Obama is running up the debt).But if it was/is a problem when the OTHER party is in power... it
doesn't cease to be a problem when your party is in power and the debt is
just LARGER. It's the size of the debt that's the
problem people! Not the party that's responsible for it!We
need to quit bickering about which party's responsible for it... and put
away our partsan banners and start DOING something!
Tyler D:I agree with much of what you say, but I have to disagree
with your assessment of Keynesian economics. Why? Because it has never really
been tried. Keynes advocated deficit spending during recession but also
increasing taxes during expansion so that a surplus can be built to draw upon
during economic downturns. We've been fairly consistent in applying
Keynesian deficit spending during recessions, but neither party has the guts to
raise taxes during economic expansion. This is a recipe for failure. The GOP, of
course, is so ideologically bound to Grover Norquist that it cannot even think
of exercising common sense. This is why I can never vote for another Republicant
for Congress. Not until the GOP stops performing prefrontal lobotomies on itself
in its effort to achieve ideological purity.
marxist,The problem with your call for a Socialist alternative is... from
all my studying of history, I don't know of a single Socialist government
that hasn't lead to great suffering and economic stagnation for the
masses.If you want the working conditions and the pay of a Chinese
worker, or North Korean citizen, or a Russion peasant... by all means call for
the Socialist solution!But if you want the prosperity enjoyed by the
best engine for economic success in the world... vote for Capitalism. Even
though there is some trickle down to Capitalism.... it still provides the most
opportunity for people to move up economically, and it's still better than
the Socialist solution.
"So, if you who rely on social security and medicare get ready to move in
with your kids and simply die sooner than necessary due to substandard or
nonexistent medical care." This is a societal choice. The wealth of the
United States is massively concentrated to the top 1% of 1%. Don't forget
that in your calculations. But I applaud your brutal honesty. Rather than tax
the top 1% of 1% we would rather consign the elderly to early death. It's time for a socialist alternative, and it cannot wait.
Runaway inflation in order to pump up the currency to cheeply pay of the
national debt is what scares me most.That would mean that no matter
how hard I've worked all my life... I'm wiped out.I've been saving for retirement all my life (believing SS will not be
there). But if we keep printing money and deluting the money currently in
circulation (AKA economic easing) and inflation eventually takes off (to allow
the government to pay it's debts with artificially inflated dollars)...
that just wipes out my savings. It doesn't reduce what I have in my
account, but it makes those dollars I have put in there all my life relatively
useless in retirement. For example... If we have inflation like
many countries have had... it could take a million dollars to buy what a single
dollar used to buy. So even if I was able to put away a million dollars during
my working life... I couldn't even buy a big mac when I retire.That's the big problem for retirees. Not Social Security going away.
But their lifes savings being wiped out by the dollars they saved becoming
According to the CBO in their June 2011 report, by the year 2015 payments for
Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare and debt interest will exceed all federal
revenues. We have a choice. We can either reform entitlements or face financial
disaster. That disaster will come in the form of runaway inflation, economic
recession and/or skyrocketing interest rates. For those of you who remember,
stagflation will seem like a picnic, compared to what is coming. So, if you who
rely on social security and medicare get ready to move in with your kids and
simply die sooner than necessary due to substandard or nonexistent medical care.
If you are young, invest in real assets that will increase in value with
inflation, while any loans against them diminish in real terms, and pray that
you don't get laid off.
PatriotI'd like to add that I believe that a massive amount of
inflation may well be in the works too, which will create a huge economic
problem for everyone. And you rightly point out that when it comes to
who's to blame, the 4th estate, which largely has been covering for Obama,
as well as cheerleading, will blame the Republicans, starting with Reagan.
The payroll tax was just increased massively. This is an increased burden on
middle America. Both of the major parties have participated in this. In
addition to this middle America supports high sales taxes. A proposal, which I
support, would impose a transactions tax, that is a tax on financial
transactions - speculation. This could significantly enhance revenues but is
probably DOA because financial interests control congress and the media such as
no one cares about the national debt - no one - until it effects them personally
and that day is coming fast. The first personal effect from the debt will be the
BIG increase of interest rates - rates to buy a car or a home. When those rates
sky rocket then people will wake up but not until. Politicians will start the
blame game and especially the Democrat's who traditionally spend spend
spend and then spend some more and then attack anyone who tries to cut spending
and brand them as not caring. Those who lend to us are going to reach a point
where they lower our credit rating and increase the percent rate at which they
lend to us. Those increased rates will be passed right on along to you and me.
Wait until home loans return to the Carter years of 21% and the same for car
loans....then you will see people wake up but by then it will be too little too
late to do anything about it. Barack will blame others and his media will cover
for him..same ole same ole.
Tyler D,Good summary (unfortunately).
I think more tax breaks for the rich, more deregulation, the cutting of food
stamps, and maybe another war will fix this problem!
I have little faith in either side on this issue.On the one side, we
have a party that believes in full on Keynesian economics and the multiplier
effect of government spending, which is true at times but creates more problems
than it solves if employed more than sparingly.On the other side is
the party of hypocrites who say they are concerned with the debt but have done
everything in their power for more than a decade to “starve the
beast” of government in the secret hope of creating a Greece style debt
crisis so they can swoop in and “save the day” by shrinking
government and returning us to the Gilded Age. Most Americans are
generally content with the level of government they have (the need to reduce the
cost of healthcare notwithstanding); they just want it to work better, more
efficiently and not ask our grandchildren to pay for it.But thanks
to gerrymandering, the politicians most Americans want don’t get elected
and so we’re left watching from the sidelines while these competing
ideologies play poker with our future.
Much like the collapse of Detroit and Greece, putting aside corruption and
incompetence, financial reality is a difficult problem that most politicians
refuse to address. Politicians generally have re-election as their first
priority. Sound economic policy comes in a distant second. Fiscal planners count
on historical models such as an expanding economy and inflation to minimize the
national debt without realizing that times may have changed. As the disclaimer
says when investing; Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
Hatch is in a position to actually ACT on this problem. Not because of his
assignment in Congres... but because he is not seeking re-election. But any
politician who's seeking re-election can't TOUCH this problem.
That's the sad fact of life in Congress. Every member of Congress knows
this is the proverbial "third-rail" for Congress. You touch it... you
die.Increasing budget regularly is the neccessary cost to keep
Democrats in office. Democrats complain about Republicans having a bigger
campaign warchest... but they use the whole national budget as their warchest.
They routinely buy votes using entitlment programs (which are part of the
budget) to buy votes of special interest groups that NEED those entitlements,
and think they can't live without them, so these groups feel required to
vote for nothing but Democrats every election.Republicans are no
better. They TALK about cutting the budget on the campaign trail, but when they
get in Washington they learn the third-rail-rule and decide they want to get
re-elected more than they want to save the country... so they just vote
"yes" when asked to increase the budget.
accountability and consequence. Is there any for these guys that throw money at
problems and no solutions.
"I'll cut the deficit by half by the end of my first term." BHOOne of the first of his many lies. He is doing everything he can to
destroy American starting with driving it into bankruptcy with his reckless