Don't see any separation happening... It has "anti-trust" written
all over it... In fact, I think before long (even with the way things are
running today)that Congress will step in and possibly even mandate conference
alignment that would give all schools an equal shot at a national
I have no problem with a $2000 stipend if the schools can afford it. Many
comments sounds like you are paying the players, what this really is, is money
for room, board and other living expenses which is currently not covered in the
athletic scholarships. Many academic scholarships, including the one I went to
school on, include some living allowances. I understand that some smaller
schools can't afford it for all their student athletes, in fact some larger
schools can't either, but why not make it optional? Then schools can chose
if they want to do stipends. As long as they follow Title IX and not screw
women's sports in favor of the powerful football dollar, I say go for it if
you want to.In the Utah / BYU banter here, I think both schools can
afford the stipend, USU might only be able to afford a partial stipend, if at
If there is ever a new division created for the college football elite I like
BYU's chances in getting an invite (Utah should also be in). I would think
the criteria would include factors like football success (i.e. Sagarin ranking),
marketability (i.e. t.v. markets and fan loyalty), and profitability.Since 2006, BYU’s lowest Sagarin ranking was #45 (2010), and
they’ve averaged a #26 ranking with three top 20 finishes and a 6-1 bowl
record. The University of Utah has also done well, averaging a Sagarin ranking
of #34 over that span and winning all six of their bowl games. According to a study published in the N.Y. Times, BYU has the 43rd largest
fanbase in college football (710k), while Utah has the 67th largest (351k). SLC
is the 33rd largest television market (917k viewers) ahead of cities like Cincy,
San Antonio, and Las Vegas. BYU's football team has operating
expenses of $15m and total revenue of #22.4m for a surplus of $7.4m. Utah
spends $14.8m, makes $20.8m, for a surplus of $6m. Looking at this
criteria both BYU and Utah would be shoe-ins.
WiscougarfanSunday play would also be a non-issue. There's no
way college football would want to lock horns with the NFL in a playoff
situation and there's absolutely no reason why BYU would ever need to play
a regular season game on Sunday.------------Silent
Lurker"Over the past few years BYU has lost to most of the
better teams on their schedule. Even your designated bottom feeder Utah has
owned you."BYU's lifetime winning percentage versus Top 25
- 21%Utah's lifetime winning percentage versus Top 25 - 16%Wins versus Top 25 since 2008:BYU: #16/#17 Utah State, #18/#18
UtahUtah: ur/#25 BYUWinning 2 of 3 games on fluke plays
doesn't prove anything.And lets not forget, Kyle has proven he
can lose to ANYBODY (see 10-loss UNLV and Colorado).The reason Utah
has so few 10+ win seasons in their history isn't SOS, the sad truth is, U
just haven't been very good, as proven by your paltry 5 AP Top 25 finishes
in your entire history.You need come out from under that crimson
bubble on the hill once in awhile in order to see reality.
Wouldn't that be absolutely hilarious? If it comes down to who can afford
to play at this point in time BYU is in and Utah is out. BYU can afford to foot
the bill to play with the big boys. They get all the money that comes from tv
contracts, endorsements, stadium revenue etc. They don't have to split it
in any percent with the other 8-11 teams in a conference.
Silent lurker"Take off your blue goggles and wake up."To what? An imaginary scenario where this is actually going to
happen?"Do you think the LDS Church will pick up the extra tab?
(stipends)"I was unaware that the LDS church is paying for
football at all. BYU is self sufficient in sports, just like many other church
entities like Deseret Industries and church welfare farms. If football can pay
for it, I can't see why the LDS church would drop it. Nor do I see any
evidence that this is a possibility."Do you believe God would
rather have a BYU football team in a upper division than have you help the under
privileged people of the world?"The nice part about the LDS
Church is that they seem to be able to do both. And for the most
part, people can do both. One can give fast offerings and by BYU football
tickets and also give money to those commercials on TV if they want.I believe that Wiscougarfan destroyed your the arguments.So yes, I
have no problem believing BYU would be IN in this imaginary scenario.
I have a solution. Let them form their own conference, but don's call it
Division 4. Call it minor league football. They will object to calling it
minor, but they have become nothing more than a minor league training ground for
the NFL. In fact, let the NFL oversee the whole mess. They can even pay their
players more than they are already being paid. All of the schools unlucky(?)
enough to not be included would reorganize under the NCAA and their players
could once again legitimately be called student athletes
Silent LurkerCottonwood Heights, UT"Do you believe God
would rather have a BYU football team in a upper division than have you help the
under privileged people of the world?"Well, yes. Seems to me
the the church is already doing a rather decent job of both. A lot
of y'all just aren't listening (reading) very well.This is
all about the M O N E Y. The Haves want to parlay what they have into More.
They don't want the Have Nots to have Less, they just want the Have Nots to
have less access to More.The fine point is, they propose that you
have to Pay to Play. Infante is suggesting that within the power conferences,
while the Rich currently subsidize the Poor, under a new system, they won't
want to.The irony is delicious. The mere suggestion that this
change could result in Utah = out and BYU = in has Utah fans in total denial.I'm not saying it's right, or that it's inevitable, just
that it's funny.
RE: Silent Lurker"I am amazed at the BYU fans that think they
will be included in a new division. Have you forgotten about the Sunday play
issue? The academic issues? Graduate programs? Research programs? Do you really
believe you will be accommodated on all of these?"Sunday play
may indeed be an issue. Graduate programs and research shouldn't, as this
is a football initiative, not a conference affiliation. If a "high
research" classification (like BYU has) was an issue than Baylor, Kansas
State, and Oklahoma State would also be on the outside looking in. If graduate
programs was a top priority, than Auburn, Boston College, Texas Tech, and
Arkansas can all forget about an invite.
I am amazed at the BYU fans that think they will be included in a new division.
Have you forgotten about the Sunday play issue? The academic issues? Graduate
programs? Research programs? Do you really believe you will be accommodated on
all of these? Do you think the LDS Church will pick up the extra tab? (stipends)
Do you believe God would rather have a BYU football team in a upper division
than have you help the under privileged people of the world?It is
much easier to win ten games when you are playing six or seven gimme games. BYU
has never played more than four BCS level teams in one year. Or do you think
your team could compete with a ten game schedule like most of the Power 5? Do
you really think you would get away with playing a schedule like the past two
years and the 2015 year? Even this years schedule is not up to BCS standards!
Over the past few years BYU has lost to most of the better teams on their
schedule. Even your designated bottom feeder Utah has owned you. Take off your
blue goggles and wake up.
It is a zero sum game, because there are not an unlimited amount of Division 1
players. This will hurt a lot of middle and lower tier schools in the PAC, SEC,
BIG, BIG 12, and even hurt upper tier schools in the ACC. Only a handful of
schools should want this, and a smaller handful of schools return any money from
football, because the costs of football are also a lot higher. If players need
to be paid so badly, they should allow kids to go pro earlier. If not those
handful of maybe 12 schools (probably less) can leave the NCAA and only play
What this will eventually come down to is money. Money is what is driving
college sports today. Which teams have the best market and which teams bring in
the most revenue. BYU will not be left out if this change ever happens because
they bring money and a nationwide audience. That is why ESPN partnered with BYU
in a broadcast deal. They understand it is a good market and a money maker. The
worldwide leader in sports is not stupid. If the ability to pay athletes
additional scholarship money to cover full cost of attendance is going to be the
measuring stick for this new "power conference" then BYU most certainly
will not be on the outside. They can afford it. Other teams in these power
conferences would struggle to do that.
Most of you on this board seem to get all of their info from, well, message
boards. The reason the big boys are looking to re-organize is they want to get
away from conference members who suck more out of the system than they could
contribute. Athletic programs who would lose money were it not for TV deals will
be in trouble unless they are winning regularly. This will be about
money,period. Those who think current membership guarantees anything are wrong.
That is what I was told, take it or leave it.
Since all of the big boys want 7 home games, IF this ever happens, schools like
Utah will end up playing all of their OOC games on the road - 5 home and 7 road,
or 4 home and 8 road, will become the norm for Utah.
This will never happen, but if it did, I can't wait to see these schools
fall on their faces. Really shallow schools like Florida and Ohio State pad
their schedules with cupcakes because their conference is too hard for the poor
babies. Get rid of those cupcakes and they will struggle. I would LOVE to see
@ Chris B"If byu had multiple undefeated seasons the past 10
years, multiple BCS bowls, multiple BCS wins, a bowl win over Alabama, multiple
top 5 finishes in the past 10 years....you'd have an invite too."What a silly standard to measure an invite. More than half of the teams
currently in the BCS conferences wouldn't make the cut with those
standards. More than half of the BCS teams never made it to a BCS bowl game let
alone multiple ones. Do you think Indiana, Duke, Iowa State, Northwestern,
Syracuse should remain in the BCS when they don't even meet those
standards? BYU is better than half of the teams currently in the BCS. Again,
Chris your not being objective. You emotional disdain for BYU is overcoming your
common sense. Do you really believe Duke, Indiana, Iowa State, Northwestern,
Purdue, or Washington State is better than BYU in football? If you believe that
than you really are delusional.
ekute"BYU could run the tables this year, have a magical season
and" nobody would care. "College football is just that way" since 2
years ago. lol.Again, thanks for proving my point.Meaning you would try not to care, and you'd be back on BYU boards for
some other reason.It is funny that utah "fans" claim that
Independence makes BYU obsolete. Despite overwhelming evidence of the
contrary.No, I am not going to write it all again. There are
hundreds of examples provided by BYU fans on every article for the past year.It boils down to a simple principle.Do you frame your teams
success ONLY as it relates to your rival, or do you see past your rival and see
success for success sake?Which one are you?I don't
care about the u. I don't read their articles. I don't follow the
team, at all. But don't mistake that with defending one of my teams from
people who can only frame their teams success in relation to BYU.
MyPerspectiveSalt Lake City, UTY Grad / Y DadYour time
would be better spent worrying about how byu would fit into the proposed
"new order" rather than fretting over your so called "have-nots in
the 5P." Washington St., Colorado, and Utah will be just fine as will
Illinois, Vanderbilt, and Iowa St. The "haves" will continue to
"have." Lets see, John Infante, an NCAA expert, posits the
theory, the AP thinks its credible enough to report it, but MyPerspective says
no way. Hmmmm, who to believe, who to believe?BYU brings $50
million to the table while Oregon, Stanford and USC subsidize my beloved Wazzu,
Colorado and Utah, and you're not going to even think about it?
ekuteUtah will never run the table again, never win a conference
championship, and never play in the playoffs. The Utes have been, and always
will be, PAC bottom dwellers - that's just the way it is for the Utes, in
every sport. LOL!
Who am I sir?Cottonwood Heights, UT@ YGrad/YDad"And
yet you keep devouring these nonsense stories..."If the
definition of "devouring" is to see the headline and possibly read the
comments then I am guilty."In other words, another well informed
Ute poster. "I read the headline, judged the entire article as an utter
waste of time, and took the time to tell everyone else my opinion, based on
"BYU could run the tables this year, have a magical season and" nobody
would care. "College football is just that way" since 2 years ago. lol.
Isn't money in sports derived from viewership? I don't understand why
the big conferences would want to drop thier viewership...? While their fans
comprise a majority of college football fans in the country, there are still
PLENTY of fans that are mainly interested in their school. If Utah State was in
a lower division, I wouldn't care as much about watching the higher league
because they have nothing to do with my school. If I want to see the best
athletes, I can watch the NFL. Sounds like a bad idea, and I doubt anything will
ever come of it.
Chris BUtah didn't "earn" anything; the Utes were
simply in the right place at the right time.It's obvious to any
intelligent fan that Colorado's years of mediocrity and Utah's
momentary flash in the pan success didn't have any influence whatsoever on
the PAC's decision to invite Colorado and Utah to join their conference.
All that the PAC really needed was a couple of warm bodies with
decent-sized television markets and the proper "cultural fit" to fill
out the roster so the PAC could play a conference championship game and increase
their television market.The Utes have already proven beyond any
doubt that as far as athletics and football are concerned, the Utes are in over
their heads - not a single win over a conference foe with a winning record and
bottom dwelling finishes in every PAC sport except for the Red Rocks.
Chris b"Know how we "overcame" the bcs issues we
didn't like?"OK so the local mob is shaking down businesses
in a certain part of town. A politician finds out about the corruption and
starts to make waves. He visits with his fellow politicians and decides that it
needs to be changed.the local mob can't get simply rid of the
problem overtly. So instead, they bring in the politician and make him a deal
that if he shuts up ad plays along, even help them to become respectable, they
will cut him in for a partial share.The politician, eager to be
accepted by the "big boy's" eagerly accepts it and then justifies
their position by singing the virtues of the mob's respectable side while
ignoring the criminal side.Earned it like that?Look, I
don't care if utah is in the pac 12. But don't come here to tell me
that utah is somehow superior because they are. That's an
argument waiting for a train that does not exist.
Chris b"We EARNED an invite."I have no problem
with the idea that utah earned an invite. They earned it to shut them up and
not make waves for the BCS. It takes nothing away from what BYU had done or is
doing.However,that is not what your posts is really about is it?You post only in RELATION to BYU and frame your success only in how you
can chase your on bias against BYU. It is NOT about utahs success, it is about
your perceived BYU failure.For example: "But your team
isn't capable of doing those things."Interesting that 10
years ago, no one thought utah could do it either, then did. So in your bias
opinion BYU can't, not ever...once again proves my point.BYU could run the tables this year, have a magical season and cause all
kinds of problems for the BCS. College football is just that way.But, in your eyes it can't happen. Which proves my point again.utah was invited, so what? in college football you are only as relevant as
your last season.Except for National Championships. They are
@StuFoo,Know how we "overcame" the bcs issues we didn't
like?We EARNED an invite.If byu had multiple undefeated
seasons the past 10 years, multiple BCS bowls, multiple BCS wins, a bowl win
over Alabama, multiple top 5 finishes in the past 10 years....you'd have an
invite too.But your team isn't capable of doing those
things.So you're still OUT!
MyPerspectiveMy apologies...Instead of ute trolls I
meant ute "fans" whose only purpose is to come to any article that is
remotely about BYU who feel that they need to explain to BYU fans why they are
irrelevant and not part of a "big boy" conference,regardless of what
ther article is actually about.Feel better?I don't
think it is a conspiracy theory at all. There are hundreds of examples where
corrupt organizations bribing people with justifiable power to shut up and not
be a problem anymore.If your argument is that the BCS is not
corrupt...I can't help you there. They are indefensible. What cracks me up is that when utah was on the outside in 2008 and
scorned by the system, they were some of the most outspoken (justifiably so)
people against the BCS...Five years later, the fall all over
themselves gushing about being accepted and part of the program they once hated
and felt was keeping them from what they earned.It is not a hard
jump to see that it worked.
Sorry - that was Riverton Cougar that said that, not Wiscougarfan.
I don't know why they don't just let players use their likenesses to
market their individual talents. If the players are marketable, why not let them
market themselves. Isn't that what capitalism is all about?
@mindgames:"they are putting together great schedules"Ya, a home and home against Middle Tennessee State, that's a great
schedule, if you are a byU "fan".@CougFaninTX:"If a student needs more spending money, they should get a job."It's not that simple. You need to read the "NCAA Rules
Regarding Jobs for Student-Athletes" and let us know what it means. It is
very convoluted. A lot of the NCAA rules are extremely arbitrary and
convoluted. That is why the Big 5 wants out.For me personally, I
don't like the idea of a break away. I think that would destroy college
football as we know it. However, it is not unprecedented. In 1978, the NCAA
split Division 1 football into 1-A and 1-AA pretty much dooming 1-AA schools
into relative obscurity.I would have to agree with Wiscougarfan, byU
would be included in the top 70. However, the PAC "bias" is a laughable
excuse.I hope the break away doesn't happen. But at the same
time, I hope the NCAA backs down quite a bit. They will need to to avoid the
oncoming insanity.Regardless of what happens - Go Utes!! Come on
Wiscougarfan"Fortunately for you there are years worth of posts here
in the DNews archives..."LOL! A great example of how long it
has been since byu was relevant. DN archives haven't existed long enough
to capture the talk of byu going to the Pac-10. Much of that occurred at church
before computers and comment boards. However, if you want an example of byu
fans thinking they belong in the Pac-12...go to the DN archives beginning June
10, 2012 and look for yourself.Riverton CougarI have no idea
where byu would end up in the proposed scenario and as far as I am concerned,
it's all speculation and hardly worth the time spent reading and commenting
on it. However, it would be wise to take note that up to this point, byu has,
indeed, been left out. STuFOOUte trolls? You have a nasty
penchant for calling people names. I believe this article pertains to college
football and you certainly do not own it. At any rate, you put forward quite a
conspiracy theory. Not even D. Harmon has proffered that one.
riverton cougar,I believe byu would get extended an opportunity to
get included.My inclination is that byu would remain true to their
"mission statement" and byu tv, and opt to stay independent...to the
dismay of their fans. It would be interesting to hear holmoe and bronco's
thoughts on this subject.
Chris B and other ute trolls who think BYU would be left out.Did you
actually read the article?read the last paragraph to understand why
BYU would not be left out.think about it...Why was utah
invited to the PAC 10?Because thy had a legitimate beef with a
corrupt system. (a system they continually think they busted, but was created
because BYU already broke it) They knew it then (even if their fans can't
figure it out now) governors and attorney generals as well as senators and
congressmen were getting involved. How did they solve it? utah invite to shut
them up.This is the MO of a corrupt system.BYU
wouldn't be the only team invited into the new system. It would depend
upon the politicians who would step into the frey to pander a vote.So to any ute fan still wagging the dog about being in and BYU will be left
Do you guys seriously believe that BYU wouldn't be considered one of the 70
best college football programs? Do you guys seriously think that these super
conferences (if they come to fruition) would pick a school like Colorado or
Vanderbilt over BYU? Even if Colorado has better academics than BYU, this is
pure football we're talking about for these super conferences. There is no
way BYU wouldn't be included in the top 70 schools in the nation, unless
there was a non-sports related bias (see PAC).
RE: MyPerspective"As for byu, 30 years of talking like their
invitation to the Pac-10 was immanent went down the tubes on June 10,
2010."I would like to see any evidence of BYU fans EVER saying
anything remotely close to that. Fortunately for you there are years worth of
posts here in the DNews archives, so this should be a simple task. Thanks in
@ YGrad/YDad"And yet you keep devouring these nonsense
stories..."If the definition of "devouring" is to see
the headline and possibly read the comments then I am guilty. I have never read
or opened one of these "articles". I shake my head in disbelief, laugh
at what I perceive the purpose of the article is, then possibly read the
comments to see what reaction any other sports fan might have.
Regardless of future changes to the college landscape, two things will be
constant:1. Utah will be IN2. byu and usu will be OUT!I LOVE my Pac 12 membership!Pretty soon byu and usu will by
Division II programs!LOL
The Utes paying their players to sit home and watch BYU play in bowl games each
year sounds about right.
Y Grad / Y DadYour time would be better spent worrying about how byu would
fit into the proposed "new order" rather than fretting over your so
called "have-nots in the 5P." Washington St., Colorado, and Utah will
be just fine as will Illinois, Vanderbilt, and Iowa St. The "haves"
will continue to "have." As for byu, 30 years of talking
like their invitation to the Pac-10 was immanent went down the tubes on June 10,
2010. A valuable experience that can be / should be applied going forward. byu
should know by now that there are no entitlements...their place with the elite
has to be earned.
mindgamesDnquixoteYou are two byu fans looking at this from
opposite ends of the spectrum. I wonder which of you has it right? If this
proposal comes to fruition in it's entirety or some hybrid form, I tend to
believe that the haves will continue to have and that the have nots will
continue likewise. The Power Conference will continue to be just that.There is a story on the SL Trib site that explores the split. Check it out.
Mindgames will be greatly disappointed if a super conference is indeed formed.
Like the rest of his post, his assertion that "...as an independent they are
putting together great schedules..." either lacks insight and common sense
or he hasn't yet seen the 2014 schedule Holmoe has in store for byu fans.
Who am I sir?Cottonwood Heights, UTAnd yet you keep devouring
these nonsense stories...-----------------So if this
really boils down to "pay to play", does anyone doubt that BYU would
ante up? And if the discussion turns to the new have-nots in the 5P, where might
that leave Washington State, Colorado... and Utah?
BYU haters will be quick to jump on board in support of this, as it could
potentially, in effect, ruin BYU football. But this could end up in a loosely
regulated free-for-all, reminiscent of Wall-Street, circa 2005. Be careful what
you wish for!!!
This split would be good news for BYU as they have positioned themselves outside
the "little 5" conferences. As an independent they are putting together
great schedules and will be the second independent to be part of the super
conference. Big worry for any of the bottom feeders of the major conferences.
Their performances will be evaluated as unappealing and unworthy to step into
the new "Super 70" division.Oh, and imagine the great
playoff system that they will put together for this division...sixteen of the
best (and it won't matter if 10 are from the old SEC it will just be the
best). Can't wait for BYU's schedule to have Auburn, Texas, Oklahoma,
Ohio State, Florida, Wisconsin, Oregon, Notre Dame, Arizona State and South
Carolina. Ten regular season games and then the 16-team playoffs.
Spectacular.Then the next year 10 more "Super 70" teams.
Wow.So much like the NFL where every week is a challenging game and
a 7-3 record will be recognized as a great achievement.Let's
get this thing done and make the next big move in college football.
This makes no sense to me. Many athletic programs, even in the Power 5 are not
financially solvent. They are subsidized by the taxpayers so they can pay
coaches multi-million dollar salaries. Mack Brown is the highest
paid government worker in Texas, and maybe in the nation. Does he add more
value than the President, or the Governor or a great teacher?As soon
as the entire athletic department is self sufficient and no longer needs
taxpayer subsidies, I'm all ears. But at that point I will argue, why is
an athlete more deserving of a $2,000 subsidy than a student on an educational
scholarship?If a student needs more spending money, they should get
Love the News. Burying the story, two days later than the Trib and SI broke it,
while providing greater access to the top 200? mustaches of former BYU athletes.
Journalism at its finest. (By the way, when I attended the Y it was a
violation to have facial hair, sandals, Bermuda shorts above the knees, long
hair, etc. etc. Can't wait for the next installment of the 21-40th
greatest tight ends, wide outs, running backs, long snappers, etc. D-news is to
be commended for its attempt to keep the Y sports relevant at least related to
This article and ESPN U are now calling the old BSC schools the "5 Power
conferences". If the 5P separate from the other conferences and
pay their players while the remaining schools don't, this will create even
more separation from a recruiting perspective.
Paying athletes when MOST schools running a football program are already losing
money sounds like a sure-fire way of sinking half of he so-called D4 programs
into having to be subsidized by the taxpayers or student bodies or folding most
of the other sports. It is far better to let students go pro then to create a
scheme like this.