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Published: Monday, July 22 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Really? Now it's the teachers' fault that Detroit is bankrupt? Not those at thr top who drove their car companies into the ground or over a cliff?

Once again, it's too easy to just blame unions, teachers, and police for Detroit's problems.

That's the problem when you merely listen to fox.

In reality, the problem goes much deeper and includes *gasp* extremely poor management from private sector leadership (you know, the infallible ones). The problems extend towards race issues, automization, and lack of diversification. You cannot build your entire economy based on one industry.

But go ahead Jim. Blaming the unions and the teachers on all of life's ills has always been an easy target for the GOP rather than look at the big picture. To ahead and promote your anti-government agenda and use these tragedies to your advantage. Lets continue to cut food stamps so people starve, slash taxes for the rich, wage wars for oil and big business, and keep feeding the rich what little the rest of us have.

Henderson
Orem, UT

Really? Praising Walmart?

For one, they are a completely different industry than cars.
Secondly, all their stuff is made in east Asia. And in sweat shops. Does that make you feel better jim?
Thirdly, and perhaps most relevant, most Walmart employees are on food stamps. So while your bash the government and praise Walmart please remember that Walmart is essentially saying; "Jim, please subsidize our salaries. Because we aren't going to pay our employees liveable wages. Please pay for our employees' food." Walmart passes on the cost onto all of us "whether we shop there or not. It's an ingenious plan. We all pay to subsidize walmart's existence. And folks like you praise them.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Why is Wal-Mart successful in the marketplace when they pay minimum wages compared to Smith's and other local business?

=========

Seriously?

WalMart?
Communist China's biggest client?

Perhaps it's because WalMart pays it's employees so low, that Taxpayers subsides their $138 Billion quarterly earnings via Government Food Stamps and Government Housing for it's employees?

and local businesses like Smith's doesn't.

Boulder Boy
Boulder City, NV

Prices are higher for food, gas and other stuff in Nevada because of Pension costs? Seriously? Try using facts next time - prices are higher in Nevada because it is in the middle of nowhere. All fuel has to be either trucked in or piped in over very long distances. Likewise for food and all other consumables. Property taxes are less than Utah, but it is true - our sales tax is higher - but only because we don't pay a state income tax. Nevada also suffers - and even more so than Utah - from the Federal Govt owning all of the land, making it non-taxable to support our schools.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Maverick,
you mean it was the car company execs that were running the city, not the elected officials?

The car company execs signed all the deals with the city's unions? Really?

you think it's fair to pay someone for 40-50 years (20 years working, 20-30 years retirement) for only 20 years' service?

One can only draw those conclusions by listening solely to msnbc. Is 43% a majority yet?

Maudine
SLC, UT

Actually, the Detroit bankruptcy is a manufactured (in other words not real) crisis created by the Republican Governor of Michigan who is selling bits and pieces of Detroit off to his buddies at a fraction of their value and who has been pushing for private management of public assets even though the voters voted against that.

Additionally, the state of Michigan owes more than enough money to Detroit for Detroit to pay their bills, but, again, in an effort to get private control of public assets, collection of that money is being ignored or mismanaged.

Yes, Detroit has problems - but nothing in this letter is pertinent to real life.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Thanks, Maudine for bringing some sanity to this discussion. Mayor Bing is doing a fantastic job, but corruption in state government is killing him.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

No one could afford to work at Walmart without food stamps and Medicaid and rent subsidies. We are ALL paying so that Walmart can stay in business and make the Waltons the richest family in the solar system. The idiots who rejoice at low Walmart prices don't realize they are paying a VERY high price in terms of social costs. Personally, I couldn't be paid to walk into a Walmart, even though I'm subsidizing them through my taxes just like everybody else.

VST
Bountiful, UT

@Maudine said, “Additionally, the state of Michigan owes more than enough money to Detroit…”

Care to cite a reliable source Maudine (not some “talking-head”) to back up your claim?

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To those of you blaming Walmart for "using the welfare programs" so that they can pay their employees less, you are totally wrong.

The walmart employees are using the welfare programs so that they don't have to improve themselves.

Why get an actual job skill that would get them higher paying jobs, when they can work Walmart and get welfare? Where is the incentive to go take classes in welding, nursing, automotive repair, or become an apprentice if you can work at Walmart and collect benefits from the government?

The problem isn't Walmart paying minimum wage for jobs that take no skill, the problem is people with no skills wanting to say that way.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Right now I am involved in the support of 4 separate families of my kin. Our ability to help these people comes from the savings we put away before retirement for our retirement. At the rate of use we will probably be broke in 2 to 3 years. Which of our families should cities emulate?

One of the articles about Detroit spoke about the Detroit Institute for Arts. Creditors are wanting the city’s art collection to be considered in the recovery effort. The art collection is said to be worth about $2,000,000,000.00 (2 billion). Should we wonder just how much of the 18 billion dollar bankruptcy belongs to the Arts, and all the other non-government activities that rob the taxpayer.

When bankruptcy comes to Utah will our leaders blame the employees and their pay or will they remember the overbuild and under utilized public transit, the zoo, the Broadway theatre, the Arts, and all the scams they used to rob the taxpayer.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Ultra Bob" fortunately the Utah Constitution, section 14 does not allow for the state, counties, or cities to get into too much debt. You should give the Utah Constitution a read, and see how else Utah protects itself from becoming another Detroit.

Maudine
SLC, UT

@ VST: WXYZ Channel 7 local ABC affiliate - google "heart of money debate between Detroit and the state" - the story is from a year ago, but the issue has not been resolved. The story talks about changes to the state's revenue sharing act for tax proceeds and how much was promised to Detroit that they have not received.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

More willful ignorance from the right.

4601
Salt Lake City, UT

The low information left has scrambled to find a way to blame everyone but Detroit and it's irresponsible politicians. Somehow MSNBC and the left wing will find a way to blame Bush. What would they do without good ol' W? The first step in solving the problems in Detroit is admitting the cause and the comments here indicate that sticking their heads deeper in the sand is their solution.

VST
Bountiful, UT

@Maudine,

Thanks for the reference.

After reading the article, if I assume correctly (not clear in the article), the amount claimed by Detroit in the suit ($224 million owed by the State) is over the original 10 year time period from 1998 through 2007. If extended another 5 years (from 2008 through 2013), that would add an additional $112 million making it a total shortfall of $336 million to Detroit over 15 years.

You said “...the state of Michigan owes more than enough money to Detroit for Detroit to pay their bills…” Does that imply you are saying that $336 million is enough to meet their current obligations; therefore, bankruptcy filing is not needed or warranted?

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Who says ridiculous pensions aren't available in the private sector? I read where management walks away from companies with tens of millions too often. There are excesses in the private and the public sector.

Pensions for the most part have been earned and should be honored where possible. In Detroit it may not be possible.

There is talk that Detroit doesn't want to sell their billion dollar plus art collection. Of course for them not to sell it in bankrupsy would be wrong. No one should hang on to art rather than pay what they owe.

Maudine
SLC, UT

@ VST: That money would allow Detroit to make current payments while working on a permanent solution - so yes, it is more than enough to prevent the bankruptcy.

Additionally, if Michigan is prevented from short-selling Detroit's assets - and were made to make up the difference on the assets it has already sold for a fraction of their value - than even more would be in place to prevent the bankruptcy.

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