Re: "If there is a silver lining, perhaps this is it — that we might
renew a civil discourse . . . ."I don't know what
you've been watching, Dan, but there's no civil discourse. No silver
lining.This tragedy has been hijacked by the victimization industry
[including their wholly-owned subsidiary, the news media], whose leaders are
seeing what has been a lucrative, influential political gig going on the
wane.Truth is, today's race problem is negligible. And that
scares those who've made a good living and been given influence WAY out of
proportion to any validity their positions may once have had, over WAY too many
years.So, they're disingenuously stirring the pot, hoping to
further divide us as a Nation, cynically influence a few sophomoric malcontents,
and re-energize a guilt-ridden liberal base, all to regain political power
they've correctly lost, because there's no real need for them
anymore.Trayvon/Zimmerman was never about race. Using it as a
springboard to discussions of race relations is buying into the victimization
industry's cynical lies.
Race hustlers like Al Sharpton,Jesse Jackson and others see "racism"
where it doesn't exist, except in their own minds!
Leave the issues in the country it comes from. We are Americans Not in Ireland
or England, Africa or Mexico or in any place. We are in America. Respect this
place it's an honor and a privilege to be hear. Act like it.
My biggest problem with this case is the sloppy work done by the police force.
Much has been said about the presence of THC in Martin's body, indicating
that he had smoked marijuana some time before. But there was no investigation
of Zimmerman's condition at all. Had he been consuming illegal drugs or
had he been drinking alcohol?We also know that Zimmerman had issues.
He was arrested at age 20 for shoving a police officer who was questioning if
one of his companions was old enough to purchase a drink. He also had some
history of domestic abuse - his ex-fiancee had a restraining order placed on him
in 2005, alleging domestic violence.Why is a person with this record
permitted to carry a gun? Isn't that just asking for trouble?I
can't say the jury made the wrong decision. They found Zimmerman not
guilty, which is not the same as innocent. This simply means that the
prosecution failed to prove its case. We'll never know for certain who
initiated the physical confrontation that led to Martin's death. It is sad
for everyone involved.
The reason we can't have a dialog on race in this country is because we
can't have an honest dialog on the topic. For example, in 1960 there was a
higher percentage of two-parent black homes than two-parent white homes. What
happened to destroy the black family by the end of the century? There is a
political faction in this country that does not want that question answered
honestly.If a black man like Bill Cosby, with no political agenda to
grind, wants to discuss solutions to the social problems faced by blacks, it
doesn't create a dialog. It creates an outcry, a furor, a spewing forth of
hateful comments from those who cannot tolerate opinions other than their own.
How can a dialog exist in that environment.If someone observes there
are more blacks in the criminal justice system because they commit more crimes,
nobody wants to evaluate whether the evidence supports that theory. Instead,
they want to immediately crucify the messenger as racist. How can a dialog
happen in that environment?To have a dialog, you have to be willing
to listen to and consider opinions that differ from your own.
I was disgusted to learn that Treyvon used a racist phrase in describing
Zimmerman to his friend while on the phone with her.This racism has
no part in our country.Shame on Treyvon.
Imagine for a moment...A young BLACK man with juice and skittles
from 7-11, wearing a hoodie, being harassed and relentlessly
followed, by a bigger man, and HE'S the one with a gun?George Zimmerman never would have been on trial.Perhaps the lesson
to be learned is that entire African American community should also be following
the advise of the NRA and the pro-gun 2nd amendment supporters?
Re: "Perhaps the lesson to be learned is that entire African American
community should also be following the advise of the NRA and the pro-gun 2nd
amendment supporters?"Couldn't hurt.An armed
society is a polite society.
LDS lib"Perhaps the lesson to be learned is that entire African
American community should also be following the advise of the NRA and the
pro-gun 2nd amendment supporters"If you look at some cities like
LA and Chicago, that's already happened.They are ahead of you
@procuradorfiscalSomehow, I don't see the armed communities in
LA and Chicago (as pointed out by Chris B) or in Mogadishu, for example, as
polite societies. Armed societies are not necessarily more polite, but they are
undoubtedly more deadly.
@procuradorfiscal"Truth is, today's race problem is
negligible."Have you ever thought to actually ask a minority
what there is that concerns them about race relations? Or read or listen to
something, find a Melissa Harris-Perry show from this past weekend, I don't
know, just try and figure out where the heck their views that there are still
problems is based on.
If this resulted in a discourse on race relations... that would be a good
thing.I think the kind of discussion we are having here is
"good". Snarky at times. But we are talking about it. Talking past each
other sometimes, but at least some people may learn something from the
discussion.IMO the protests are mostly non-productive. Especially
the ones that have resulted in random violence on innocent bystanders.
Especially when that violent outburst is caused by the color of the innocent
bystanders skin.I think it would help if the President (who was
supposed to be able to bring us together on race relations) would say something.
As far as I can tell he has said almost nothing and done almost nothing to help
race relations in his whole two terms as President. I don't know what
better opportunity he's waiting for to actually his ability to help America
heal than this.btw... Protesters need to realize there could be
backlash from their protests. They could actually make race relations worse, and
increase the divide.It would be tragic if the racial-divide in
America actually worsened after electing Obama.
Re: "Have you ever thought to actually ask a minority . . . ?"Have you? If not, you're now actually engaged with a member of a
recognized minority -- me.I didn't say there is no race blather
problem. There is.But actual race problems are negligible.If you're a Black man, living in America -- even where Trayvon died --
who doesn't pursue and assault others, including neighborhood watch
volunteers, your chances of suffering or dying from actions motivated by racial
animus are vanishingly small.Even Hispanic Democrats, married to
beautiful Native American Republicans, living in Tooele County [for the
irony-impaired -- that's me], the odds of suffering racial or ethnic
discrimination are infinitesimal.That hasn't always been true
-- I was paddled in school for speaking Spanish. Teachers suspected we were
discussing them. We were.But today? White male protestants have are
at much higher risk.And, white America's chances of being
verbally assaulted, reviled, and blamed for any of a number of things it had
absolutely no hand in, by one or another captain of an obsolete victimization
To say that 'actual race problems' are negligible is simply untrue.
In a recent survey of young black males, 25% said that they had been hassled by
law enforcement without cause. This month. I
can't see that the Zimmerman case is about anything except race. Zimmerman
followed this kid because he was 'acting suspiciously.' Well, what
was he doing? There's no evidence that he was doing anything except
walking home. But he was black and he wore a hoodie. So does that make him
suspicious? As it happens, there are many young teenage guys in my
neighborhood. Great kids all. I sat on my porch and watched 'em
yesterday, walking down the street. One was talking to himself. Another
stopped suddenly, then took off in another direction. Two of them were walking
together trying to shove each other off the sidewalk. They were, in short,
being kids. Betcha anything that was all Trayvon was doing.
@procuradorfiscal"Even Hispanic Democrats, married to beautiful Native
American Republicans, living in Tooele County [for the irony-impaired --
that's me]"Somehow I managed to walk into that one even
with the odds heavily in my favor that my assumption was correct based on local
demographics..."White male protestants have are at much higher
risk."This is kind of amusing because I'm insisting that
your demographic is worse off when it comes to facing bigoted persecution and
you're insisting that it's my demographic that is worse off when it
comes to facing bigoted persecution.
Why do I keep reading that Trayvon Martin had skittles, does that somehow make a
difference? If Adolf Hitler liked apple pie for example with that somehow rescue
I find it hard to believe that the black community has made Trayvon Martin their
poster child. Even the President says that if he had a son he would want him to
be like Trayvon Martin. Our discussion, if we have one, must be honest.You
cannot define racism away so that it exists only in the white mind. Trayvon
Martin epitomizes what is wrong in the black community - not what is right. I am
not justifying Zimmerman's actions but I do justify the jurors. There is so
much hatred for police and white people in general that it is impossible to say
what is true. Lets have an open and frank discussion by all means. Just look at
all of the disrespect that is manifested everywhere you go.
"In a recent survey of young black males, 25% said that they had been
hassled by law enforcement without cause."Just curious, did they
survey young males of other races? And did they control other
parameters?The statistic is meaningless in a discussion of racism,
without comparisons of other races and without parameters being equal. After hearing the Martin Father's press releases today, it is very clear
that what they need is to have empathy, for the loss of their son, from the US
community. I don't think any amount of protesting, either peaceful or
violent, will fill that need. Nor would a wrongful conviction of Zimmerman fill
that need. The protests are meant to provide undo power to certain activist
groups, not help the Martin family, nor to address real racial issues.
A calm, dispassionate analysis of crime statistics by race will show that
black-on-white crime is far, far higher than the reverse. If you want an honest
discourse on race relations, start with that fact. It won't
To be clear: President Obama did not say that if he had a teenage son that he
would hope he would be like Trayvon. What he said was that if he had a son, he
would probably look rather like Trayvon. Big difference.
There Is No (Net) Silver LiningMany people including myself have
lost a measure of confidence in the legal system as a result of the Zimmerman
case. Defending ones self is not only a fundamental right, it is supposedly
legally protected. Initially the law was followed and authorities declined to
prosecute the case. Then for political reasons Mr. Zimmerman was forced to
undergo an expensive and time consuming show trial, where he was forced for
months to either be in Jail or wear an ankle monitor and feel that he was at
risk of going to prison for the rest of his life.People who have so
shoot others to defend themself or to protect others are supposed to call 911
after the shooting and report what happened to proper authorities. There will be
people who would have called 911 and reported what happened who now won't.
Some will simply leave the scene and disappear instead. Dealing with the legal
system is now seen as too unpredictable and the cost for doing the right thing
as too high.
One sided discussions don't work. I was raised to judge people by who they
were rather than skin color. But what I have witnessed are allegations of any
confrontation between a Caucasian and someone of another race as racially
motivated. I am becoming sick and tired of it. The NAACP is racist by its very
name and promotes Racism and Hate. The Zimmerman Trial Persecutor was Indicted
July 2nd by a Criminal Grand Jury for falsifying the Affidavit to obtain the
arrest warrant for Zimmerman. Whether guilty or innocent, the evidence needed
to convict him never existed from the beginning. So what is there to discuss?
If you don't agree , you are racist. May I remind everyone Race was
interjected into The shooting by Trayvon's family, friends and supporters.
If you are looking for evidence of Racism, it is right in front of you
If a possible silver lining from this tragedy is a discourse on race
relations... then the possible dark outcome from this tragedy is race riots.I'm for the discourse, not the riots. I don't know what
purpose the riots really serve. Seems like they cause more resentment, anger,
and division... not less.
Eric SWhen Zimmerman testified on Hannitys FOX News show, he said
that Trayvon was walking in a suspicious manner. Different from a straight
steady walk home out in the open. Now you probably don't believe that, but
since it was the only eyewitness testimony available, it was one of many reasons
any fair juror would have had to declare not guilty due to reasonable doubt. By
the way, if former Governer of New Mexico and Clinton cabinet member Bill
Richardson had had a son, he would probably look rather like George Zimmerman.
So what's the point that Obama was trying to make? Another stupid
statement by a stupid man.
cjbI was living in Southern California at the time of the O.J.
Simpson murder case. I followed it on TV and radio thoughout the day, knew the
case inside and out, feeling I understood it better than some of the numbskull
police detectives. After the trial, I read several books about it. Bottom
line, from the forensic evidence and everything else, I know Simpson murdered
those two people better than if I had been watching him do it in person. That
for me was when I lost a lot of faith in the justice system. I learned two
important things. First, defense lawyers are usually more experienced and
better in the courtroom than district attorneys are. Two, you can usually buy
the justice you need.Also, I agree with you that people will now be
less likely to get involved or even call 911, especially on a black person, lest
they be called racist profilers. I think this case will have some bad
ramifications for America in the future.
I guess as a white man who has never had a truly racist thought in my life, I
find it exasperating when our commander in chief tells us we are still a racist
nation. I've been to other countries, many supposedly
enlightened and European, where the people are rampantly racist to the point of
it being embarrassing to talk with them. I know a few people about the age of 80
who are terrified they'll be raped by someone with a different skin color,
but honestly, I don't see it in the young people at all. I
think if you spend your life looking for insult you'll find it--regardless
of the reason you feel insulted. Race, religion, sexual orientation, education
level, your weight, favorite sport's team, hair color, you name it, if
you're sensitive about it, you will find a reason to be offended.