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Comments about ‘David Ridenour: Yes, Congress should end subsidies for wind power’

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Published: Sunday, July 14 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Who wrote this? Exxon Mobile?

Can we also end subsidies to oil companies too?

Baron Scarpia
Logan, UT

The GOP is really split on wind. Many conservative states, from Iowa to Texas to Kansas reap so much rural economic development from wind that you see their leaders seek out policies -- whether it is tax incentives or mandates for the amount of clean energy incorporated onto the grid -- so that they can create jobs and long-term revenue streams for local communities. Many farmers and ranchers see wind power's land lease payments as a "second" harvest.

It is amazing to see how unionized coal has hypnotized some GOP into supporting it, including Mitt Romney during his presidential run. Kind of a paradox given that the GOP typically opposes unions, but analysts say Romney's opposition to wind and support for coal unions cost him some key wind states, including Iowa and Colorado.

All energy is subsidized, whether is the new nukes going into Georgia via Obama's stimulus or our military operations in the Mideast to secure "our" oil. The real question is what types of energy should America pursue? Low cost, price-stable wind power or fossil fuels that will require more ObamaCare given their pollution on our health, wars, yo-yo pricing, future clean up costs...

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

I agree. I think airlines should pay the fully loaded cost of airports and all the associated infrastructure. Cars and trucks..... they should pay the full cost of the resources they use. And education.... heavily subsidized.... lets have the parents pay in taxes the full cost to educate their kids.

There is ongoing argument that people want to use that somehow the government enabling new technologies via subsidies is a bad thing. If this were the case, most people in rural areas would not have phone, internet, and in some cases, even power. Providing services to rural areas would never produce a positive ROI if the service provider didn't get some subsidy to lay down infrastructure.

Subsidies are what has powered American into leadership for centuries. Subsidies built our canals, or rail network, technologies spun out of NASA - which gave us things like flat screens found on laptops, and composites used on things like Boeing's 787.

We seem to forget that it was government subsidies that gave us things like Nuclear power. It is a technology that would not exist without DEEP government subsidy.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

What about the millions of wild birds windmills have killed and are killing everyday? Imagine the outrage from the left if any other man made product fossil fuel energy generation devise did that! Silence from the "green energy" crowd is telling isn't it?

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

"What about the millions of wild birds windmills have killed and are killing everyday? Imagine the outrage from the left if any other man made product fossil fuel energy generation devise did that! Silence from the "green energy" crowd is telling isn't it?"

Hydro Electric kills millions of fish.... and no protest there..... so imagine all our surprise these is a lack of response here too. Actually seems more consistent than inconsistent.

Aircraft kill thousands of birds too. Cars kill thousands of deer each year.... no protest....

By the way... millions..... that might just be a bit of an exaggeration....

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Equating the few birds and fishes killed to the short and long term effects of continual drilling is ridiculous. Just ask anyone who lived in the gulf when BP valued profits over safety.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "The Real Maverick" done. The oil companies right now receive no subsidies. They are one of the largest tax paying industries in the US. They not only pay direct corporate taxes, but also pay billions in local and federal royalties.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

What is with the DN monitor today --
Please, I beg you -- follow YOUR own rules -
there is NOTHING breaking the rules with this post...

======

‘David Ridenour: Yes, Congress should end subsidies for wind power’

LDS Liberal: Yes, Congress should end subsidies for;

Coal,
Oil,
Tobacco,
Farmers
Wallstreet,
Bankers,
ect.

The sad fact of the matter is,
Conservative Think-Tanks only singled out Wind subsidies.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

MM, I'm from 'the left'. I don't care how many birds get killed by wind turbines. A huge strip mine supporting a coal fired plant are guilty of this, too. Again, no problem. We've embraced 'drill baby', and it's making me money. That all being said, I also recognise that conventional resources are simply not infinite. There's a lot of wisdom in leading the way toward alternatives; either that or we'll be behind the curve. Others will do it. As good as it is to tear every last bit of resource out of the land, we're fools not to look beyond that.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Wind must be "harvested" when it is available, not when it is needed. Storing that "wind" in batteries is a toxic waste hazard. Converting the power in those batteries to the electricity that we need is not efficient. Coal, gas and water all produce power as we need it.

Solar energy faces the same problem. It must be "harvested" when it is available. If it is not needed, it much be stored. If it is stored, is is less efficient than coal, gas or water generated power.

If we turn off the coal, gas and water, then we must turn on nuclear. It is the only viable alternative CURRENTLY available. Scientists can keep working on other forms of power generation, but we can't be held hostage as a nation just because something is "just around the corner".

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ UtahBlue. Millions of fish killed by hydro? Evidence please!

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

Why not try the truly free (and accurate) market approach - end all subsidies and make sure all industries bear the full cost of what the produce. Something tells me if the polluting industries bore the cost of the damage they inflict on a clean environment (that benefits all), wind would suddenly be quite competitive.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

@mountainman

"Scientists generally agree that in the Upper Columbia River Basin dams are responsible for the death of 70-96% of the downstream migrating young fish and about 40% of the upstream migrating adults. Many salmon pass at least 8 major dams on their journey to and from the ocean."

"The high death toll for young salmon is caused, in part, by passage through the dam's turbines. Some are killed directly by the turbines; others are stunned and become easy prey."

Source - report commissioned by Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, Northwest Power Planning Council, State of Idaho Governor's Office, Bonneville Power Administration

Your turn... whats your source?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

"We see sea lion predation throughout the river," says Doug Hatch, a senior scientist with the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission, "and everybody who doesn't have their head in the sand sees the same thing." Seems sea lions are a far bigger killer of salmon on the Columbia River. Fish ladders around the damns have greatly increased migrating salmon up the river, if they can get past the sea lions, that is. I have fished for salmon and steelhead all the way to the Clearwater and Salmon Rivers here in Idaho. Its a very popular sport here! But weren't we talking about millions of birds being killed by windmills? Why are we talking about fish as a justification for dead birds?

the old switcharoo
mesa, AZ

Mountainman, You really expect us to believe anyone in the republican party cares about wild birds?

That's the most dishonest argument they bring out about windfarms. "ooh the poor little birdies...."

LDS Tree-Hugger
Farmington, UT

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

You don't "store" energy from the wind.
You don't "store" energy from the sun.

You use it during the DAY, when power is at it's peak use.
Right when GOD made it for us to use.

Tell us Mike...

Why should we continue to burn coal 100% of the time during the Day,
When we have Sun and Wind?

This is why All-or-Nothing thinking makes you wrong.

the old switcharoo
mesa, AZ

Mike Richards, The vast majority of people that use wind power are "on Grid" which means basically that if their turbine produces more power than they are using their excess power goes to a neighbor and they are credited for the same amount of power for future use. The turbine will either have a separate meter or will turn a single meter backwards. Either way the owner will get 100% credit for all power produced.

Since wind power will most likely always be a lesser portion of power to the whole the same on grid principle means there is always an immediate use for wind power.

Please, refrain from trying to make a "fact filled" post before you actually know about a subject. Your assumptions are not facts.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Moiuntainman...... there was nothing in the quote that indicates sea lions are the leading killing of fish in the Columbia River Gorge. It just states that they are there.... doesn't say anything about percentages or contribution to the problem. I lived in Seattle for a number of years, and the locks in Ballard were chock full of sea lions. And yet, huge numbers of Salmon were able to navigate the locks and make their way into the creeks around Issaquah.

The point is, you raised the issue if bird killings, and no one was making a big deal about it. I used the example of fish kill - which you doubted - as being an equal problem - with little outcry on that issue to. That is how fish kills got into this.

The honest numbers for birds being killed is about 573,000 birds every year in the United States. It didn't take that much research to find that number. Not millions. And yes, they are working on technologies to reduce that number since a large number of those birds are raptors. Banning lattice based turbine supports has already dropped that number.

There is no inconsistency here.

Howard Beal
Provo, UT

MM:

Living in Provo, the June Sucker, a native fish to the lake prior to the Pioneers coming to the valley is an endangered species. This has came about because of the dams be built upstream and the rerouting of the Provo River.

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