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In our opinion: Health care confusion

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  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 14, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    EDM,
    you blame the repubs, those who had nothing to do with it, because you are unwilling to admit the the dems made a horrible mistake - ALL BY THEMSELVES!

    blaming Obamacare on repubs is like blaming a crime on the victim.

    repubs tried putting forth ideas - they were ignored. they did NOT, as you and MSNBC keep repeating, refuse to cooperate. They worked to prevent the current Obamacare catastrophe from happening, but they failed in that effort. But they DID put forth ideas and tried to work with the dems. remember, BO told them could come along for the ride, but they had to ride in the back. nancy and harry would not give them the time of day.

    again, to blame Obamacare on those how opposed it is like blaming the sailors aboard the Arizona, Utah, and Oklahoma for the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    How much more twisted can you get in the logic you need to justify defending the dems?

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    July 14, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    If the Republicans in the House don't want government involvement in health care then let us hope they will refuse to fund it.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 13, 2013 11:52 p.m.

    @Eric Samuelsen "What matters is that Republicans in the Senate didn't filibuster it."

    Look at the numbers I posted earlier. 58 + 2 = 60. It was mathematically impossible for the Republicans to filibuster Obamacare at the time that it passed the Senate.

    "But it was initially proposed by Republican governor Mitt Romney in Massachusetts."

    The Massachusetts law had already been discredited when Obamacare was under consideration. It was an idea weighed in the balance of a state "laboratory" and found wanting.

    Here's why you are so desperate to tie it to the opposing party: Obamacare has proven completely unworkable. The president is admitting it by his own actions. And, like the Blamer-in-Chief, you are now unwilling to have your party take responsibility for the legislation it championed. However, the voting record is there for everyone to see. We all know who voted for it, and who didn't.

    Obamacare is a Democrat plan -- a highly-visible failure of Big Government.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 13, 2013 10:46 p.m.

    "The Office of Price Administration (OPA) was established within the Office for Emergency Management of the United States government by Executive Order 8875 on August 28, 1941. The functions of the OPA were originally to control money (price controls) and rents after the outbreak of World War II." (Wikipedia)

    FDR signed the executive order that froze wages. Employers began to offer "benefits", including health insurance, to keep valued employees. Employer supplied health insurance is a direct result of FDR's Executive Order. Now government thinks that it has the right to tell employers to pay "benefits" in lieu of wages. No employee is going to be paid more than he is worth. He can take the entire amount owed to him and pay for those "benefits" that he wants, or he can let the "human resource" department handle those things for him. Goverment mandated insurance comes out of his wages. Government mandated Social Security comes out of his wages, both his "part" and his employer's "matching contribution". His vaction time and sick leave all come out of his wages. Employer sponsered education comes out of his wages. He is paid a wage based on his value to the company.

  • EDM Castle Valley, Utah
    July 13, 2013 8:08 p.m.

    Lost in DC,

    I blame the Republicans for failing to seize the moment. When the entire country was behind serious health care reform, the Republicans refused to cooperate with Dems because they would rather watch it all burn than see the Dems get any credit for leadership. We could have had something great.

  • Iron Rod Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2013 7:12 p.m.

    It appears to me that the Deseret News is against Obama care.

    Do they endorse anything different other than the current situation?

    Some people say the Republican Party is the party of No with out an alternative.

    Is this the case?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 13, 2013 5:37 p.m.

    Eric,
    What we settled for was this: a market-oriented Republican solution.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Oh, please stop! My sides are aching.

    Right, it got – how many repub votes?

    Repub solution – riiiight.

    And yes, they DID filibuster, but one RINO defected. Please stop telling untruths – you are better than that.

    Atl134
    Yeah, because BO’s economic results have been so miserable – Obamacare had NOTHING to do with it.

    EDM,
    Pretty twisted conclusion, blaming Obamacare on those who did NOT vote for it.

    Maverick,
    Repubs saw how it operated in MA and learned from it. Dems insist on repeating mistakes.
    More than tort reform, but I guess MSNBC didn’t tell you that, so you remain yet ignorant.

    Marxist,
    FDR had NOTHING to do with any laws passed during WWII??

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2013 5:09 p.m.

    Re: Mike Richards "Blame FDR to starting that misconception. He froze wages. Employers created "benefits" to retain valued employees." Subject to check but I believe the OPA was the source of the wage freeze during WWII.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    July 13, 2013 2:38 p.m.

    Nate,
    Irrelevant. Of course Republicans voted against it; it was an important piece of legislation proposed by President Obama. What matters is that Republicans in the Senate didn't filibuster it.
    But it was initially proposed by Republican governor Mitt Romney in Massachusetts. And it's a kind of health care reform that does not destroy 'private health insurance company' as a concept. It included market incentives, through the exchanges.
    And it did, and does, some important good things. Like keep kids on their parents' insurance longer. It does not allow insurance company to deny coverage, or cut you off if you become expensive. And it makes insurance coverage possible for everyone.
    It's a good bill, a B, B plus kind of bill. And when it's implemented, watch. It will be plenty popular.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    This editorial is nothing more than a rehash of the Republican position.
    Lots of complaints, while offering absolutely no alternative.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    July 13, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    Nate:

    You forgot about the "upheld by the Supreme Court" part.

    I fully expect Republicans to be opposed to it, and we'll see this House of Representatives vote to repeal it another couple of dozen times, at least, along with failing to support Immigration Reform, and other issues important to the growing demographic that makes Republican consultants cringe.

    Yell louder, stomp your feet harder, offend as many people as you can. Please, don't stop.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 13, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    Funny how Obamacare was fine for repubs like Orrin Hatch and the Heritage Foundation in the 90s. Now suddenly, it's bad because a Democrat endorsed it.

    So what's the repub solution? Tort reform (something already included in Obamacare)? Ohhh yeah... That'll solve everything...

    The GOP's solution is like trying to drain the Pacific Ocean with an 8 oz glass.

    Lets just join the rest of the industrialized world and get a single payer system already. You know this is coming, repubs. Might as well get it over with rather than drag this out kicking and screaming like a bunch of 3 year olds.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 13, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    @Eric Samuelsen "Republican solution"

    Senate vote: 58 Democrats and 2 Independents in favor, 0 Republicans.
    House vote: 219 Democrats in favor, 0 Republicans.

    Own it.

  • EDM Castle Valley, Utah
    July 13, 2013 11:22 a.m.

    Whenever I read a boo-hoo opinion like this one I have to cringe. When Obama was elected to his first term, 100% of Americans agreed that health care reform was absolutely necessary. Not one person in these United States would have said that run-away health care costs were just fine and dandy. But Almight Competition was thrown out of the room - by Republicans, no less. Why? Because the proposed government-run system that would have competed with private health insurerers was the Democrats' idea. So much for principles and ideals. Republicans have no one to blame but themselves, because putting an "R" on it is always more important than higher things.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    July 13, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    To Alt 134:

    Yeah, its more affordable to those who get the subsidies, and more unaffordable to everyone else. Nice argument. In the end, ObamaCare is a fiasco.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    Health care costs have increaed at the slowest rate in half a century the past three years. okay so in fairness a lot of that was due to the recession and a lot of Obamacare hasn't gone into effect yet. I have to think though that the millions getting expanded medicaid would find it more affordable. All those students like myself who can stay on their parents plans a few more years find it more affordable. All those people who will get subsidies starting in 2014 so they can go out and get insurance will find it more affordable. The people who are tied of subsidizing the irresponsible people who don't have insurance and then rack up hospital expenses will find it more affordable when those people have to get insurance.

  • 1conservative WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 13, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    Its only a matter of when, not if, Obamacare folds. It has enough holes in it to drive a truck through.

    The question is: how many billions will we waste before we give up trying to implement it?

    The failure of Obamacare reflects several issues. Obama didn't think he needed any Republicans at all to help pass it. That issue created the deep divisions on its' acceptance. They (democrats) didn't spend near enough time trying to find the problems with it before they voted for it.

    Democrats thought that, eventually, most Americans would embrace it. But they didn't, and probably won't.

    Extended court fights, threats of defunding, and even the practical implementation and cost aspects of Obamacare will all add to its demise.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 13, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    Hutterite and Marxist, you are right. We really need Medicare for all or single-payer. But at least the ACA was a step in the right direction. Keeping the status quo would simply have enriched the health-insurance industry fat cats while decimating the finances of modest-income people with health problems.

    The way to get single-payer is to elect a majority Democratic House in the 2014 elections, then to suspend the filibuster rule in the majority Democratic Senate.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    July 13, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    ObamaCare increased access to a broken healthcare system, and only worsened the problem. Of course the "Affordable Care Act" is a misnomer. It was intentionally labeled with a lie to hide its true intentions.

    To Hutterite: "Single Payer" will only make the problem worse. ObamaCare is just the middle step to single payer, a step in the wrong direction. We need a functioning market where consumers are incentivized to take care of their health decisions (eating, exercise, treatment choices, provider choices, etc.). Single payer only makes all this more murky. I wrote a white paper years ago on how to fix the healthcare market, and to better regulate where markets fail (e.g. price inelastic services and R&D). But no one wants logical solutions. Everyone wants a political solution.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    July 13, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    Wait, so the DN . . . is against Obamacare? Really? What a shocker.
    Or perhaps it should be called Romneycare? This isn't the system liberals wanted, not even the system Obama wanted. A Medicare expansion is what we wanted, but that wasn't politically viable. What we settled for was this: a market-oriented Republican solution.
    It also might work fine. A lot of evidence suggests it will work. Why don't we wait for it to be implemented? Then see what parts work, which parts don't work, and amend accordingly?

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 13, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    Repeal Obamacare early, before the disaster gets any worse.

    And no, single payer will not be more affordable. It creates perverse incentives of its own.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 13, 2013 9:41 a.m.

    The root of the problem is that the federal government has no authority to force Americans to buy insurance. The Court told us that Obamacare was a tax and that Congress has the authority to levy taxes. What the Court did not review was whether an "insurance tax" is authorized by the Constitution. They did not review that question because the "tax" had not been implemented and because it had not been implemented, no "damages" could be determined. Without "damages", nothing could be done. To me, that was simply a Court that ignored its duty to uphold the Constitution, but at least they told us that Obamacare is the largest tax increase ever put upon Americans.

    The federal government has NO authority to require health insurance. Some States may have that authority, depending on their constitutions. Obtaining health care is still a personal duty. Sure, it is costly, but it is costly mostly because of government interference. Doctor visits would not cost $200 if the patient had to pay $200. Patients think that the cost is only $20 or free.

    Blame FDR to starting that misconception. He froze wages. Employers created "benefits" to retain valued employees.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 13, 2013 8:57 a.m.

    Come out in support of a single payer system. That WILL make health care more affordable.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 13, 2013 8:51 a.m.

    In my view President Obama's position should have been "medicare for all." The public could have understood that and implementation would have been swift and clean. But the various sectors of the health care business would not have tolerated that so we have the current environment of confusion and fear. What will happen is anybody's guess. I can tell you that many elderly and baby boomers are fearful of going to the grave without care. If this happens politicians need to know they will face open revolt.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 13, 2013 7:59 a.m.

    the editorial spells out all that is WRONG with Obamacare. Don't need to add anything except that the delay in the employer mandate was definitely an effort to blunt the damage BEFORE the mid-term election.

    as far as how BAD Obamacare is, what do you expect from a dem house, dem senate, and dem WH, but a misguided, mis-named, and thoroughly reprehensible piece of legislation?