Letters: Government becoming our idol and absolute monarchy


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  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    July 10, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    J Thompson:" What is "unreasonable"? The courts tell us that if something is not in plainview, that a warrant is required."

    The courts haven't upheld that notion since Reagan declared a "War on Drugs."
    The patriot act that president Cheney and the neo-cons gave us finished the deal, with pre-search, search warrants and free reign to monitor electronic info in text and broadcast over the air. (cellphones)
    Or did you miss that, while you "went out shopping" like bush told you, for your lapel flag?

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    July 10, 2013 8:08 a.m.

    @Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    The lives of those AMERICANS were deemed to be expendable. Remember that the next time that you support a politician who puts office ahead of duty. He will not be there when YOU paint the target, when YOUR life is on the line.
    2:22 p.m. July 8, 2013


    And yet,
    here we have YOU still supporting GW Bush,
    his wars for Oil,
    based entirely on lies,
    and 5,000 expendable dead, 70,000 expendable wounded?

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    July 8, 2013 6:22 p.m.

    The Preamble to the Constitution does not extend authority to government. It is a simple statement about the purpose of having a Constitution, otherwise, it would not be necessary to list defense and military six times in Article 1, Section 8.

    What is "unreasonable"? The courts tell us that if something is not in plainview, that a warrant is required. Data inside a cell phone or a computer is not in plainview. It requires searching to retrieve it. A reasonable person would know that looking for something that is hidden, something that cannot be obtained without the assistance of AT&T, Sprint or other cell phone company is hidden. A reasonable person would admit that if something is hidden, that a warrant must be issued to obtain that "something".

    Providing for the common defense is done by raising armies and navies, which were authorized by the people in Article 1, Section 8. That section also provides for taxing us to pay for the "common defense".

    Spying on the citizens is NOT providing for the common defense. Monarchs would have you believe differently.

    Free people must NEVER permit government to encroach on their freedoms.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 8, 2013 4:42 p.m.

    @Mike Richards

    Your dogmatic adherence to, and defense of, right-wing propaganda (as purveyed by certain well-known right-wing talking heads) is nothing short of astounding . . . no, wait, it is actually pretty predicable.

    With regard to the following: "Who gave the federal government the authority to "track" my email or to keep a list of my phone calls?", might I direct your attention to this language, contained in the U.S. Constitution: "We the People of the United States, in order to . . . provide for the common defense, . . . do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America".

    Now, before you counter with the 4th Amendment, please note that it DOES NOT prohibit *all* searches and seizures, but rather *unreasonable* searches and seizures; it also DOES NOT stipulate whether warrants permit/authorize searches and seizures, or order/mandate them, leaving that to some fairly broad interpretation.

    I do not advocate unfettered surveillance of U.S. citizenry; but I certainly do not advocate extreme absolutist opposition to judicious use of such surveillance to "provide for the common defense", either. A reasonable middle-ground can and should be found.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 8, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    @mike richards

    So you get your information from a grieving father that was not there or apart of any agency involved in the operation, a man that the far right has decided to exploit the grief of during his darkest hours?

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    July 8, 2013 4:04 p.m.

    Mike you got your information from dead soldiers father who wasn't there? While his loss is tragic it doesn't make him an expert. And by the way this was the 13th such attack in the last decade and the four deaths make 52 that have been killed in these attacks. This is an American problem not an Obama problem.

  • mackay4mayor West Valley, UT
    July 8, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    I couldn't agree more with you!! I'm running for mayor of West Valley City and I can't believe how much people really don't care about government, they are so beat down by taxes and regulations that they just don't care anymore, I fear for this country.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 8, 2013 2:22 p.m.


    I get my information from the father of one of the Seals who was sacrificed. I get my information from the man whom Obama would not look in the eye. I get my information from someone whose son paid the ultimate price so that Obama would not be embarrassed when the world found out that Obama had not stopped terrorism and that AMERICANS died.

    Obama and his followers have a different story. They can't account for anything. They locked up a "movie maker" rather than let the world know that those lives could have been saved.

    The lives of those AMERICANS were deemed to be expendable. Remember that the next time that you support a politician who puts office ahead of duty. He will not be there when YOU paint the target, when YOUR life is on the line.

  • Liberal Today Murray, UT
    July 8, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    Hail Monarch Obama! He even has the best dog ever!

    The IRS chief went to the White House 157 times because he is a dog lover and he wanted to visit the Obamas' cute little dog. That dog never told him to target conservative groups. The President is therefore innocent.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    July 8, 2013 12:58 p.m.

    Mr. Richards where do you get your information? Six responders were sent from the same location that the small seal team was told not to board an airplane. The six were 4 special security personnel and two military. They arrived and locked down the second location. It was not the two security guys on the roof that saved the 30 personnel.

    Alfred..please the IRS managers said they created the screening criteria themselves for better efficiency and there is no, again no evidence that this is wrong.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 8, 2013 12:31 p.m.


    So what exactly do you hope to accomplish by repeating the same lie over and over again. quick search on poltifact shows that deportations have been higher every year of the Obama administration then they were at anytime during the Bush administration.When you try to support your conspiracy theories with a lie you kind of lose before you start.

  • Alfred Pheonix, AZ
    July 8, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    "... it has been proved 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' that no politicians influenced the IRS misstep."

    Politicians don't have to sit down with IRS people and verbally spell out what's wanted done. Politicians (such as the illustrious Obama) know who to hire to get the job done without explicit instructions. Let's take the illegal immigration for example. Attorney General Eric Holder refuses to arrest and deport illegals. Why? Because he knows his boss, being an immigrant, wouldn't want him to do it. No words have to pass between them.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    July 8, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    @Mountanman – “They have their own apostles and prophets: Karl Marx and Charles Darwin.”

    If the world was the cartoon caricature you (and Ayn Rand and Beck, Rush, et al) portray it to be, I would be a Tea Party conservative too! Thankfully it is not…

    I would need 2000 words to dismiss everything you listed in your comment (although simple common sense does so effortlessly), but just taking your statement above please explain where my own view fits into your worldview.

    Here it is -

    Karl Marx was one of the most easily refutable “philosophers” our world has ever produced. He starts with a demonstrably wrong premise from the get go (i.e., labor theory of value) and the rest of his philosophy falls like a house of cards (some trenchant critiques of capitalism notwithstanding). And the effects of his philosophy were/are tragic beyond words.

    Darwin on the other hand is one of the greatest liberators (from bad ideas) the world has ever seen and is perhaps the best example of how science triumphs over superstition.

    So as someone who is suspicious of all “isms” where do I fit in?

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 8, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    Since 1994 the number of regulations approved per year has ranged from 228 to 371, the group found.

    Between 2009 and 2011, the Obama administration approved an average of 297 regulations per year, comparable to yearly figures for the past 18 years.

    We are no more and no less socialist now then wee have been in the last 20 years. the sky really is not falling.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    July 8, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    I would agree with Mountainman about the status of Darwin and Marx in the humanist world but would say that, since there is no Supreme Creator in the Statist cosmos, we must promote Marx and Darwin to the top rank, adding Freud to make an unholy Trinity (though they could not, and did not, take credit for having created the universe.

    I have to agree with Utah Blue Devil in his British history, though. While George III could not rule entirely as he wished in Britain, he could (while sane)get a lot of what he wanted via his power of appointing ministers, with his other executive powers (comparable to those of an American president at home and - more especially- abroad). Powers of patronage gave him considerable influence, together with an archaic electoral distribution. He was more potent than the previous Hanoverians in that he came to command respect through personal virtue and in that he spoke and understood English well.

    George III's ability and inclination to micro-manage in America, led to the colonists' just lament and complaint that they were not afforded "the rights of Englishmen".

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 7, 2013 7:37 p.m.

    Who gave the federal government the authority to "track" my email or to keep a list of my phone calls? I didn't - not at any time nor for any reason. They are not authorized by the Constitution to "track" us or to "monitor" us or to "evaluate" us. They cannot do any of those things legally without a warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause that we have COMMITTED a crime. Committed is past tense, not future tense.

    If not for the fact that two Navy Seals disobeyed a direct order to stand down, the death toll would have been more than thirty Americans - to save a sitting President from the embarrassment of admitting that he had not stopped terrorism!

    The total lies coming out of the administration are unbelievable. Only someone with his head in the sand would believe that Barack Obama's brother should have been given tax exempt status for the Barack H Obama organization and that that organization should have that status made retroactive for two years previous while virtually every conservative organization had to list every donor and every cause - before being REJECTED.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    July 7, 2013 6:11 p.m.

    Seriously Mike R, you don't want your emails or cell phone calls looked at. First of all their always has been a record of every phone call..remember your bill that listed each call. That's all the NSA was doing. Secondly it has been proved "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that no politicians influenced the IRS misstep. Lastly the Benghazi embassy wasn't left to fend for itself when support was told to stand down. The small squad that was told not to board an airplane was told so because reinforcements had all ready been sent and were practically there. They did in fact lock down and secure the remaining personnel. The two killed were killed because they were standing on the roof when a mortar came in. The rest nonsense and whining.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 7, 2013 5:57 p.m.

    As to the fruits of socialism, we all have our own opinions frequently expressed on this blog and others. I myself have watched it growth in our own country and observed it in operation in many other lands. But what I have yet to see or hear of is its freeing the hearts of men of selfishness and greed or of it bringing peace, prosperity, plenty or freedom. These things it will never bring, nor will it do away with idleness, dole and never will it promote any industry, thrift and self respect for it is founded in theory and practice on force. While it is often promoted and defended on terms of compassion, it is just the opposite.

  • Kim Cedar Park, Texas
    July 7, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    These kind of overgeneralized opinions are not informative or persuasive. Get specific and present the evidence.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    July 7, 2013 4:17 p.m.


    Don't you anti-government guys (expect when you're cash your SS check or getting your hip replacement for pennies on the dollar) ever tire of the rage?

    And have you ever asked yourselves why your pot went from lukewarm to full boil overnight (i.e., the day Obama took office)?

    Remove the Fox/AM radio IV rage drip and go for a walk... one long enough to gain some perspective (see Appalachian trail or Camino trail in Spain).

  • Lew Scannon Provo, UT
    July 7, 2013 3:08 p.m.


    Where was your list when Bush was Prez?


    I agree. Might I suggest David Korten's book "When Corporations Ruled the World." Things have only gotten worse since it was published.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 7, 2013 11:38 a.m.


    I want freedom from being spied upon when I send emails and talk on my cell phone unless a judge has signed a warrant based on probable cause for MY emails and MY cell phone. I want to know that the I.R.S. is treating every American equally and that no politician can influence the I.R.S. I want to know that every word coming out of the President's mouth is the absolute truth; that he has not "forgotten" to say something that would change the meaning of what he said; that he did not blame someone or something else for his "behind the scenes" activities. I want to know that the government is not giving automatic weapons to gangs in Mexico, weapons that were used to kill an American Border Patrol agent. I want to know that no consulate or embassy will be left to fend for itself when the military is told to stand down when that consulate or embassy is under attack and when a fine soldier is "painting" the target that would save the people in that consulate of embassy.

    That's just the beginning of my list.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    July 7, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    This letter was a good laugh. This nation is a owned by corporations. The banks own the money supply and the corporations own everything else.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 7, 2013 10:07 a.m.

    Blue Devil, you wrote, "Don..... wrong. If your teachers had done their jobs . . "

    May I suggest that you err in blaming Don's teachers. It was probably more likely that Don simply wasn't paying attention that day. Or that he has allowed conservative purveyors of hate and misinformation to fool him.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    July 7, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    Okay, name a single thing you personally want to do that you are personally banned from doing by the big mean monarchical government. Go ahead. We'll wait.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 7, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    I can ALWAYS tell those who listen to AM hate radio 9 hours a day, 5 days a week by the parroting of everything they hear day in and day out [i.e., brainwashing] in their letters to the DN editor.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    July 7, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    BULL - oney!

  • FreedomFighter41 Orem, UT
    July 7, 2013 8:47 a.m.


    call me crazy but I'm pretty sure the folks who gained control of the government are the folks kicking in the billions in lobbyist money. While folks like you want to attack your fellow Joe Sixpack while ignoring the big corporation money, others with a brain will recognize that special interest money is what's ruining our country. Not your avg/poor American who is merely trying to make ends meet.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 7, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    The trouble with history is that everyone seems to believe that their view of history is the correct one. That belief is a universal false notion.

    Politicians rewrite history to suit their own need. Religions and other groups with their own motives do likewise.

    My own view of our nations history is simply the discovery of new opportunity and the fierce war among men for control over the commercial wealth. Everything that happened and is still happening now is for commercial reasons.

    It should be noted that our national government is our only source of freedom and rights. And then only when the commercial forces that control our government need our help. No business, religion or any other organized group is concerned with freedom and rights for the little people.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    July 7, 2013 8:21 a.m.

    "What was the cause of the formation of the United States? We all know: the rule of an absolute monarchy in England,"

    Don..... wrong. If your teachers had done their jobs, they would have told you that by this time the rule of absolute rule by kinds in England was done by this time, as ushered in by the Magna Carta many years before our own constitution. England at that time was decades into a parliamentary monarchy by that time.. The problem is that the colonies had little to no representation in that parliament - hence the "no taxation without representation statements.

    I don't discredit Don's feelings though. What he and many others are sensing is a dramatic change in how representative out government is. When our country was founded, each house of representative was elected to represent about 5,700 people. Today, that number has bloomed up to nearly 700,000 per house representative. It is easy to see why the "feeling" of representation has been diminished.... not because we have a "king", but because like our early founders, they and we are very much to distant from those who govern us.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 7, 2013 7:52 a.m.

    Great article! Big government is the new age religion of liberals. They have their own apostles and prophets: Karl Marx and Charles Darwin. If you mention God to them they tell you all about evolution, the big bank theory and "from each according to their ability and to each according to their needs";social justice and wealth redistribution. They have their own sacrament: abortion on demand, free birth control pills and being gay is a far more preferable human trait than being straight. They have their own enforcement agencies which no other religion has: the SCOTUS, the IRS, the Department of Justice, the NSA, Obamacare and the EPA, all of which are corrupted and out of control. They take your property, your freedom and your ability to govern yourself because after all, you and I are too stupid to make our own choices. Big government is their God all others must serve them or be investigated, punished and targeted. They are watching you with drones, their computers, and they monitor your phone calls. Step out of line and they come and take you away! Just ask Lois Lerner and Eric Holder but they won't answer any questions.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 7, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    We've evolved. Things have gotten a lot more complicated than when this nation was founded; there are a lot more of us. And, most of all, there are way more lawyers. It takes a lot of regulation to make a modern, urban society work. Government isn't an 'idol'. But it is necessary.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    July 7, 2013 3:26 a.m.

    Oh hogwash. The mean old government does some dumb things, yes, but they are just people and pretty good people too. They fight our wars, protect our food and water and air and bank deposits from unscrupulous exploiters,teach our children, and watch over our beautiful parks and scenery.

    I have family members who work for the awful government--they are teachers, soldiers, fire fighters, and yes even IRS employees. It is offensive to call them "dictatorial" or "monarchical." They're doing their best for you and they sure aren't getting rich doing it.

    How about a little gratitude instead of all the same old cranky paranoia?