J Thompson:" What is "unreasonable"? The courts tell us that if
something is not in plainview, that a warrant is required."The
courts haven't upheld that notion since Reagan declared a "War on
Drugs."The patriot act that president Cheney and the neo-cons gave us
finished the deal, with pre-search, search warrants and free reign to monitor
electronic info in text and broadcast over the air. (cellphones)Or did you
miss that, while you "went out shopping" like bush told you, for your
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahThe lives of those AMERICANS
were deemed to be expendable. Remember that the next time that you support a
politician who puts office ahead of duty. He will not be there when YOU paint
the target, when YOUR life is on the line.2:22 p.m. July 8, 2013========== And yet, here we have YOU still supporting GW
Bush, his wars for Oil, based entirely on lies, and 5,000
expendable dead, 70,000 expendable wounded?
The Preamble to the Constitution does not extend authority to government. It is
a simple statement about the purpose of having a Constitution, otherwise, it
would not be necessary to list defense and military six times in Article 1,
Section 8. What is "unreasonable"? The courts tell us that
if something is not in plainview, that a warrant is required. Data inside a
cell phone or a computer is not in plainview. It requires searching to retrieve
it. A reasonable person would know that looking for something that is hidden,
something that cannot be obtained without the assistance of AT&T, Sprint or
other cell phone company is hidden. A reasonable person would admit that if
something is hidden, that a warrant must be issued to obtain that
"something".Providing for the common defense is done by
raising armies and navies, which were authorized by the people in Article 1,
Section 8. That section also provides for taxing us to pay for the "common
defense". Spying on the citizens is NOT providing for the
common defense. Monarchs would have you believe differently. Free
people must NEVER permit government to encroach on their freedoms.
@Mike RichardsYour dogmatic adherence to, and defense of, right-wing
propaganda (as purveyed by certain well-known right-wing talking heads) is
nothing short of astounding . . . no, wait, it is actually pretty predicable.With regard to the following: "Who gave the federal government the
authority to "track" my email or to keep a list of my phone calls?",
might I direct your attention to this language, contained in the U.S.
Constitution: "We the People of the United States, in order to . . . provide
for the common defense, . . . do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America".Now, before you counter with the 4th
Amendment, please note that it DOES NOT prohibit *all* searches and seizures,
but rather *unreasonable* searches and seizures; it also DOES NOT stipulate
whether warrants permit/authorize searches and seizures, or order/mandate them,
leaving that to some fairly broad interpretation.I do not advocate
unfettered surveillance of U.S. citizenry; but I certainly do not advocate
extreme absolutist opposition to judicious use of such surveillance to
"provide for the common defense", either. A reasonable middle-ground
can and should be found.
@mike richardsSo you get your information from a grieving father
that was not there or apart of any agency involved in the operation, a man that
the far right has decided to exploit the grief of during his darkest hours?
Mike you got your information from dead soldiers father who wasn't there?
While his loss is tragic it doesn't make him an expert. And by the way
this was the 13th such attack in the last decade and the four deaths make 52
that have been killed in these attacks. This is an American problem not an
I couldn't agree more with you!! I'm running for mayor of West Valley
City and I can't believe how much people really don't care about
government, they are so beat down by taxes and regulations that they just
don't care anymore, I fear for this country.
@P,I get my information from the father of one of the Seals who was
sacrificed. I get my information from the man whom Obama would not look in the
eye. I get my information from someone whose son paid the ultimate price so
that Obama would not be embarrassed when the world found out that Obama had not
stopped terrorism and that AMERICANS died.Obama and his followers
have a different story. They can't account for anything. They locked up a
"movie maker" rather than let the world know that those lives could have
been saved.The lives of those AMERICANS were deemed to be
expendable. Remember that the next time that you support a politician who puts
office ahead of duty. He will not be there when YOU paint the target, when YOUR
life is on the line.
Hail Monarch Obama! He even has the best dog ever!The IRS chief went
to the White House 157 times because he is a dog lover and he wanted to visit
the Obamas' cute little dog. That dog never told him to target conservative
groups. The President is therefore innocent.
Mr. Richards where do you get your information? Six responders were sent from
the same location that the small seal team was told not to board an airplane.
The six were 4 special security personnel and two military. They arrived and
locked down the second location. It was not the two security guys on the roof
that saved the 30 personnel.Alfred..please the IRS managers said
they created the screening criteria themselves for better efficiency and there
is no, again no evidence that this is wrong.
@alfredSo what exactly do you hope to accomplish by repeating the
same lie over and over again. quick search on poltifact shows that deportations
have been higher every year of the Obama administration then they were at
anytime during the Bush administration.When you try to support your conspiracy
theories with a lie you kind of lose before you start.
@pragmatistferlife:"... it has been proved 'beyond a shadow of a
doubt' that no politicians influenced the IRS misstep."Politicians don't have to sit down with IRS people and verbally spell out
what's wanted done. Politicians (such as the illustrious Obama) know who
to hire to get the job done without explicit instructions. Let's take the
illegal immigration for example. Attorney General Eric Holder refuses to arrest
and deport illegals. Why? Because he knows his boss, being an immigrant,
wouldn't want him to do it. No words have to pass between them.
@Mountanman – “They have their own apostles and prophets: Karl Marx
and Charles Darwin.”If the world was the cartoon caricature
you (and Ayn Rand and Beck, Rush, et al) portray it to be, I would be a Tea
Party conservative too! Thankfully it is not…I would need 2000
words to dismiss everything you listed in your comment (although simple common
sense does so effortlessly), but just taking your statement above please explain
where my own view fits into your worldview. Here it is - Karl Marx was one of the most easily refutable “philosophers” our
world has ever produced. He starts with a demonstrably wrong premise from the
get go (i.e., labor theory of value) and the rest of his philosophy falls like a
house of cards (some trenchant critiques of capitalism notwithstanding). And the
effects of his philosophy were/are tragic beyond words.Darwin on the
other hand is one of the greatest liberators (from bad ideas) the world has ever
seen and is perhaps the best example of how science triumphs over superstition.
So as someone who is suspicious of all “isms” where do I
Since 1994 the number of regulations approved per year has ranged from 228 to
371, the group found.Between 2009 and 2011, the Obama administration
approved an average of 297 regulations per year, comparable to yearly figures
for the past 18 years. We are no more and no less socialist now then
wee have been in the last 20 years. the sky really is not falling.
I would agree with Mountainman about the status of Darwin and Marx in the
humanist world but would say that, since there is no Supreme Creator in the
Statist cosmos, we must promote Marx and Darwin to the top rank, adding Freud to
make an unholy Trinity (though they could not, and did not, take credit for
having created the universe.I have to agree with Utah Blue Devil in
his British history, though. While George III could not rule entirely as he
wished in Britain, he could (while sane)get a lot of what he wanted via his
power of appointing ministers, with his other executive powers (comparable to
those of an American president at home and - more especially- abroad). Powers
of patronage gave him considerable influence, together with an archaic
electoral distribution. He was more potent than the previous Hanoverians in that
he came to command respect through personal virtue and in that he spoke and
understood English well.George III's ability and inclination to
micro-manage in America, led to the colonists' just lament and complaint
that they were not afforded "the rights of Englishmen".
Who gave the federal government the authority to "track" my email or to
keep a list of my phone calls? I didn't - not at any time nor for any
reason. They are not authorized by the Constitution to "track" us or to
"monitor" us or to "evaluate" us. They cannot do any of those
things legally without a warrant signed by a judge based on probable cause that
we have COMMITTED a crime. Committed is past tense, not future tense.If not for the fact that two Navy Seals disobeyed a direct order to stand
down, the death toll would have been more than thirty Americans - to save a
sitting President from the embarrassment of admitting that he had not stopped
terrorism!The total lies coming out of the administration are
unbelievable. Only someone with his head in the sand would believe that Barack
Obama's brother should have been given tax exempt status for the Barack H
Obama organization and that that organization should have that status made
retroactive for two years previous while virtually every conservative
organization had to list every donor and every cause - before being REJECTED.
Seriously Mike R, you don't want your emails or cell phone calls looked at.
First of all their always has been a record of every phone call..remember your
bill that listed each call. That's all the NSA was doing. Secondly it has
been proved "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that no politicians influenced
the IRS misstep. Lastly the Benghazi embassy wasn't left to fend for
itself when support was told to stand down. The small squad that was told not
to board an airplane was told so because reinforcements had all ready been sent
and were practically there. They did in fact lock down and secure the
remaining personnel. The two killed were killed because they were standing on
the roof when a mortar came in. The rest nonsense and whining.
As to the fruits of socialism, we all have our own opinions frequently expressed
on this blog and others. I myself have watched it growth in our own country and
observed it in operation in many other lands. But what I have yet to see or hear
of is its freeing the hearts of men of selfishness and greed or of it bringing
peace, prosperity, plenty or freedom. These things it will never bring, nor will
it do away with idleness, dole and never will it promote any industry, thrift
and self respect for it is founded in theory and practice on force. While it is
often promoted and defended on terms of compassion, it is just the opposite.
These kind of overgeneralized opinions are not informative or persuasive. Get
specific and present the evidence.
Sigh...Don't you anti-government guys (expect when you're
cash your SS check or getting your hip replacement for pennies on the dollar)
ever tire of the rage? And have you ever asked yourselves why your
pot went from lukewarm to full boil overnight (i.e., the day Obama took office)?
Remove the Fox/AM radio IV rage drip and go for a walk... one long
enough to gain some perspective (see Appalachian trail or Camino trail in
Mike,Where was your list when Bush was Prez?Shaun,I agree. Might I suggest David Korten's book "When Corporations
Ruled the World." Things have only gotten worse since it was published.
Eric,I want freedom from being spied upon when I send emails and
talk on my cell phone unless a judge has signed a warrant based on probable
cause for MY emails and MY cell phone. I want to know that the I.R.S. is
treating every American equally and that no politician can influence the I.R.S.
I want to know that every word coming out of the President's mouth is the
absolute truth; that he has not "forgotten" to say something that would
change the meaning of what he said; that he did not blame someone or something
else for his "behind the scenes" activities. I want to know that the
government is not giving automatic weapons to gangs in Mexico, weapons that were
used to kill an American Border Patrol agent. I want to know that no consulate
or embassy will be left to fend for itself when the military is told to stand
down when that consulate or embassy is under attack and when a fine soldier is
"painting" the target that would save the people in that consulate of
embassy.That's just the beginning of my list.
This letter was a good laugh. This nation is a owned by corporations. The banks
own the money supply and the corporations own everything else.
Blue Devil, you wrote, "Don..... wrong. If your teachers had done their jobs
. . "May I suggest that you err in blaming Don's teachers.
It was probably more likely that Don simply wasn't paying attention that
day. Or that he has allowed conservative purveyors of hate and misinformation
to fool him.
Okay, name a single thing you personally want to do that you are personally
banned from doing by the big mean monarchical government. Go ahead. We'll
I can ALWAYS tell those who listen to AM hate radio 9 hours a day, 5 days a week
by the parroting of everything they hear day in and day out [i.e., brainwashing]
in their letters to the DN editor.
BULL - oney!
Don, call me crazy but I'm pretty sure the folks who gained
control of the government are the folks kicking in the billions in lobbyist
money. While folks like you want to attack your fellow Joe Sixpack while
ignoring the big corporation money, others with a brain will recognize that
special interest money is what's ruining our country. Not your avg/poor
American who is merely trying to make ends meet.
The trouble with history is that everyone seems to believe that their view of
history is the correct one. That belief is a universal false notion. Politicians rewrite history to suit their own need. Religions and other
groups with their own motives do likewise. My own view of our
nations history is simply the discovery of new opportunity and the fierce war
among men for control over the commercial wealth. Everything that happened and
is still happening now is for commercial reasons. It should be
noted that our national government is our only source of freedom and rights.
And then only when the commercial forces that control our government need our
help. No business, religion or any other organized group is concerned with
freedom and rights for the little people.
"What was the cause of the formation of the United States? We all know: the
rule of an absolute monarchy in England,"Don..... wrong. If
your teachers had done their jobs, they would have told you that by this time
the rule of absolute rule by kinds in England was done by this time, as ushered
in by the Magna Carta many years before our own constitution. England at that
time was decades into a parliamentary monarchy by that time.. The problem is
that the colonies had little to no representation in that parliament - hence the
"no taxation without representation statements.I don't
discredit Don's feelings though. What he and many others are sensing is a
dramatic change in how representative out government is. When our country was
founded, each house of representative was elected to represent about 5,700
people. Today, that number has bloomed up to nearly 700,000 per house
representative. It is easy to see why the "feeling" of representation
has been diminished.... not because we have a "king", but because like
our early founders, they and we are very much to distant from those who govern
Great article! Big government is the new age religion of liberals. They have
their own apostles and prophets: Karl Marx and Charles Darwin. If you mention
God to them they tell you all about evolution, the big bank theory and "from
each according to their ability and to each according to their needs";social
justice and wealth redistribution. They have their own sacrament: abortion on
demand, free birth control pills and being gay is a far more preferable human
trait than being straight. They have their own enforcement agencies which no
other religion has: the SCOTUS, the IRS, the Department of Justice, the NSA,
Obamacare and the EPA, all of which are corrupted and out of control. They take
your property, your freedom and your ability to govern yourself because after
all, you and I are too stupid to make our own choices. Big government is their
God all others must serve them or be investigated, punished and targeted. They
are watching you with drones, their computers, and they monitor your phone
calls. Step out of line and they come and take you away! Just ask Lois Lerner
and Eric Holder but they won't answer any questions.
We've evolved. Things have gotten a lot more complicated than when this
nation was founded; there are a lot more of us. And, most of all, there are way
more lawyers. It takes a lot of regulation to make a modern, urban society work.
Government isn't an 'idol'. But it is necessary.
Oh hogwash. The mean old government does some dumb things, yes, but they are
just people and pretty good people too. They fight our wars, protect our food
and water and air and bank deposits from unscrupulous exploiters,teach our
children, and watch over our beautiful parks and scenery. I have
family members who work for the awful government--they are teachers, soldiers,
fire fighters, and yes even IRS employees. It is offensive to call them
"dictatorial" or "monarchical." They're doing their best
for you and they sure aren't getting rich doing it. How about a
little gratitude instead of all the same old cranky paranoia?