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Letters: Old and new Utah culture

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  • Confused Sandy, UT
    July 8, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    Alfred....

    you excuse for the members of the church being unkind to other is appalling...

    They are TAUGHT to be exclusive, even our own Prophet has said "Be more inviting, more open to our non LDS friends"... are you arguing with the man you proclaim as a prophet?

    Like wastintime, I was born in SLC and have pioneer hertiage... Unlike him, I lived on the West side of the valley and my family was NOT LDS. The treatment we received by hands of these so called good Mormons... well let just say "not accepting of the standards of our church".

    It was not until I found members outside of my area that I realized that not all Mormons were jerks... they converted me later and now I try to be that example for others to feel welcome.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 8, 2013 9:21 a.m.

    @Mike Richards;

    Before the Mormons arrived there was a thriving civilization here already. Many non-Mormons also arrived at or near the same time as the Mormons. My ancestors joined the LDS Church, not because they were looking for freedom to worship, but because they liked what they heard.

    And it WAS the Mormons who pushed Prop-8 to violate the freedom of LGBT Americans. It WAS the Mormons who rallied and bussed in tons of people to help push their agenda and paid at least half the total cost. Mormons are not innocent of that, and there is a saying from Bible, which you say you believe: "You reap what you sow" (i.e. actions have reactions and consequences). You took action, accept the consequences.

  • Neanderthal Pheonix, AZ
    July 7, 2013 5:46 p.m.

    @Truthseeker:
    "It is ironic that some Utahns view 'outsiders' as a threat to their society when that is exactly what sparked tensions between Missourians, Ohioans, and Mormons."

    It's human mature. No matter what you and others may think of the Mormons, they're human, too.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 7, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    Sadly, Utah is full of ignorant hypocritical Pharisees who speak the right words on Sunday, but whose actions and attitudes are anything but inviting and Christlike. If you have lived in the "mission field" and then return, it is all too apparent.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 6, 2013 11:15 p.m.

    @Mike Richards
    "If you've left another state to come here, then really leave that state, don't drag it with you as extra baggage."

    If other states took that line of thought people would have more dislike of missionaries exporting their values.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    July 6, 2013 8:59 p.m.

    It is ironic that some UTahns view "outsiders" as a threat to their society when that is exactly what sparked tensions between Missourians, Ohioans, and Mormons. Mormons in Missouri and Ohio began to overwhelm the local population. Some Mormons even stated they were going to drive the locals out. As the Mormons gathered they were insular--didn't appear to the native population
    as assimilating.

    One would think that UTahns, wanting to be more Christ-like would treat outsiders with respect and courtesy. Utahns shouldn't demonize immigrants and others in the same way their wncestors were feared and demonized.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 6, 2013 8:56 p.m.

    @ Mike Richards

    Your assertions that LDS churches were burned and Temple access blocked in California after Prop 8 are totally false.

    Your straw man assertions (1), that somebody is demanding that you lower your standards, and (2), that somebody is dictating doctrine and covenants to you are equally false and quite ridiculous sounding!

  • Alfred Pheonix, AZ
    July 6, 2013 8:37 p.m.

    @Wastintime:
    "I'm not buying it because I was born and raised in SLC and have great-great grandfathers who were polygamists."

    That's another thing... alotta men had to hide due to breaking anti-polygamy laws.

    When you add it all up, the people of Utah developed a suspicion of strangers for many reasons including those I've cited... and the suspicious mentality lingers still. Not with all folks, but many.

    If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    July 6, 2013 8:05 p.m.

    @ Alfred

    I'm not buying it because I was born and raised in SLC and have great-great grandfathers who were polygamists. My ancestors crossed the plains (and were persecuted as you described), but that was four generations ago! I was raised on the east bench, spent my youth on lovely ski slopes, received a semi-decent education, and had every advantage most white people raised in America in the 1970's had. I have lived around the country, and everywhere I've moved people have opened their arms and accepted me as I am. People living in Utah in the year 2013 have absolutely no excuse for not doing the same. When I visit (and people give me attitude for being a Californian) I can only marvel at (and be ashamed at) how ignorant some Uthans are.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 6, 2013 7:59 p.m.

    LDS? lib,
    Utah stopped aligning with the dems when the dems embraced abortion uber alles and pushed for gay marriage.

  • Alfred Pheonix, AZ
    July 6, 2013 7:39 p.m.

    @Wastintime:
    "Sorry Alfred, I'm not buying it."

    Not buying what? That early Mormons were kicked out of at least two places they built up... and three if you count Kirkland where they erected their temple?

    If you were kicked out like that and in one place (Missouri) threatened with death if you didn't leave post-haste, and eventually had to trek over 1,500 miles to get to a safe place I think you'd be 'buying it' and then some. I think it'd take you a life time or two to get over the distrust of strangers moving in.

    "Almost all of us can look back in our family histories and see ancestors who have struggled and been horribly oppressed."

    Struggling and being oppressed is not quite the same thing as being threatened with total extermination.

    "This is no excuse for our own bad behavior."

    It's engrained. It will take generations to put it behind them.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 6, 2013 7:12 p.m.

    Was it the "Mormons" who burned and trashed LDS churches after Prop 8? Was it " Mormons" who blocked temples in California so that temple worship was restricted? Is it "Mormons" who stomp and spit on scripture when SAINTS from all over the world congregate for conference? Is it "Mormons" who demand that liquor be served at "family restaurants?

    There are many good people here who are members of other religions, but they're not the ones who demand that we lower our standards so that they can feel "comfortable". They, like us, are mocked and belittled by those who will not be satisfied until Salt Lake becomes Los Angeles, or San Francisco, or Las Vegas, or Chicago.

    WE are a peculiar people. WE left those places to come to a place of refuge, a place of peace, a place where we can worship our God without the world dictating doctrine and covenants to us.

  • cavetroll SANDY, UT
    July 6, 2013 6:59 p.m.

    @ Mike Richards

    "Many of our ancestors imigrated to Utah from foreign countries.." The LDS pioneers who immigrated to "Utah" in 1847 were illegal immigrants. Utah was a part of Mexico at that time.

    What I find ironic is those who claim their anscestors came to Utah to practice their religion freely and away from oppression now tend to oppress those who also want to practice their religion freely.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    July 6, 2013 6:15 p.m.

    Sorry Alfred, I'm not buying it. Almost all of us can look back in our family histories and see ancestors who have struggled and been horribly oppressed. This is no excuse for our own bad behavior. And bad behavior it is.

  • Alfred Pheonix, AZ
    July 6, 2013 5:45 p.m.

    @Irony Guy:
    "As a Mormon myself, I am continually ashamed that my fellow LDS are often so unwelcoming."

    Your fellow LDS got that way quite naturally. Utah's ancestors were were kicked out of several places back east until they finally moved en mass to Utah. But it didn't end there. The Federal Government sent an army (Johnston's ?) to Utah to harass even further. No wonder the descendents are suspicious of foreigners and tend to not welcome them. The attitude is engrained and will take more than just a day or two to get over... if ever.

    "Of all people on earth, we ought to be the best neighbors you can find anywhere."

    Give it time, but it won't happen in a day or two.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    July 6, 2013 5:15 p.m.

    "When you move somewhere, you should adapt to your new hometown, not try to change it. Else why did you move there?"

    I assume all of you who are putting forth this attitude live in tepees and speak native American language in your homes.

  • Wastintime Los Angeles, CA
    July 6, 2013 5:13 p.m.

    "As someone who served for fourteen years as a missionary for the LDS Church"

    Yikes...

  • Samuel the Liberalite Farmington, UT
    July 6, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    @Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    "We are a "peculiar" people. We're different. If you've left another state to come here, then really leave that state, don't drag it with you as extra baggage."
    2:59 p.m. July 6, 2013

    @Robert
    Rexburg, ID
    "When you move somewhere, you should adapt to your new hometown, not try to change it. Else why did you move there?"
    3:28 p.m. July 6, 2013

    =======

    Thanks to both of you for providing the perfect examples of nearly everything that is WRONG with Utah and it's Utah Mormons as stated in these 2 DN articles.

    FYI Robert - I hope you are truly practicing what you preach by living in a buffalo skin tee pee, eating fish, nuts, berries, deer and speaking Shoshone.
    "Else why did you move there?"

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    July 6, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    re: Mike Richards

    *We are a "peculiar" people. We're different. If you've left another state to come here, then really leave that state, don't drag it with you as extra baggage.*

    Love your use of the Royal We, Mike? Though, not as much as like your veiled opinion as to who you think is to blame for Utah's culture war.

    Repression, Denial, & insecurity will only get worse among "Old Utah" the more cosmopolitan that state becomes.

  • Samuel the Liberalite Farmington, UT
    July 6, 2013 4:39 p.m.

    @Robert
    Rexburg, ID

    If you are living in a buffalo skin tent, eating fish, nuts, berries, deer and buffalo -- you might not sound like such a hypocrite.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 6, 2013 4:21 p.m.

    @Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    We are a "peculiar" people. We're different. If you've left another state to come here, then really leave that state, don't drag it with you as extra baggage.
    2:59 p.m. July 6, 2013

    ========

    Mike,
    Thanks for nothing for being the very "problem" the last 2 articles have tried to address.

    BTW - it's not a Mormon vs. Non-Mormon thing for guys like you,
    it's really a Republican vs. Democrat.

  • Robert Rexburg, ID
    July 6, 2013 3:28 p.m.

    All around the West, you'll find the same attitude -- that Californians move in en masse and try to change their new town into mini California by trying to change local government policy, zoning, architecture, culture, etc. I've seen it first-hand in Nevada, Utah, and Idaho, and it seems to be real.

    When you move somewhere, you should adapt to your new hometown, not try to change it. Else why did you move there?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    July 6, 2013 2:59 p.m.

    Utah was established by people who wanted to worship God. Many of our ancestors imigrated to Utah from foreign countries where they had been oppressed by either the government or by their employers. My ancestors came from England, from Germany, from Denmark and from France. They asked for nothing except a chance to live their religion.

    Since that time, many more people have come to Utah. Some have come because they wanted a safe place to raise their families. Some came because they wanted to escape the crowds of the large cities.

    As someone who served for fourteen years as a missionary for the LDS Church, I asked hundreds of people why they came here. Almost every one of them said that they felt something special here that had been missing in their lives.

    Utah has something special to offer. It has a people who live eternal truths as best they can everyday of their lives. It has families where children love and respect their partents.

    We are a "peculiar" people. We're different. If you've left another state to come here, then really leave that state, don't drag it with you as extra baggage.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    July 6, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    As a Mormon myself, I am continually ashamed that my fellow LDS are often so unwelcoming. Of all people on earth, we ought to be the best neighbors you can find anywhere.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    July 6, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    For some there is no limit to the revision of history to suit their agenda.

    Yes there are trenched in culture issues here, more of the type described in this letter than about religion. Those who deny it need to move away for 5 years and come back. Then you will be able to see it.

    The religion wars seem to be pretty equally instigated, from where I am standing, a lot like the U vs BYU issues. Both sides have some crazy fanatics that get in people's faces, and a whole lot of normal nice people too.

    Go Utah State!

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    July 6, 2013 11:59 a.m.

    For the Record....

    Utah "used" to be predominately Progressive Democrat, long before it morphed into Limbaugh Republican.