Comments about ‘BYU football: Scheduling as independent helps recruiting’

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Published: Sunday, June 30 2013 11:30 p.m. MDT

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let's roll
LEHI, UT

The ironic part of this discussion is that the same posters who believe so strongly that a higher ranked recruiting class means you have the better team also believe that Utah is going to eventually have success in the PAC-12.

Utah is near the bottom in PAC-12 recruiting and also near the bottom in the standings.

I have yet to see a viable roadmap for Utah to outrecruit those at the top of the conference (USC, Stanford, Oregon) or even those in the middle (Washington, Cal, UCLA, the Arizona schools).

I'm all ears if someone has one, since I'd like to see Utah have success in the PAC-12. Obviously, "We play a PAC-12 schedule" isn't a recruiting advantage when you're recruiting against PAC-12 schools. So how does Utah move up in the recruiting battle?

That said, you'd think Utah fans would be proponents of the fact that innovation, desire and good coaching can lead teams to success over those more "talented." If not, I'm afraid Utah is in for years of futility in the PAC-12.

Avalancheskier
Fresno, CA

The Scarlet "REDS" up on the Hill recruit the same kids as the "Y" does. Remember that the "REDS" were in the beginning before the world ever was!

Those that have "ears to hear, let them hear"!

The "BLUES" have the most unique opportunity next to their "OTHER" mentor in Independence, aka "The Irish"

I can hear the whisper from the fields!!! "If you build it, they will come"

And come they will, from sea to shining sea..... And even beyond the borders of this Great Country

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

trueIndyWACer:

"And again, the only reason BYU hasn't won 5 of 7 against Utah is because of a blown call from the refs in 2010 (not to mention a bunch of other fluke plays) and an unforced error by BYU last year (botched snap returned for a TD)...Nothing to do with talent."

Nothing to do with talent? Who is more prone to producing "unforced errors"? The athlete with MORE talent, or the athlete with LESS? Furthermore, all that "unforced error" talk has been way overstated. It's really more of an excuse because you can't admit it when you're wrong, or when you're not the better team. Take that 1st TD in the 2011 game that you all like to call "unforced". After the Center snapped the ball over Heaps' head, who recovered the fumble?

Indy-WACers would like to say Derrick Shelby, but the answer was actually Jake Heaps. Shelby recovered Heaps' fumble. And that WAS forced. Heaps could've fallen on the ball, or taken the sack, but instead, he panicked -- due to the pressure "forced" by our Defense!

You keep losing because we've been the better team. Period. "Unforced errors" is just a weak excuse.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ MacNasty

"FYI: Last year the Cougs had 10 games nationally televised, your Utes 1. Conference bottom dwellers indeed get little national exposure and attention."

Last season:

Utah vs. USU - ESPN2
Utah vs. BYU - ESPN2
Utah vs. USC - ESPN
Utah vs, UCLA - Fox
Utah vs. Oregon St. - ESPN2
Utah vs. Arizona - ESPNU

The rest of the games could be found on the PAC-12 newtworks or FX. Congrats on being 100% wrong.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

trueIndyWACer1:

"...the majority of Utah's starters are juniors and seniors who don't have missions to worry about,...Nice spin job, Naval, but your argument just got blown up."

Utah's players don't go on missions? Somebody better tell all those RMs in those 2 classes that they didn't really go.

Nice spin job trueIndyWACer, but YOUR argument just got blown up.

"I think it's ironic that you call final polls subjective, but say nothing about the subjectivity of recruiting databases when each one of those varies wildly from the other."

How does reporting a 16-4 record against our other 2 instate FBS opponents NOT support that THOSE reankings reflect substantial validity? That's a lot of games there. Did Utah go 16-4 vs. teams like Michigan and Alabama? No. And notice that I didn't say that we went 20-0, or 16-0. Having superior recruiting classes doesn't "guarantee" victory. But it DOES impact greatly the outcome of the game. Better athletes (more "stars") = better record vs. inferior athletes (fewer "stars"). You can't effectively argue against it, so you're desperately tossing out all kinds of red herrings.

But logical fallacies don't work on me. Epic fail.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

"Example: Isaiah Nacua for BYU is rated as a 3 star prospect...."

Per Scout, Isaiah Nacua is de-committed from 2-Star byu.

@ Naval Vet--

That snap returned for a TD by Lee last September was 100% forced. When Star lined-up directly over C at NG, 2-Star byu's C immediately forgot about his responsibility of cleaning snapping the ball back and, instead, focused 100% on how in the world he'd survive to play another down. I witnessed this repeatedly throughout Star's career, as this C immediately became terrified/frantic/emotional, just like all of the others did. Look at the emotional-mess USC's Stud C Holmes became, for instance, as he attempted in vain to play Star straight-up, which immediately resulted in UTAH going-up, 14-0, before the USC coaches wised-up and gave him mandatory help.

No, that bad snap was 100% forced by Star's mere presence, unequivocally!

Also, UTAH forced 4 of the 7 TOs by 2-Star byu in 2011. There's a video online, in which all 7 TOs are analyzed, for all to view. This, too, is unequivocal! 44-PTS just simply can't be Spun-away!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet "How does reporting a 16-4 record against our other 2 instate FBS opponents NOT support that THOSE reankings reflect substantial validity?"

Because it can be explained away as being an "anomalous exception", much like Boston College's record against Notre Dame over the past 10 years is to you. BYU was horrible back when you went on a 4 game run during the Crowton years, there's no denying that. But the 5-3 record against BYU that U have now could easily be 3-5 but for a blown call by the refs and an unforced error by BYU.

U seem to think that there is a vast disparity in talent between the two schools which has led to Utah being up in the series. I would disagree. I don't think there was a vast disparity in talent when BYU took 3 out of 4 a few years ago against Utah.

I will concur with U that the one thing Utah has been better than BYU at the last few years is recovering our unforced fumbles. Your "superior" talent has granted U that, lol.

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet "Utah's players don't go on missions? Somebody better tell all those RMs in those 2 classes that they didn't really go."

Again, nice spin job. Why don't U do me favor? Go back to that 2009 game and list all of the starters at Utah that went on missions that would have been seniors that year (or in other words, all of the kids from the 2004 recruiting class for Utah)?

Then do the same for BYU. I'll be fascinated to see your results.

@AZUTE1 "Per Scout, Isaiah Nacua is de-committed from 2-Star byu."

Per Rivals and ESPN, he's still committed.

Which again begs the questions: which one of these recruiting services is right? I would venture to guess that it's the one that casts your school in the best light. And how are the final polls (AP, Coaches, BCS, Sagarin) all subjective, while recruiting services aren't?

Just curious :)

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@AZUTE1, Naval Vet, other Ute trolls

Once again, the fact that U come onto BYU boards and are constantly comparing yourselves to BYU tells me all I need to know about U, and about Utah.

Fun little factoid: there were two universities last year in the PAC 12 that finished 9th or worse in the conference in football, basketball, AND baseball: Washington St and Utah.

That's just sad. How does it feel to know that your program is the same caliber as Wazzu?

The fact that BYU football has lost 3 in a row to a program of that caliber is pathetic.

It's even MORE pathetic that Utah IS a program of that caliber.

No wonder you're here on the BYU boards...not a whole lot to cheer about over on the Utah side (unless you're into swimming program scandals and recruits switching commitments).

Stay classy, fellas. And keep using BYU as your metric of success, it's extremely flattering and cute :)

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@NavalVet "Indy-WACers would like to say Derrick Shelby, but the answer was actually Jake Heaps. Shelby recovered Heaps' fumble. And that WAS forced. Heaps could've fallen on the ball, or taken the sack, but instead, he panicked -- due to the pressure "forced" by our Defense!"

Which, again, I find ironic, since Jake Heaps was a "5-star" recruit, and Shelby was a "2-star" recruit. Shouldn't the higher ranked player with superior talent (supposedly) have won out in that situation? Shouldn't he have been able to fall on the ball, or scoop it up and thrown it out-of-bounds easily with just a lowly 2-star D-end bearing down on him?

I'm so confused...

Lol :)

Congrats on beating the "lowly, indyWACers" 3 times in a row. I don't know if it's pathetic or funny that you demean BYU for being such a lowly, indyWACer team and in the same breath beat your chest about "3 in a row, and 8 of 11" over the Cougs.

Hilarious!

Go Cougars!

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@truecoug

Take a deep breath before you blow a gasket!

worf
Mcallen, TX

@NavalVet:

You're a true Blue BYU fan.

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@SpokaneUte "Take a deep breath before you blow a gasket!"

? I'm not blowing a gasket. It's the summertime, I was bored, and I decided to trash talk with some trolls on BYU articles. It's all in good fun, as I'm assuming your comment was, too :)

If it wasn't, then don't take things so seriously. Just relax, and enjoy the playful banter...you'll be a lot happier :)

Go Cougars!

idaho cougar fan
Twin Falls, ID

let's roll

LEHI, UT

The ironic part of this discussion is that the same posters who believe so strongly that a higher ranked recruiting class means you have the better team also believe that Utah is going to eventually have success in the PAC-12.

Utah is near the bottom in PAC-12 recruiting and also near the bottom in the standings.

I have yet to see a viable roadmap for Utah to outrecruit those at the top of the conference (USC, Stanford, Oregon) or even those in the middle (Washington, Cal, UCLA, the Arizona schools).

I'm all ears if someone has one, since I'd like to see Utah have success in the PAC-12. Obviously, "We play a PAC-12 schedule" isn't a recruiting advantage when you're recruiting against PAC-12 schools. So how does Utah move up in the recruiting battle?

That said, you'd think Utah fans would be proponents of the fact that innovation, desire and good coaching can lead teams to success over those more "talented." If not, I'm afraid Utah is in for years of futility in the PAC-12.

I said that 2 years ago! Utah = forgotten!

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