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My view: Utah will miss out on ACA benefits

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  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    July 1, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    To "NeilT" the problem is that the fascist approach to the ACA benefits nobody in the end. Lets look at it from a benefits vs. finances sort of view.

    If you can get all of the healthcare coverage that you could ever want, with minimal co-pays, would you pay $20,000/yr for that coverage? Or would you pay $10,000/yr for an insurance plan that covers less and requires higher co-pays?

    You may get more benefits, and there may be some good things in there, but each time that you add more benefits it will cost you in a premium hike.

  • NeilT Clearfield, UT
    June 30, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    Recently the ACA was the topic of discussion at work. Despite the overall disdain for the ACA everyone person present admitted their were aspects of the ACA they supported and agreed with. Romney promised to dismantle the ACA his first day in office and he lost the election. If Republicans had realized this and came up with a better version of the ACA that was more acceptable to the general public we wouldn't be having this contentious debate.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 28, 2013 3:52 p.m.

    Truthseeker
    SLO, CA
    3:38

    You criticize Utahns for trash-talking other States. Then you take a go at another of your usual anti-Utah rants. Is that not hypocritical?

    You may be here just to comment on issues... but you sure seem to talk Utah down a lot.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    June 26, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    re:LostinDC

    CA contributes 13% of the nation's GDP.
    Utah less than 1%.

    CA still beats UT in GDP per household ($157,555. vs $142,861)


    But I think it's great that UT tries and succeeds to be fiscally sound. I hope they continue to prosper. I hope all states and U.S. citizens can prosper, provide for their families and have economic stability. But what I see here on DN comment boards is the need of Utahns to trash-talk other states--especially CA.

    Why does it happen?
    For sure, people tend to be "ethnocentric."
    I grew up in UT. I'm well aware of the underlying inferiority complex that has long existed among Utahns/UT Mormons and the need to flaunt "successes," tout Mormon celebrities etc.

    And/or
    It seems Utahns or Mormon conservatives tend to look at CA as a great evil liberal bastion and example of pure liberalism--despite the fact that CA is extremely diverse politically, religiously, socially, racially, and has had more Republican than Democratic governors etc.

    Comparing UT to CA is comparing apples to oranges.
    Every state has pros/cons.
    I'm here to comment on issues, I will also defend CA.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    June 26, 2013 1:52 p.m.

    pragmatistferlife:

    For example, every school district in Utah is cutting their non-certified teachers to less than 30 hours. This has been the news for quite some time, not sure how you missed it. I'm sure Utah is not the only state going down this direction. The fines for violating this are immense. Expect some private businesses to hire more people but keep them less than 30 hours. Again, the example I write about is no urban legend, thousands of school employees have been notified across our state that their hours will be cut starting in July. I'm sure other government agencies and many private small businesses are doing the same thing.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 26, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    LDS Liberal,
    Your 8:28 p.m Pro-Communist rant made no sense.

    Then you try your usual Dig on Utah... "But Utahans can't obey the speed limit,
    let alone ask them to see to the needs of the poor, sick, or the needy"...

    But the poor, sick, and the needy do get assistance in Utah (with the combination Government and religious social services, and a people known for their giving nature).

    I don't know why you always have to put Utah down, just because we don't buy into your "the Federal Government must do it all" bunk doesn't mean we don't do anything.

    We have relatively low incomes in Utah (for many reasons), but that doesn't mean we don't see to the needs of the poor, sick, or the needy. We actually have a pretty good reputation for taking care of the needy (despite being capitalists).

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 26, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    WHAT!!! We're going to miss out on the Obama Money? I didn't even get an Obama PHONE!

    Seriously... what are states going to do when the Obama Money goes away?

    You know we have a serious national debt problem, don't you?
    So how is sending billions to States to get them to accept Obama Care going to work LONG term?

    This funding will most likely be gone in the next sequestration, or budget (IF we ever cut the budget). What do we do THEN?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    June 26, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    truthseeker,
    try per household rather than per capita and see how it comes up. we have larger households with more kids. you truly expect our 4 year olds to produce the same gross product as a 35 year old from CA?

    Try also adjusting for cost of living. Do you honestly believe you can live as well on $65k in SF as you can in midvale?

    No, Utah will remain fiscally sound and be among the leaders in job growth as long as we resist all things Obama and stick with what works.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    June 26, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    Deseret News.
    You allow these people to say the meanest things about the people of Utah and totally refuse to allow an answer to those attacks.
    Many times I have tried to comment and you have denied my answer to their outright lies.
    The people of Utah are wonderful loving and generous people.
    We help others in need around the world all the time.
    How dare these unenlightened people call us names, and how dare you allow them to without allowing for those of us who do this to defend ourselves!

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 26, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    Howard, I don't have a crystal ball so I honestly don't know if your prediction about drastic cuts in working hours will take place or not. While I'm not optimistic about the altruism of American businesses I am confident that they will do what is in their best business interest and work hours are driven by demand for products/services and supply of workers. All ready a number of wild claims made by conservative business owners have been quietly retracted because they just don't help the business.

    As the economy continues to improve I bet more and more businesses of all sizes will find it necessary to jump in and play simply because to do otherwise would hurt their business.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    June 25, 2013 11:21 p.m.

    Detroit is the victim of government ineptitude, white flight which began after the riots in 1967 and yes the car companies downsizing for cheaper labor primarily in Mexico. All of these factors combined to make Detroit what it is today, and let's say it isn't pretty but let's also be honest, it's a variety of factors which has led the Motor City to its current state.

    As I said initially, the ACA or Obamacare will have a drastic negative impact on our economy through lost hours (wages) of many people. The ones I feel will suffer the most are the lower middle class and lower class workers. They will have their hours cut so institutions (private and public) won't have to provide insurance. As far as the rest of ACA, I have no idea whether it will be good, bad or ugly. And the rub is, most people don't know either. The fact that most of the lawmakers didn't know the full scope of the bill before it became law is also problematic. It seems like we'll learn on the fly though what existed before was going downhill fast.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    June 25, 2013 10:46 p.m.

    Marxist & LDS Liberal (one and the same). I'm sure you don't ever go to Wal-Mart to purchase anything, so as to remain true to your principles of not supporting "capitalistic' selfishness. I wonder if both of you run your own businesses, or leach upon Americans by purchasing anything that 'steals' from them (think Wendy's, Macdonalds, or University classes, which are totally supported by taxes taken from those hated businesses you disdain). Socialistic Utopian followers are boring when not in power, but in power, end up as a nightmare for those unlucky enough to live (and in most cases die) under their Utopian dreams. It is the corrupt Politicians that destroyed Detroit by subsidizing them with tax loop holes, etc. until the incompetence, and lack of free market principles, eventually pulled the rug out. If anyone is to blame for what happened in Detroit it is the 'marxist' and 'liberal' thinkers that think they are smarter, more powerful, and more knowledgeable than the average citizen who yearns for freedom and opportunity to build his/her own personal 'utopia'. Those who don't learn from history repeat it.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 25, 2013 8:28 p.m.

    @bandersen
    Saint George, UT

    Evidently there are some, usually the socialists, that haven't visited the inner city of New York, Chicago, L.A., or Detroit. Haven't seen a lot of joy in those areas despite the fact that those areas have the highest dependency rate, unwed mothers, abortion, and crime are rampant. so much for the socialist utopia.
    2:45 p.m. June 25, 2013

    ========

    About as far-off base 180 wrong as could be...

    Drugs, prostitution, and robbery are all products of "Free Market Capitalism",
    Selling anything to make $$$

    Socialist/Communist Utopias are not monetary based,
    You can't sell, because there is no money and "All things are in Common",
    If you need something, you simple get it.
    There are no competition of the haves vs. the have nots,
    The is no rich, because there is no poor,
    and BTW -- IF there are not poor --
    Then there is no need to steal, deal drugs, or become a prostitutes.

    But Utahans can't obey the speed limit,
    let alone ask them to see to the needs of the poor, sick, or the needy....

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    June 25, 2013 6:24 p.m.

    re:patriot

    Where does UT rank in GDP per capita? #34 as of 2010

    CA is #12

    TX is #24

    State economies that grew faster than Utah were North Dakota (13.4 percent), Texas (4.8 percent), Oregon (3.9 percent), Washington (3.6 percent), Minnesota (3.5 percent) and California (3.5 percent)
    (SL Trib June 2013)

    Apple expects to expand its Silicon Valley workforce by nearly 50% during the next three years. The projections detailed in a report released Tuesday envision Apple hiring 7,400 more workers at its Cupertino, Calif., headquarters between now and the planned completion of a new office complex in 2016.
    (June 2013)

    keep dream'n

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 25, 2013 6:08 p.m.

    Hemlock tells us all the things ACA will do. Really? Does he/she have a crystal ball? Or is he/she simply repeating some of the garbage featured on yesterday's hate radio shows?

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 25, 2013 5:50 p.m.

    The Republican (I can't say conservative because it isn't true) misinformation here is astounding however not surprising. And the near flippant attitude of siding with a business or government agency that is massive in size but would choose to downsize it's employees hours just to avoid providing them life saving health care is heart wrenching. To side with profits or costs over the life of citizens is dumfounding.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2013 5:33 p.m.

    RE: banderson "Evidently there are some, usually the socialists, that haven't visited the inner city of New York, Chicago, L.A., or Detroit. Haven't seen a lot of joy in those areas despite the fact that those areas have the highest dependency rate, unwed mothers, abortion, and crime are rampant. so much for the socialist utopia." Indeed these are not socialist utopias. They, particularly Chicago and Detroit, are the products of disinvestment by American capital, exporting jobs to China, India, and other places.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    June 25, 2013 4:58 p.m.

    The "Unaffordable Care Act" is just another way to take from the working and give to the non working. Making sure that soon our healthcare system falls back to the dark ages. Leaches and blood letting anyone?

  • Utah Health Policy Project Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2013 4:29 p.m.

    In Utah county, one in four young people aged 18 to 25 will be eligible for Obamacare tax credits to make purchasing insurance more affordable.
    Uninsured people waiting to turn 65 and get on Medicare will finally have an option to get insurance coverage that doesn't put them in the poor house--or make them sicker and more vulnerable when they finally qualify.
    And because of the increased competition created by the new exchanges (thank Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation for this idea), insurance rates for comprehensive coverage will go down for most Utahns.
    In the end, even Utah will be saying "Thank you Obamacare" as many of our neighbors get coverage for themselves and their families.

  • kattawn ,
    June 25, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    Unless you're over 55 like me - then you're just left to die - we have no value under Obamacare. So glad my 80-year-old mother had cancer before this took effect.

  • BYUteAggie Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2013 3:53 p.m.

    "Utah, which has turned a cold shoulder to people who need help the most..."

    Hmm, I wonder how high a percentage of Utah's general population donates regularly to charity? Yeah, we turn a cold shoulder alright.

    *sarcasm

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 25, 2013 3:23 p.m.

    What the article failed to mention is the fact that Utah already had an insurance pool for those who are deemed uninsurable by the insurance companies. That was set up quite a while ago under the HIPA Utah insurance program.

    The other thing that many people and states have yet to figure out is how they are going to pay for the Medicaid expansion. According to the Medicaid web site, for 3 years the states will get 100% funding, it then will drop to 90%. Who is going to make up that difference, and where is the federal government going to get the 90% from?

    What the supporters of the ACA forget is the fact that it has significantly raised premiums, which has caused us to lose many benefits. See "Obama's health care law to raise claims cost 32 percent" fron the AP. If the ACA was supposed to make things cheaper, how does adding 32% to the cost of insurance help?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 25, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    re:marxist

    Last time I checked Marxist, the Texas economy is #1 in the nation. Oh and your socialist states run by Democrat's (California, Michigan, New York) are sinking in the mud and people and business's are fleeing these states. Utah is in the top 10 I believe in the nation as far as the economy goes. Interesting that those states run by liberals are the states doing the worst economically. I wonder why?? Rick Perry - governor of Texas has been on recruiting trips to California, Michigan and other liberal stink holes - recruiting BUSINESSES. Yes sir - stay in a liberal states and pay 60% in taxes. What an incentive!!! Oh and by the way - your talk of the US breaking up is only a nice dream. Let the socialist states go their way and let those other states like Texas and Utah who CARRY all of the other hand out states goes their way and in ten years let's see who is still afloat economically. Any guesses? As I said - a nice dream.

  • Danish American Payson, UT
    June 25, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    Does ACCORN ring a bell? They were involved in all types of illegal and voter fraud. Access America is ACCORN by just a different name. Follow the money. Who is funding Access America? None other than George Soros who hates our Country.

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2013 2:59 p.m.

    @Marxist
    This article is about health care and insightful responses are useful. Why the DN censors allow your off topic and blathering comments remains a mystery. A colleague recently remarked that the most futile job search in the world was for a Marxist economist.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 25, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    "states that accept generous federal funding"

    That so-called generous federal funding is NOT a long term hand out to states. This is only a temporary funding measure and then the states themselves will have to come up with the money to run their exchanges. The fed's do NOT keep the gravy train rolling for ever. So - where does UTAH come up with that money once the fed's hand out stops? Recall the federal govt is already 17 trillion in debt so I am sorry to say that the money tree that liberals (like the writer of this article) like to pick from is nothing but a mirage soon to disappear. Yes sir - free money for all - the slogan for socialism and all is well until you run out of other peoples money.

    By the way - the ugliness of Obamacare has already started with business's and school districts now REQUIRED to offer health care. Recall that it doesn't matter whether you elect to enroll in the health care plan - the school district for example still has to go to the state legislature and get the money which translates to less full time employees.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2013 2:53 p.m.

    Touting the good half of the ACA, non deniability, portability, extending coverage to college students age 26, etc is fine. Why not talk about the bad half also, it is not universal coverage, it creates long waiting times for those on Medicare and even longer for Medicaid, costing 3 times what the president said the ACA is not affordable, not enough primary care providers, etc.? The lower half of society pays little taxes, the highest part has many options and it is the middle class that will carry an increased burden.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    June 25, 2013 2:45 p.m.

    Evidently there are some, usually the socialists, that haven't visited the inner city of New York, Chicago, L.A., or Detroit. Haven't seen a lot of joy in those areas despite the fact that those areas have the highest dependency rate, unwed mothers, abortion, and crime are rampant. so much for the socialist utopia.

  • patriot vet Cedar City, UT
    June 25, 2013 2:21 p.m.

    Stuff, let me respond to your comment about choice. Much of our lives is beyond our "choice". Indeed, who our parents are, where we are raised, what our genetics are, and what we believe is essentially determined for us.

    Even our politics, which you most clearly express.

    But this healthcare program is not so much about YOU choosing as it is about giving all Americans a choice. Many do not have a choice...many simply don't have health insurance. And many don't care, as long as they have theirs.

    But in America, fortunately, there is a strong sense of caring for our fellowpersons.That is what this is all about.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    Maybe it's time for the United States to break up into some pieces. Utah would join the very enlightened south, e.g. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi. Utah is still a hick backward theocracy.

  • stuff Provo, UT
    June 25, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    What a condescending, derisive article written by some out-of-state, liberal. Go ahead, author, your faux-charity, shaming and mocking don't change the truth.

    The truth is that the ACA is damning, controlling, limiting, oppressive government program which grinds on all of us for its financial support. The government takes more from us and we end up with less in terms of real service and health care. Personal choice will eventually be abolished. Just watch. It will be abolished. Greedy, power-hungry men and women seek public office solely for the purpose of taking our money and enslaving us to their 'caring' programs. That's the truth.

    The old saying, "the devil is in the details" is 100% applicable to the ACA. Irresponsible congress men and women voted for its passage without even reading it. That is shameful.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    The economy is turning in 2014. The program was timed just right. When is succeeds, the tea party will disappear.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    To banderson: "Where the yoke of government dependency is the highest, there is more crime, less joy, and less freedom!"

    A recent study examined the wealth held by the middle class throughout the world. The U.S. ranked 27th, most of those horrible socialistic European countries beat us. And if you think crime rates in Western Europe are higher than ours, you are extremely misinformed. A resident of Western Europe today has the lowest chance of dying a violent death than any other humans in history.

  • patriot vet Cedar City, UT
    June 25, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    The predominant thinking in the patriarchal society here in Utah is strongly conservative. In this case (health care) we need to change our insurance system to accomodate everyone. Health insurance should not be optional, because as soon as someone is sick or hurt, they get health care. So, we all must chip in to insure everyone.

    In future years, Utah will accept the ObamaCare system. We'll get used to it. We'll add it to the long list of our socialized programs: Defense, Education, Highways, Public Lands, Law Enforcement, Car and Driver Insurance, Legal Representation, etc. Yes, we have many benefits provided by our taxes and shared by all citizens. It's a great nation. And universal healthcare will be a great improvement.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 25, 2013 12:27 p.m.

    "There's no free lunch. Someone will have to pay for all these subsidies."

    Mark, do I have news for you.

    We are already paying for those people who don't have insurance for whatever the reasons may be. ACA will help us all by doing exactly what conservatives scream for constantly. Does the old Tea Party battle cry of "Let them pay their way" ring any bells?

    No, of course not. You've been fooled by propaganda into believing that an idea that originally came from conservatives is bad because this time it's from someone who is regarded as a liberal.

    Ah, well . . . .

  • Mark l SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 25, 2013 12:08 p.m.

    There's no free lunch. Someone will have to pay for all these subsidies. I suppose all we have to do is get the rich to pay their fair share and all our problems will be solved.

    The other option is that insurance companies go bankrupt and democrats will finally get their wish: single payer national health care.

  • John20000 Cedar Hills, UT
    June 25, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    Why is expanding Medicaid a positive thing? Shouldn't we be trying to figure out ways for people to get themselves out of the safety net and back on their feet?

    It seems like the author thinks the more people caught in the net the better.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    June 25, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    A lie repeated unfortunately hurts those who are uneducated or unable to differentiate the difference between the truth and a lie. Virtually all major European nations have higher levels of public spending than the United States, and all are poorer! Where the yoke of government dependency is the highest, there is more crime, less joy, and less freedom! And yet, we have those who will continue to promote more government control over our lives in the vain and foolish 'hope' that government knows best, that somehow America will be different if we just give up all our freedoms and let the government make all our decisions, and that real 'joy' comes from letting someone else dictate to you how to act, feel, and think! Anyone who espouses such ideas ought to be ashamed.

  • dalefarr South Jordan, Utah
    June 25, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    So far most of the comments have nothing to do with whether Utah should participate in the expansion of medicaid. Medicaid administrative costs are only a fraction of the administrative costs in the private insurance industry. There is no chaos or exploding costs for those states who expand medicaid. The reduction of employee hours will exist regardless of medicaid expansion. And insurance rates have skyrocketed and will continue to go up regardless of whether Utah expands medicaid. Without the expansion of medicaid those who work less than 30 hours (like the DI workers) simply won't have access to health care.

  • Shawnm750 West Jordan, UT
    June 25, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    Yeah, all these added benefits sound good...in theory. But, all that added administration costs money, and as the government has proven so effectively in the past, it never runs as efficiently as initially promised. I would add that the 4th thing to watch for is that as this program balloons and spirals out of control, Utah will actually be better off than other states when they see their government funding cut back (or simply cut completely.)

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 25, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    Of course. But if our lawmakers didn't have taxpayer supported health care for them and their families -- with a promise of lifetime care if they serve for ten years -- it would be a different story.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    June 25, 2013 7:51 a.m.

    I wish I could "miss out" on the chaos, the mandates and exploding costs of Obamacare!

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    June 25, 2013 6:50 a.m.

    Really? Miss out on what? The so-called Affordable Care Act is anything but affordable. Everyone's insurance rates will skyrocket and the only one's who make out on this are the insurance companies with their higher premiums.

    This is just another example of a socialist with big ideas that don't work.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    June 25, 2013 12:29 a.m.

    My first thought on Obamacare is that I have a lot of friends who hours will be cut down to less than 30 so they don't have businesses and many government entities won't have to provide insurance benefits. That is the reality of many people and I don't think this is good for their personal economies...