To "NeilT" the problem is that the fascist approach to the ACA benefits
nobody in the end. Lets look at it from a benefits vs. finances sort of
view.If you can get all of the healthcare coverage that you could
ever want, with minimal co-pays, would you pay $20,000/yr for that coverage? Or
would you pay $10,000/yr for an insurance plan that covers less and requires
higher co-pays?You may get more benefits, and there may be some good
things in there, but each time that you add more benefits it will cost you in a
Recently the ACA was the topic of discussion at work. Despite the overall
disdain for the ACA everyone person present admitted their were aspects of the
ACA they supported and agreed with. Romney promised to dismantle the ACA his
first day in office and he lost the election. If Republicans had realized this
and came up with a better version of the ACA that was more acceptable to the
general public we wouldn't be having this contentious debate.
TruthseekerSLO, CA3:38You criticize Utahns for
trash-talking other States. Then you take a go at another of your usual
anti-Utah rants. Is that not hypocritical?You may be here just to
comment on issues... but you sure seem to talk Utah down a lot.
re:LostinDCCA contributes 13% of the nation's GDP. Utah
less than 1%.CA still beats UT in GDP per household ($157,555. vs
$142,861) But I think it's great that UT tries and
succeeds to be fiscally sound. I hope they continue to prosper. I hope all
states and U.S. citizens can prosper, provide for their families and have
economic stability. But what I see here on DN comment boards is the need of
Utahns to trash-talk other states--especially CA. Why does it
happen? For sure, people tend to be "ethnocentric." I grew
up in UT. I'm well aware of the underlying inferiority complex that has
long existed among Utahns/UT Mormons and the need to flaunt "successes,"
tout Mormon celebrities etc. And/orIt seems Utahns or Mormon
conservatives tend to look at CA as a great evil liberal bastion and example of
pure liberalism--despite the fact that CA is extremely diverse politically,
religiously, socially, racially, and has had more Republican than Democratic
governors etc. Comparing UT to CA is comparing apples to oranges.
Every state has pros/cons.I'm here to comment on issues, I will
also defend CA.
pragmatistferlife:For example, every school district in Utah is
cutting their non-certified teachers to less than 30 hours. This has been the
news for quite some time, not sure how you missed it. I'm sure Utah is not
the only state going down this direction. The fines for violating this are
immense. Expect some private businesses to hire more people but keep them less
than 30 hours. Again, the example I write about is no urban legend, thousands
of school employees have been notified across our state that their hours will be
cut starting in July. I'm sure other government agencies and many private
small businesses are doing the same thing.
LDS Liberal,Your 8:28 p.m Pro-Communist rant made no sense. Then you try your usual Dig on Utah... "But Utahans can't obey the
speed limit,let alone ask them to see to the needs of the poor, sick, or
the needy"...But the poor, sick, and the needy do get assistance
in Utah (with the combination Government and religious social services, and a
people known for their giving nature).I don't know why you
always have to put Utah down, just because we don't buy into your "the
Federal Government must do it all" bunk doesn't mean we don't do
anything.We have relatively low incomes in Utah (for many reasons),
but that doesn't mean we don't see to the needs of the poor, sick, or
the needy. We actually have a pretty good reputation for taking care of the
needy (despite being capitalists).
WHAT!!! We're going to miss out on the Obama Money? I didn't even
get an Obama PHONE!Seriously... what are states going to do when the
Obama Money goes away?You know we have a serious national debt
problem, don't you?So how is sending billions to States to get them
to accept Obama Care going to work LONG term?This funding will most
likely be gone in the next sequestration, or budget (IF we ever cut the budget).
What do we do THEN?
truthseeker,try per household rather than per capita and see how it comes
up. we have larger households with more kids. you truly expect our 4 year olds
to produce the same gross product as a 35 year old from CA?Try also
adjusting for cost of living. Do you honestly believe you can live as well on
$65k in SF as you can in midvale?No, Utah will remain fiscally sound
and be among the leaders in job growth as long as we resist all things Obama and
stick with what works.
Deseret News.You allow these people to say the meanest things about the
people of Utah and totally refuse to allow an answer to those attacks.Many
times I have tried to comment and you have denied my answer to their outright
lies.The people of Utah are wonderful loving and generous people.We
help others in need around the world all the time.How dare these
unenlightened people call us names, and how dare you allow them to without
allowing for those of us who do this to defend ourselves!
Howard, I don't have a crystal ball so I honestly don't know if your
prediction about drastic cuts in working hours will take place or not. While
I'm not optimistic about the altruism of American businesses I am confident
that they will do what is in their best business interest and work hours are
driven by demand for products/services and supply of workers. All ready a
number of wild claims made by conservative business owners have been quietly
retracted because they just don't help the business. As the
economy continues to improve I bet more and more businesses of all sizes will
find it necessary to jump in and play simply because to do otherwise would hurt
Detroit is the victim of government ineptitude, white flight which began after
the riots in 1967 and yes the car companies downsizing for cheaper labor
primarily in Mexico. All of these factors combined to make Detroit what it is
today, and let's say it isn't pretty but let's also be honest,
it's a variety of factors which has led the Motor City to its current
state. As I said initially, the ACA or Obamacare will have a drastic
negative impact on our economy through lost hours (wages) of many people. The
ones I feel will suffer the most are the lower middle class and lower class
workers. They will have their hours cut so institutions (private and public)
won't have to provide insurance. As far as the rest of ACA, I have no idea
whether it will be good, bad or ugly. And the rub is, most people don't
know either. The fact that most of the lawmakers didn't know the full
scope of the bill before it became law is also problematic. It seems like
we'll learn on the fly though what existed before was going downhill fast.
Marxist & LDS Liberal (one and the same). I'm sure you don't ever
go to Wal-Mart to purchase anything, so as to remain true to your principles of
not supporting "capitalistic' selfishness. I wonder if both of you run
your own businesses, or leach upon Americans by purchasing anything that
'steals' from them (think Wendy's, Macdonalds, or University
classes, which are totally supported by taxes taken from those hated businesses
you disdain). Socialistic Utopian followers are boring when not in power, but
in power, end up as a nightmare for those unlucky enough to live (and in most
cases die) under their Utopian dreams. It is the corrupt Politicians that
destroyed Detroit by subsidizing them with tax loop holes, etc. until the
incompetence, and lack of free market principles, eventually pulled the rug out.
If anyone is to blame for what happened in Detroit it is the
'marxist' and 'liberal' thinkers that think they are
smarter, more powerful, and more knowledgeable than the average citizen who
yearns for freedom and opportunity to build his/her own personal
'utopia'. Those who don't learn from history repeat it.
@bandersenSaint George, UTEvidently there are some, usually
the socialists, that haven't visited the inner city of New York, Chicago,
L.A., or Detroit. Haven't seen a lot of joy in those areas despite the fact
that those areas have the highest dependency rate, unwed mothers, abortion, and
crime are rampant. so much for the socialist utopia.2:45 p.m. June 25,
2013========About as far-off base 180 wrong as could
be...Drugs, prostitution, and robbery are all products of "Free
Market Capitalism", Selling anything to make $$$Socialist/Communist Utopias are not monetary based, You can't sell,
because there is no money and "All things are in Common", If you
need something, you simple get it.There are no competition of the haves
vs. the have nots, The is no rich, because there is no poor, and BTW
-- IF there are not poor -- Then there is no need to steal, deal drugs, or
become a prostitutes.But Utahans can't obey the speed limit,
let alone ask them to see to the needs of the poor, sick, or the needy....
re:patriotWhere does UT rank in GDP per capita? #34 as of 2010CA is #12TX is #24State economies that grew
faster than Utah were North Dakota (13.4 percent), Texas (4.8 percent), Oregon
(3.9 percent), Washington (3.6 percent), Minnesota (3.5 percent) and California
(3.5 percent)(SL Trib June 2013)Apple expects to expand its
Silicon Valley workforce by nearly 50% during the next three years. The
projections detailed in a report released Tuesday envision Apple hiring 7,400
more workers at its Cupertino, Calif., headquarters between now and the planned
completion of a new office complex in 2016.(June 2013)keep
Hemlock tells us all the things ACA will do. Really? Does he/she have a
crystal ball? Or is he/she simply repeating some of the garbage featured on
yesterday's hate radio shows?
The Republican (I can't say conservative because it isn't true)
misinformation here is astounding however not surprising. And the near flippant
attitude of siding with a business or government agency that is massive in size
but would choose to downsize it's employees hours just to avoid providing
them life saving health care is heart wrenching. To side with profits or costs
over the life of citizens is dumfounding.
RE: banderson "Evidently there are some, usually the socialists, that
haven't visited the inner city of New York, Chicago, L.A., or Detroit.
Haven't seen a lot of joy in those areas despite the fact that those areas
have the highest dependency rate, unwed mothers, abortion, and crime are
rampant. so much for the socialist utopia." Indeed these are not socialist
utopias. They, particularly Chicago and Detroit, are the products of
disinvestment by American capital, exporting jobs to China, India, and other
The "Unaffordable Care Act" is just another way to take from the working
and give to the non working. Making sure that soon our healthcare system falls
back to the dark ages. Leaches and blood letting anyone?
In Utah county, one in four young people aged 18 to 25 will be eligible for
Obamacare tax credits to make purchasing insurance more affordable. Uninsured people waiting to turn 65 and get on Medicare will finally have an
option to get insurance coverage that doesn't put them in the poor
house--or make them sicker and more vulnerable when they finally qualify.And because of the increased competition created by the new exchanges (thank
Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation for this idea), insurance rates for
comprehensive coverage will go down for most Utahns.In the end, even Utah
will be saying "Thank you Obamacare" as many of our neighbors get
coverage for themselves and their families.
Unless you're over 55 like me - then you're just left to die - we have
no value under Obamacare. So glad my 80-year-old mother had cancer before this
"Utah, which has turned a cold shoulder to people who need help the
most..."Hmm, I wonder how high a percentage of Utah's
general population donates regularly to charity? Yeah, we turn a cold shoulder
What the article failed to mention is the fact that Utah already had an
insurance pool for those who are deemed uninsurable by the insurance companies.
That was set up quite a while ago under the HIPA Utah insurance program.The other thing that many people and states have yet to figure out is
how they are going to pay for the Medicaid expansion. According to the Medicaid
web site, for 3 years the states will get 100% funding, it then will drop to
90%. Who is going to make up that difference, and where is the federal
government going to get the 90% from?What the supporters of the ACA
forget is the fact that it has significantly raised premiums, which has caused
us to lose many benefits. See "Obama's health care law to raise claims
cost 32 percent" fron the AP. If the ACA was supposed to make things
cheaper, how does adding 32% to the cost of insurance help?
re:marxistLast time I checked Marxist, the Texas economy is #1 in
the nation. Oh and your socialist states run by Democrat's (California,
Michigan, New York) are sinking in the mud and people and business's are
fleeing these states. Utah is in the top 10 I believe in the nation as far as
the economy goes. Interesting that those states run by liberals are the states
doing the worst economically. I wonder why?? Rick Perry - governor of Texas has
been on recruiting trips to California, Michigan and other liberal stink holes -
recruiting BUSINESSES. Yes sir - stay in a liberal states and pay 60% in taxes.
What an incentive!!! Oh and by the way - your talk of the US breaking up is only
a nice dream. Let the socialist states go their way and let those other states
like Texas and Utah who CARRY all of the other hand out states goes their way
and in ten years let's see who is still afloat economically. Any guesses?
As I said - a nice dream.
Does ACCORN ring a bell? They were involved in all types of illegal and voter
fraud. Access America is ACCORN by just a different name. Follow the money.
Who is funding Access America? None other than George Soros who hates our
@MarxistThis article is about health care and insightful responses are
useful. Why the DN censors allow your off topic and blathering comments remains
a mystery. A colleague recently remarked that the most futile job search in the
world was for a Marxist economist.
"states that accept generous federal funding"That so-called
generous federal funding is NOT a long term hand out to states. This is only a
temporary funding measure and then the states themselves will have to come up
with the money to run their exchanges. The fed's do NOT keep the gravy
train rolling for ever. So - where does UTAH come up with that money once the
fed's hand out stops? Recall the federal govt is already 17 trillion in
debt so I am sorry to say that the money tree that liberals (like the writer of
this article) like to pick from is nothing but a mirage soon to disappear. Yes
sir - free money for all - the slogan for socialism and all is well until you
run out of other peoples money. By the way - the ugliness of
Obamacare has already started with business's and school districts now
REQUIRED to offer health care. Recall that it doesn't matter whether you
elect to enroll in the health care plan - the school district for example still
has to go to the state legislature and get the money which translates to less
full time employees.
Touting the good half of the ACA, non deniability, portability, extending
coverage to college students age 26, etc is fine. Why not talk about the bad
half also, it is not universal coverage, it creates long waiting times for those
on Medicare and even longer for Medicaid, costing 3 times what the president
said the ACA is not affordable, not enough primary care providers, etc.? The
lower half of society pays little taxes, the highest part has many options and
it is the middle class that will carry an increased burden.
Evidently there are some, usually the socialists, that haven't visited the
inner city of New York, Chicago, L.A., or Detroit. Haven't seen a lot of
joy in those areas despite the fact that those areas have the highest dependency
rate, unwed mothers, abortion, and crime are rampant. so much for the socialist
Stuff, let me respond to your comment about choice. Much of our lives is beyond
our "choice". Indeed, who our parents are, where we are raised, what
our genetics are, and what we believe is essentially determined for us.Even our politics, which you most clearly express.But this
healthcare program is not so much about YOU choosing as it is about giving all
Americans a choice. Many do not have a choice...many simply don't have
health insurance. And many don't care, as long as they have theirs. But in America, fortunately, there is a strong sense of caring for our
fellowpersons.That is what this is all about.
Maybe it's time for the United States to break up into some pieces. Utah
would join the very enlightened south, e.g. Texas, Alabama, Mississippi. Utah
is still a hick backward theocracy.
What a condescending, derisive article written by some out-of-state, liberal. Go
ahead, author, your faux-charity, shaming and mocking don't change the
truth. The truth is that the ACA is damning, controlling, limiting,
oppressive government program which grinds on all of us for its financial
support. The government takes more from us and we end up with less in terms of
real service and health care. Personal choice will eventually be abolished. Just
watch. It will be abolished. Greedy, power-hungry men and women seek public
office solely for the purpose of taking our money and enslaving us to their
'caring' programs. That's the truth. The old saying,
"the devil is in the details" is 100% applicable to the ACA.
Irresponsible congress men and women voted for its passage without even reading
it. That is shameful.
The economy is turning in 2014. The program was timed just right. When is
succeeds, the tea party will disappear.
To banderson: "Where the yoke of government dependency is the highest, there
is more crime, less joy, and less freedom!"A recent study
examined the wealth held by the middle class throughout the world. The U.S.
ranked 27th, most of those horrible socialistic European countries beat us. And
if you think crime rates in Western Europe are higher than ours, you are
extremely misinformed. A resident of Western Europe today has the lowest chance
of dying a violent death than any other humans in history.
The predominant thinking in the patriarchal society here in Utah is strongly
conservative. In this case (health care) we need to change our insurance system
to accomodate everyone. Health insurance should not be optional, because as
soon as someone is sick or hurt, they get health care. So, we all must chip in
to insure everyone.In future years, Utah will accept the ObamaCare
system. We'll get used to it. We'll add it to the long list of our
socialized programs: Defense, Education, Highways, Public Lands, Law
Enforcement, Car and Driver Insurance, Legal Representation, etc. Yes, we have
many benefits provided by our taxes and shared by all citizens. It's a
great nation. And universal healthcare will be a great improvement.
"There's no free lunch. Someone will have to pay for all these
subsidies."Mark, do I have news for you.We are
already paying for those people who don't have insurance for whatever the
reasons may be. ACA will help us all by doing exactly what conservatives scream
for constantly. Does the old Tea Party battle cry of "Let them pay their
way" ring any bells?No, of course not. You've been fooled
by propaganda into believing that an idea that originally came from
conservatives is bad because this time it's from someone who is regarded as
a liberal.Ah, well . . . .
There's no free lunch. Someone will have to pay for all these subsidies.
I suppose all we have to do is get the rich to pay their fair share and all our
problems will be solved.The other option is that insurance companies
go bankrupt and democrats will finally get their wish: single payer national
Why is expanding Medicaid a positive thing? Shouldn't we be trying to
figure out ways for people to get themselves out of the safety net and back on
their feet?It seems like the author thinks the more people caught in
the net the better.
A lie repeated unfortunately hurts those who are uneducated or unable to
differentiate the difference between the truth and a lie. Virtually all major
European nations have higher levels of public spending than the United States,
and all are poorer! Where the yoke of government dependency is the highest,
there is more crime, less joy, and less freedom! And yet, we have those who
will continue to promote more government control over our lives in the vain and
foolish 'hope' that government knows best, that somehow America will
be different if we just give up all our freedoms and let the government make all
our decisions, and that real 'joy' comes from letting someone else
dictate to you how to act, feel, and think! Anyone who espouses such ideas
ought to be ashamed.
So far most of the comments have nothing to do with whether Utah should
participate in the expansion of medicaid. Medicaid administrative costs are only
a fraction of the administrative costs in the private insurance industry. There
is no chaos or exploding costs for those states who expand medicaid. The
reduction of employee hours will exist regardless of medicaid expansion. And
insurance rates have skyrocketed and will continue to go up regardless of
whether Utah expands medicaid. Without the expansion of medicaid those who work
less than 30 hours (like the DI workers) simply won't have access to health
Yeah, all these added benefits sound good...in theory. But, all that added
administration costs money, and as the government has proven so effectively in
the past, it never runs as efficiently as initially promised. I would add that
the 4th thing to watch for is that as this program balloons and spirals out of
control, Utah will actually be better off than other states when they see their
government funding cut back (or simply cut completely.)
Of course. But if our lawmakers didn't have taxpayer supported health care
for them and their families -- with a promise of lifetime care if they serve for
ten years -- it would be a different story.
I wish I could "miss out" on the chaos, the mandates and exploding
costs of Obamacare!
Really? Miss out on what? The so-called Affordable Care Act is anything but
affordable. Everyone's insurance rates will skyrocket and the only
one's who make out on this are the insurance companies with their higher
premiums.This is just another example of a socialist with big ideas
that don't work.
My first thought on Obamacare is that I have a lot of friends who hours will be
cut down to less than 30 so they don't have businesses and many government
entities won't have to provide insurance benefits. That is the reality of
many people and I don't think this is good for their personal economies...