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Comments about ‘4 men sue Boy Scouts, LDS church in Idaho’

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Published: Monday, June 24 2013 4:59 p.m. MDT

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1978
Salt Lake City, UT

@amazondoc

"Statistics from the Child Advocacy Center show that 75% of all male child molesters are "married or have consenting sexual relationships (with women)" and that "only about 4 percent of same-sex abuse involves homosexual perpetrators"."

Another way to look at these statistics is that 25% of all male child molesters are not involved in consenting sesual relationships with women. An unknown percentage of the 75% could also be bisexual.

Another study in this area was quoted in "Archives of Sexual Behavior". The study was performed by W.D. Erickson in "Behaviors Patterns of Child Molestors". In his study of 229 convicted child molestors, 86% considered themselves as homosexuals or bisexuals.

kargirl
Sacramento, CA

Thirty, forty, even only twenty years ago, did we not all think of our leaders as pretty much the reigning authority figures, especially in Church, and especially as young as ten, twelve, fourteen, in our youth programs? And did our parents not encourage this in us? Most of these adults never gave us reason for doubt. And truth be told, they were bigger, stronger, smarter, even funny sometimes. They were often the ones we looked up to. So why would we not be asking ourselves, as these boys--or any victims might--who was going to believe us? Who would believe that we didn't run away, if it were true? How do we know what scenarios played over and over in the heads of these men when they were so young then? What would YOU, dear reader, be thinking? I can't begin to imagine, were I in one of their places. And considering that it was same gender, and given the way of thinking at the time, and that it was Idaho, and most were LDS, do you really think the boys would have been believed?

hermounts
Pleasanton, CA

They really shouldn't be allowed to sue this long after the fact

dennyofoz
Australia, 00

Very sad and should be dealt with, if possible, if proven to be true. I think it should be mentioned though that in the cases where the alleged abuse took place 3 or 4 decades ago, the scout leaders, BSA officials, church leaders, etc, in many cases may be dead by now and unable to defend themselves.

K
Mchenry, IL

Funny. If it were the catholic church would your opinion be the same?

They could be alerting prosecution of the men involved.

Maui
WAILUKU, HI

To Mainly Me,

I truly understand the deep wounds of abuse but cannot understand in anyway shape or form how money unearned will make the hurt go away. Especially after so many years. Raise awareness but suing for money is beyond ridiculous.

Little Andy
Tremonton, UT

Money chasers... This many years later??? If you want money let's hear your names.

jimhale
Eugene, OR

We have no idea of the truth of these accusations, but the incidents are appalling to us all.

One can only hope that, if true, each are dealt with fairly. It sounds like each took place before Scouting's two-deep leadership rule was widely followed.

If the accusations are true, these and others like them must be seen against the larger question of who can be trusted to be an adult Scout leader. The BSA recently made the decision to affirm that youth with a same-gender attraction can be Scouts so long as they do not act on that attraction. But they also decided to continue the ban on homosexual Scout leaders.

Gay rights advocates see that last decision as being only temporary.

Gay rights advocates strenuously argue that alleged perpetrators such as these are examples of pedophilia but not examples of homosexuality.

In the Nineteenth Century, men at 18 or 21 often married women of 16. We now consider that to not be good social policy.

It is tough to see the abuse of male teenagers by older men as being anything other than homosexual (or bi-sexual) recruitment - taken past the current boundaries of propriety.

Contrarius
Lebanon, TN

@1978 --

"25% of all abuse occurs by people not engaged in a heterosexual lifestyle."

25% are single. **Single**. "Single" does not mean "homosexual".

"W.D. Erickson in "Behaviors Patterns of Child Molestors". In his study of 229 convicted child molestors, 86% considered themselves as homosexuals or bisexuals."

Phhhhht. Erickson used self-reports by the perpetrators as his only measure, which most other sex-offender researchers know better than to do, because -- guess what -- pedophiles would rather LIE than admit that they're pedophiles.

More credible sources -- including the American Psychological Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Academy of Child Psychiatrists and the Child Welfare League of America -- all acknowledge that gay men are NOT more likely to molest children than heterosexual men.

AN Groth, former director of the Sex Offender Program at the Connecticut Department of Corrections, has said: "my studies have indicated that homosexual males pose LESS risk of sexual harm to children (both male and female)--from both an absolute and a percentage incidence rate--than heterosexual males."

Freund (1989), Jenny (1994), other studies, and -- of course -- the experts on the subject all contradict Erickson's finding.

Nice try, though!

Rebel
,

I was molested at the age of 12 but somehow I have let it go and moved on. 25 years later to join the LDS church I had forgiven this man and others who had brought me pain and suffering. I never molested a child but had done things to others that I sought forgiveness for.
I had hoped recently that the LDS church would withdraw from he BSA but the Prophet has spoken and I am moving on.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Reading the article, I see no evidence for a claim that the Church was aware of these specific cases. The suit seems to boil down to "LDS Church leaders were aware that molestation had occurred in the boy scouts at some point, somewhere, therefore their failure to stop it ever occurring again makes them financially liable."

This is very different from the alleged set of events in some Catholic cases. Where it was alleged that someone abused, it was reported, and then they were moved. This is not alleged here.

It is unclear from the article that any of the events involved here were ever reported to leaders.

They may have been. I don't know. However I am not very convinced. The fact that the boy scouts tracked some abuse by some people does not show they should have known that the specific people involved here were potential abusers. It seems at least at first glance this is a suit alleging people should be held responsible for not making a system with no problems.

That said, I have to also say that I am unpersuaded by some arguments brought against Catholic leader.

Rustymommy
Clovis, NM

I'm sorry for the victims, the BSA and the LDS Church. What a mess! But to some extent, it sounds like a deep pockets grab to me. Why is is that these 4 "victims" are so anxious to blame the LDS church and the BSA, but no mention of the actual names of the perpetrators is given in the article? Were the perpetrators accused, arrested, or otherwise confronted? I don't see any mention of that in the article. Is an organization guilty if they do not know about an abusive act? Would any of these victims like to be held to that same standard with their coworkers or children or spouse? At the point that the "victims" came forward and first reported the incidents, that is the point at which BSA and LDS leaders became responsible to stop further incidents. Before that it was between the perpetrators and the "victims". If BSA or LDS church allowed further interaction after they were informed, then they deserve to take responsibility. But first, the perpetrators need to be brought to justice.

DavidJ
Branson, MO

I agree. This is about money and not about justice.

tgurd
Gonzales, LA

I agree with the other people who opined if this is to proceed then names of the preportartiors need to brought out as well as evidence and not just what someone says, like one said its sounds more like a money scam than anything else. I say what they say on the car commercials, show me the facts.

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