Another sad example of why the BSA recently ruled as they did in regards to
A dearth of information in this press release. For instance, when were these
alleged incidences supposed to have taken place... and under what circumstances?
Also, for what reasons are these alleged victims hiding their identity? None of
that was explained at all.
I can't figure why the BSA won't allow gay leaders.
Gay or straight - good men (or women) will not allow these things to happen.
Unfortunately even with the BSA precautions bad things do happen. 41 years ago?
Go to counseling, build a bridge, get over it. I hope these men can come to
grips with what happened, confront the actual perps and start building a healthy
life for themselves.
Why didn't they bring this up until now? I hope the courts see it as the
money grab it is. It's difficult to believe these men haven't come to
grips with it in 41 years. I'm not saying it wouldn't be traumatic
but 41 years? Give me a break.
If true this is sad and the offenders should be prosecuted if possible. But this
was so long ago that to me it looks more like a way to make some money. Find
the old leaders and deal with them. But I question the law suit this many years
later. Sounds like lawyers in need of a paycheck.
Story makes much more sense now that more info has been revealed and the
original story made longer.
christopher b.Yeah, that is EXACTLY why.Despite countless studies
andoverwhelming evidence to the contrary....
Assuming they are telling the truth about abuse, no amount of money will make
that experience go away. In my opinion, they should only get enough to cover
therapy. Honestly after so long how can they win? there is no evidence only his
word verses another. Shouldn't the statute of limitations kicked in by now.
If they needed help they should have brought it up much sooner not decades
later. At this point they just want money let get rich by suing organizations. I
know the LDS Church will pay for or get you counseling if you ask. so its
obvious it not about getting help.
I echo the "moneygrab" sentiment. Not naming the perpetrators, but
suing the organizations, says, "We're after the deep pocket." No
one is saying the abuse didn't happen, but after this length of time, this
isn't about recovery the way they are going about it.
@im4kids"Go to counseling, build a bridge, get over it."Have you ever been raped? Or sexually abused? I'm a
male survivor of rape and molestation from 50 years ago and you don't just
get over it. My abusers were one male and two females. This type of abuse
changes you permanently. No amount of counseling or happy happy, joy joy
thoughts will ever change what happened to me. I'm over most of it, but
I'm forever changed. I ask myself, "What would I be like now if I had
never been raped?"I still have problems and the occasional
nightmare. I don't trust people and I have social phobia. To say your
comment is a bit insensitive would be the classic British understatement.
Would that we could find perfect leaders in every instance for BSA, and all
other institutions. If / when such incidents do happen, however (and once
proven to be such in the only court system in the world in which one might be
fairly judged), those involved must be held fully accountable. But
that relies on an awfully big "might".
Can any amount of passed time relinquish the scope of punishment and
renumeration? Abuse and anquish suggests otherwise
Just curious - why wasn't the Elks Club in Lewiston included in the
How can the LDS church or the Boy Scouts possibly defend themselves against
these allegations? The perps are probably dead after so many years. There is
certainly no physical evidence, unless there are "identifying markings"
on the perps.This will become a case of the word of the alleged
victims against that of the two organizations.I also fail to
understand why our court system insists on holding people and organizations
responsible for things that other people did. Organizations can only do so much.
They can screen leaders and youth. They can institute a buddy system. There is
not way to prevent people from making false accusations.If I were
the judge I would through the case out after so many decades. If the witnesses
are dead you cannot discover the truth.
Sad part is there are still some people that cover it up or deal with it only in
the Church to protect leaders or people well connected so they won't be
prosecuted. It is a copout to say they have just learned a lot the past few
years about dealing with it. They did not want to deal with it until they were
forced to deal with it from lawsuits. Even then it has taken many for them to
get the message that protecting kids is more important than protecting adults.
Sounds like to me that this case will be summarily dismissed. I hope the
defendants file a motion for sanctions. It will be a piece of cake to get the
sanctions imposed upon these plaintiff lawyers.
The LDS Church does not "turn a blind eye", and has absolutely ZERO
tolerance in these types of matters. I believe it will be extremely difficult to
implicate, or prove The Mormon Church was negligent. As to the individual scout
leaders, that may be a different story.The plaintiff's
attorneys are going for deep pockets. Will be interesting to follow this one.
Folks... I agree it sounds like a money grab, but like in the Penn State case,
there may be circumstances here we don't have right now. We don't
know how far up the authority chain knowledge of these events went, and what
actions were not taken back then, that should have.At this point, I
am willing to give all the parties on both sides the benefit of the doubt.That said, stuff like this is exactly why I try to avoid working with
you any more. How do you defend yourself against claims like these some 20, 30
or 40 years later. You can't.
Two points...1) the fact this happened years ago doesn't excuse
a crime. Don't judge these men, that is the reason there is due process.2) it seems irresponsible for these men to go after the BSA and LDS
church and not the perpetrators. The only case that seems valid is where the man
claims the church leadership called a previously known pedophile to be scout
master. But even then, the "church leader" was a volunteer and
wasn't professional clergy.
And the purpose of your lawsuit is what? Greed! It's too bad it happened
at all, but to file a lawsuit where the only goal is to get money is wrong. Move
I know of someone who fought legally to change things back in that era because
she discovered this abuse going on. There are probably hundreds of additional
victims who have not requested any sort of compensation for the abuse they
suffered back in that era. The LDS church takes every one of these
cases VERY seriously now. When they first surfaced there was a lot of resistance
to it, but things have changed in the past four decades. We talk openly about
these topics, hoping that victims will come forward and will expose these
heinous acts, so that the perpetrators and the victims can get the help they
need. I hope these people who are suing will be able to find some
sort of solace, because money is not going to fix everything, and if this is all
about punishing the LDS church, well, besides attacking the wrong target, it
will never bring healing.
wwookie: "...the man claims the church leadership called a previously known
pedophile to be scout master." Please go back and re-read the article...
I am disturbed by this lawsuit. I know the church has zero tolerance for this
type of behavior and is not accepted in any form.In saying that, I to believe
that this is a money grab as well. Many individuals in our country and around
the world know that the church is well funded. What they don't know is that
the funds are scared. The Lord's church has no paid clergy and most members
give a great deal of their time in serving in a pleasing manner or at least they
strive to. And the BSA has always tried to keep a high standard when it comes to
their leadership. However, since these allegations have come forward
now, perhaps it will open the eyes of many regarding the homosexual debate.
Clearly, known homosexuals should NEVER be allowed to serve a scout leaders.
After all these years, I think it's obvious that this is a
money grab. These accusers and their lawyers are going after the deep pockets.
If these men were victimized, I'm sorry for them, but a lawsuit like this
is pointless and will do nothing to help anyone after all these years. I hope
the case is summarily dismissed.
These are tough cases. On the one hand you feel for any victim of abuse. On
the other, there has been a guilty until proven innocent approach to these
cases. Every scout leader knows that they are one false accusation away from
having their reputation destroyed. Proving the negative is always difficult,
but 28 years later is next to impossible. The law should really put a statute
of limitations at 3 years after the alleged victims turn 18. Additionally,
there should be limits on the liability of organizations that have programs in
place to prevent sich things. Every 2 years all scout leaders have to take
courses on avoiding such things. It is a volunteer organization that helps
millions of boys. It is too bad that these attorneys see it as the deep pocket.
I hope they take the case all the way to trial
Can you say "money grab?"
Re: "Why didn't they bring this up until now? I hope the courts see it
as the money grab it is."This press release has but one motive
-- the trial attorneys are seeking other victims to add to the plaintiff list,
making it more likely BSA and the Church will settle, rather than defend this
highly questionable action.Follow the money.
If it happened, it's very sad and the abusers need to be prosecuted. Why wait til now? The accusers are in their 40's. I believe the
jury will see it as many of us are seeing it.
@Chris --"I can't figure why the BSA won't allow gay
leaders."I can't either, Chris!Most likely, the
abusers in these cases were married, "normal"-appearing members of their
communities.To compare, here's a few cases of abuse within the
BSA from the last several years ("year" is of the article -- not the
year of the crime):2012 (conviction 1999), Philadelphia -- married,
prominent LDS member2011, Pueblo -- divorced (not a leader)2009,
Orem -- married scout leader2005, New York -- married scout leader,
prominent Baptist church member2002, Denver/New York -- married scout
leaderStatistics from the Child Advocacy Center show that 75% of all
male child molesters are "married or have consenting sexual relationships
(with women)" and that "only about 4 percent of same-sex abuse involves
homosexual perpetrators".A classic study in the Archives of
Sexual Behavior demonstrated that "sexual orientation was not related to the
sex of the victim targeted" and that "men who molested boys often had
adult relationships with women".In reality, there is more risk
from scouts and scout leaders who appear to be "normal heterosexuals"
than from people who are open and honest about their homosexuality.
For hese plaintiffs to go after the Church is a far stretch at best. In cases of
abuse and sexual assault, usually the victims go after the individuals who did
it, not an organization that can't be proved responsible. Despite the close
relationship that's found between the Church and the BSA, the two are not
synonymous or interchangeable. The plaintiffs are going to be very hard pressed
to find evidence that the Church instigated the alleged abuse, as well as
physical proof that the abuse happened. It was so long ago - if the information
in the article is correct - that I highly doubt any physical proof will be
found. "He said, she said" type cases tend to get thrown out very
easily, because circumstantial evidence is so flimsy in the eye of the law
At age 16 I was abused by my senior home teaching companion. I only allowed it
to happen one time and immediately reported him to my bishop. He fled and I
never even thought of sueing the church for his individual actions. His sins
never bothered me. That wsa 51 years ago. 27 to 41 years later is a little
late for these men to be sueing for money when they should have resolved it many
Why wasn't the Elk's Club named as a defendant? No Money."they happened between 28 and 41 years ago and the plaintiffs aren't
named."Hmmmmm.... 4 or 5 of my Scoutmasters exposed
themselves to me 35 years ago. I guess it's time for my pay day!!! Or
maybe they were just peeing on a tree.....I WAS sexually abused as a
child, though not by a Scout or Church leader, so I know whereof I speak when I
say this case is not about healing, it is about money. Otherwise they would
have named names and gone after the individuals.
This is just another pathetic example of how selective outrage and hypocrisy of
the free press and evil agendas are being selectively pushed in our faces.If all the bleeding hearts, including the attorneys and accusers and
media, were sincerely against pedophilia, child sexual molestation and slavery,
they might gain credibility by going after the real plague rather than exposing
their hateful, evil, anti-god, "freedom of religion" bogus agenda in the
front pages.Go ahead, make my day by exposing the tens of thousands
of real cases of pedophilia in the sexual progressive’s world and horrific
cases of child sexual torture and violence and human trafficking, then perhaps
maybe what was to me bogus propaganda will actually turn into a proactive remedy
to the evil sexual plagues of today.
First, abuse of any kind is wrong, as one of Americas most notorious criminals
said I rob banks becasue that is where the money is, well Boy Scouts is where
the boys are. Most people do not realize that a boy is 4 times safer from child
abuse in a Scouting activity than in his own home. However it seems no amount
of counseling or other help is adequate until the sleezy lawyers jump in with
the "green salve" then miraculously everything seems to be ok. Sad
bordering on disgusting.
An organization or business can only know so much about the employee or
volunteer, so until something actually happens, they don't know there is a
problem. If they get rid of the individual after things are exposed then the
victim needs to go after the individual who assaulted them, not the
organization. I don't know why all of a sudden they all felt like they
needed to bring this to trial at one time. Have these individuals been friends
for all these years and talked about this or did the lawyers advertise a
lawsuit? More info is needed.I do believe they were abused but it's strange
that they all came forward together. I hope they can move on and get the help
(mentally that they need)
OK, So I went to a Catholic school back in the '50's. If I needed or
just wanted money, could I come up with a lie now and say I was molested? Good
grief! I'll bet a lot more money grabbers and scumbag lawyers are drooling
over this one. Yes, these pedifiles need to be stopped, but not 40
years later. What is the point?
Please don't invalidate the awful, life changing experiences these men went
through; let the courts pass judgement.
We need to take precautions and protections seriously. We need to do all we can
to prevent abuse of any kind. When abuse does occur it should be
reported to the police as quickly as possible.
Amazondoc said, "only about 4 percent of same-sex abuse involves homosexual
perpetrators". and then said, "In reality, there is more
risk from scouts and scout leaders who appear to be "normal
heterosexuals" than from people who are open and honest about their
homosexuality."Way to spin statistics, Doc, but since the
general populace is 2% gay, their share of same-sex abuse is twice what it
should be per capita.While it is true that there are more total
numbers of sicko heterosexual men who commit same-sex child abuse, don't
try to paint it as boys being safer with homosexual leaders. It is plainly
untrue.By your statistics, if volunteering in equal numbers, more
boys would be molested by gay scout leaders than by straight ones.
I have the utmost sympathy for the victims of this abuse. No matter how late,
they are entitled to justice. The Oregon firm representing them specializes in
this type of law suit. They recently got a $19 million judgement against the
BSA. One tactic they use is to sue for a few individuals to obtain the
institutions records and finances. Then they can chase down additional clients.
This suit is the first slash in a death by a thousand cuts.
Obviously we don't know the facts, yet. For example:Were there resources available for background checks of scout leaders? Did the perpetrators have a prior history? Did the Church avail
themselves of background checks?When/if were local Church leaders
made aware of the abuse? If they were made aware what did they do?Sexual abuse of children is life-altering and can be devastating to the
victims. My sister and I were sexually molested--groped by sales
person in a UT store in the presence of my mother (apparently she was unaware it
was happening) when we were young (probably ages 6-8?) At the time it happened
I didn't know it was wrong--all i knew was that I didn't like it and
never wanted to go back to that store. As long as I lived in UT if we ever drove
by that store I got a sick and panicked feeling. It was only when I was in my
mid-late twenties, living in another state, that I recognized what had happened
as abuse--and also found out the same thing had happened to my sister.
Think about how devastating it is when a young person is molested by church or
community leaders. Imagine sitting in church--looking at your molester every
week while they are accepted and afforded respect by other leaders and adults.
What does that do to one's soul? What does that do to one's sense of
trust? What does that do to one's relationship and belief in God? There is no doubt in my mind that too often--at least in the past--these
incidents were treated by bishops or other leaders as personal
"repentance" issues and not reported to law enforcement authorities.
Again, we don't know the facts.
In the time frame that these individuals are reporting that they were abused,
the BSA did not have a systematic program of background checks for adult
leaders. That was implemented 13 or 14 years ago. The LDS Church really
didn't have any kind of digital membership system until at the earliest the
late 1980's. In that environment, it was vastly more difficult to track
people who should never be allowed near youth. Also, society didn't look at
the problem of abuse in the same way that we do not. That being said, the actual
abusers in these cases should be brought to trial if at all possible. But, as
long as the BSA and the Church can show that local officers acted according to
the established policies and laws of the day, the suits against them should be
Money is at the root of these allegations. The Church does not sponser all BSA
Cats: Just because a person is gay, it doesn't mean that they are child
The plaintiffs CAN'T go after the perpetrators because the statute of
limitations passed decades ago. That's why they're going for the deep
pockets of the BSA and LDS church. I agree that the Elk's Club should also
be named in the lawsuit since they were the sponsor of one of the four scout
troops. If this lawsuit were being brought to show that there is a
weakness in the program that needs to be fixed, I would understand it, but in
the decades since this happened, the scout organizations have implemented a lot
of preventative measures to keep these things from happening. This says to me
they're not trying to prove a point but to get money. No, it should have
have happened; yes, it's a tragedy; no, they probably haven't gotten
over it and maybe never will. But the only ones who will benefit in this
situation are the lawyers, who will pocket 1/3 of whatever money is won. Greed
From the DN article:"The Boy Scouts began keeping files on
people who were deemed ineligible to volunteer for the organization —
because they molested children, stole money from the organization or committed
other transgressions — as early as 1920, according to the lawsuit.
Thousands of those files have since been publicly released as former Scouts sued
the organization over sexual abuse.The men contend that the
existence of those files shows the Boy Scouts of America knew Scouts faced a
real risk of abuse. They say the BSA's failure to warn prospective and
current Scouts, their parents and others shows a pattern of fraud and
misrepresentation. Likewise, the men say the LDS Church knew that some of its
Scoutmasters and troop leaders had molested boys in the past and that it
nevertheless continued to put boys in harms' way."
@snowman,"Cats: Just because a person is gay, it doesn't
mean that they are child molestors"No one said it does.How many times do we have to go over this?Similarly, being a
heterosexual male does not make someone a child molestor.And yet men
shouldn't be taking the neighbor girls camping with them.
@Chris --"men shouldn't be taking the neighbor girls
camping with them."NO adults should take ANY children camping
alone -- regardless of gender or orientation.@J-TX --"since the general populace is 2% gay, their share of same-sex abuse is
twice what it should be per capita."Actually, the percentage of
gay people in the US population is roughly 3-5% -- depending on locale and what
technique you use to make the estimation. In some areas, in fact, the percentage
rises over 10%. (check the wikipedia page "LGBT demographics of the United
States" for more details)."don't try to paint it as
boys being safer with homosexual leaders. It is plainly untrue."Fortunately, I never did any such thing.What I actually said was
that abusers are more likely to APPEAR to be "normal heterosexuals" --
regardless of what their actual orientation may be. One constant
amongst abusers is that they hide behind a camouflage of normalcy. Therefore, the men who are honest and open about being gay aren't the
ones the BSA needs to worry about. The abusers are going to people people who
LOOK like "normal, heterosexual" members of the community.
If it is determined that it happened I hope they are awarded a lot of money.
Sadly....there is good and bad everywhere...including the Mormon church. Do you
really think that these are isolated incidents? How many people do you estimate
have had similar incidents happen to them and they are not coming forward like
this? The only thing that raises my eyebrows about this is that these men are
coming forward so late and asking for monetary damages. It's just as bad
to have a bishop making young girls sit on his lap in his office and have them
kiss him on the cheek, even though nothing specific happened. There should be a
policy that no minor child go into a church office by themselves....ever....but
we are also conditioned to trust church leaders to be appropriate. Sadly humans
are well, human, and they don't always make the best decisions, even church
If true, this was a horrible act committed by men, not organizations no matter
who they are. Knowingly putting a child in harms way is another issue. In my
mind, this is nothing but a money grab ploy as others have suggested. These
individuals should be going after the perps who committed the crime if still
alive and put them in jail. Why wait until now and why hide your names? Though I
am not a big supporter of the BSA, I am against law suits on issues that are so
old, it is impossible to prove unless the perps (if alive) confess to the crimes
then, it is still the perps fault, not the organization. Just another example of
how society today will sue for whatever reason a lawyer can give them in order
to obtain a paycheck.
If scouting is such a great program for boys, why not having a girl scouts
program as well? With the Changes in BSA I can see this coming more and more,
one very good reason why LDS churh should not be affiliated to BSA. Why do not
create a church scouting program of our own? That way we set the rules and do
not have to answer to any other organization. We are missing this one.
This is just one of MANY reasons why I personally attended each and every camp
trip my son went on while a scout. I don't trust anyone with my 12 year old
except myself and neither should any other parent. If I am a single mom then I
make certain I am comfortable with all the leaders taking care of my son. This
sort of thing should never happen but people are people and evil doesn't
confine itself to any religious group.
The length of time since the reported violation took place makes one wonder, if
this was a traumatic or illegal event, why wait so long if the plaintiffs have
been suffering? The option for legal redress has been well known for decades.
Something is missing from this story.
Questions...After 41 years, how is this lawsuit going to fix
anything?How can these claims be verified?If the claims
can't be verified, can those accused receive monetary damages from the
accusers?I appreciate those who made comments letting the rest of us
know how the money angle works for the law firms as well as the accusers.I invite anyone to answer my three questions.Thanks.
@J-TXI would also add that if you look at amazondoc's own
statistics quoted from the child advocacy center, 25% of all abuse occurs by
people not engaged in a heterosexual lifestyle. Not to mention that some of
those in a heterosexual relationship could be bisexual.Other studies
such as that quoted in "Archives of Sexual Behavior" by W.D. Erickson of
229 convicted child molestors stated that 86% of the respondants considered
themselves as either homosexual or bisexual.Somehow that 4% number
just didn't pass the common sense test with me.
October 2012 the BSA released 20,000 pages of documents relating to alleged
instances of sexual abuse by more than 1,200 perpetrators within the
organization.The documents were ordered to be produced by an Oregon
judge in separate litigation, tried in 2010, resulting in an $18.5 million
punitive damages award against the BSA. Most children are abused by
someone they know and trust.An estimated 60% of perpetrators of sexual
abuse are known to the child but are not family members, e.g., family friends,
babysitters, childcare providers, neighbors.About 30% of perpetrators are
family members, e.g., fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins.Just 10% of
perpetrators are strangers to the child.In most cases, the perpetrator is
male regardless of whether the victim is a boy or girl.Some CDC research
has estimated that approximately 1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls are sexually
abused before the age of 18.However, accurate statistics on the prevalence
of sexual abuse of children and adolescents are difficult to collect because it
is vastly underreported and there are differing definitions of what constitutes
sexual abuse.Boys (and later, men) tend not to report their victimization,
which may affect statistics.
There are good reasons that we have a statute of limitations on both civil and
criminal actions. If you were accused of doing something thirty or forty years
ago, how could you possibly defend yourself? And for the accusers, how do they
expect to prove their case? No witnesses, no physical evidence, just someone
saying something happened. Try to account for your whereabouts on, let's
say, the month of August, 1981. Or account for every moment of every day during
all the scout activities in the summer of 1978. No one can do it, and
it's unreasonable to expect them to do so.
@amazondoc"Statistics from the Child Advocacy Center show that
75% of all male child molesters are "married or have consenting sexual
relationships (with women)" and that "only about 4 percent of same-sex
abuse involves homosexual perpetrators"."Another way to look
at these statistics is that 25% of all male child molesters are not involved in
consenting sesual relationships with women. An unknown percentage of the 75%
could also be bisexual.Another study in this area was quoted in
"Archives of Sexual Behavior". The study was performed by W.D. Erickson
in "Behaviors Patterns of Child Molestors". In his study of 229
convicted child molestors, 86% considered themselves as homosexuals or
Thirty, forty, even only twenty years ago, did we not all think of our leaders
as pretty much the reigning authority figures, especially in Church, and
especially as young as ten, twelve, fourteen, in our youth programs? And did our
parents not encourage this in us? Most of these adults never gave us reason for
doubt. And truth be told, they were bigger, stronger, smarter, even funny
sometimes. They were often the ones we looked up to. So why would we not be
asking ourselves, as these boys--or any victims might--who was going to believe
us? Who would believe that we didn't run away, if it were true? How do we
know what scenarios played over and over in the heads of these men when they
were so young then? What would YOU, dear reader, be thinking? I can't begin
to imagine, were I in one of their places. And considering that it was same
gender, and given the way of thinking at the time, and that it was Idaho, and
most were LDS, do you really think the boys would have been believed?
They really shouldn't be allowed to sue this long after the fact
Very sad and should be dealt with, if possible, if proven to be true. I think it
should be mentioned though that in the cases where the alleged abuse took place
3 or 4 decades ago, the scout leaders, BSA officials, church leaders, etc, in
many cases may be dead by now and unable to defend themselves.
Funny. If it were the catholic church would your opinion be the same? They could be alerting prosecution of the men involved.
To Mainly Me, I truly understand the deep wounds of abuse but
cannot understand in anyway shape or form how money unearned will make the hurt
go away. Especially after so many years. Raise awareness but suing for money is
Money chasers... This many years later??? If you want money let's hear your
We have no idea of the truth of these accusations, but the incidents are
appalling to us all.One can only hope that, if true, each are dealt
with fairly. It sounds like each took place before Scouting's two-deep
leadership rule was widely followed.If the accusations are true,
these and others like them must be seen against the larger question of who can
be trusted to be an adult Scout leader. The BSA recently made the decision to
affirm that youth with a same-gender attraction can be Scouts so long as they do
not act on that attraction. But they also decided to continue the ban on
homosexual Scout leaders.Gay rights advocates see that last decision
as being only temporary.Gay rights advocates strenuously argue that
alleged perpetrators such as these are examples of pedophilia but not examples
of homosexuality.In the Nineteenth Century, men at 18 or 21 often
married women of 16. We now consider that to not be good social policy.It is tough to see the abuse of male teenagers by older men as being
anything other than homosexual (or bi-sexual) recruitment - taken past the
current boundaries of propriety.
@1978 --"25% of all abuse occurs by people not engaged in a
heterosexual lifestyle."25% are single. **Single**.
"Single" does not mean "homosexual"."W.D.
Erickson in "Behaviors Patterns of Child Molestors". In his study of 229
convicted child molestors, 86% considered themselves as homosexuals or
bisexuals."Phhhhht. Erickson used self-reports by the
perpetrators as his only measure, which most other sex-offender researchers know
better than to do, because -- guess what -- pedophiles would rather LIE than
admit that they're pedophiles. More credible sources --
including the American Psychological Association, the National Association of
Social Workers, the American Academy of Child Psychiatrists and the Child
Welfare League of America -- all acknowledge that gay men are NOT more likely to
molest children than heterosexual men.AN Groth, former director of
the Sex Offender Program at the Connecticut Department of Corrections, has said:
"my studies have indicated that homosexual males pose LESS risk of sexual
harm to children (both male and female)--from both an absolute and a percentage
incidence rate--than heterosexual males."Freund (1989), Jenny
(1994), other studies, and -- of course -- the experts on the subject all
contradict Erickson's finding.Nice try, though!
I was molested at the age of 12 but somehow I have let it go and moved on. 25
years later to join the LDS church I had forgiven this man and others who had
brought me pain and suffering. I never molested a child but had done things to
others that I sought forgiveness for.I had hoped recently that the LDS
church would withdraw from he BSA but the Prophet has spoken and I am moving on.
Reading the article, I see no evidence for a claim that the Church was aware of
these specific cases. The suit seems to boil down to "LDS Church leaders
were aware that molestation had occurred in the boy scouts at some point,
somewhere, therefore their failure to stop it ever occurring again makes them
financially liable."This is very different from the alleged set
of events in some Catholic cases. Where it was alleged that someone abused, it
was reported, and then they were moved. This is not alleged here.It
is unclear from the article that any of the events involved here were ever
reported to leaders. They may have been. I don't know. However
I am not very convinced. The fact that the boy scouts tracked some abuse by some
people does not show they should have known that the specific people involved
here were potential abusers. It seems at least at first glance this is a suit
alleging people should be held responsible for not making a system with no
problems.That said, I have to also say that I am unpersuaded by some
arguments brought against Catholic leader.
I'm sorry for the victims, the BSA and the LDS Church. What a mess! But to
some extent, it sounds like a deep pockets grab to me. Why is is that these 4
"victims" are so anxious to blame the LDS church and the BSA, but no
mention of the actual names of the perpetrators is given in the article? Were
the perpetrators accused, arrested, or otherwise confronted? I don't see
any mention of that in the article. Is an organization guilty if they do not
know about an abusive act? Would any of these victims like to be held to that
same standard with their coworkers or children or spouse? At the point that the
"victims" came forward and first reported the incidents, that is the
point at which BSA and LDS leaders became responsible to stop further incidents.
Before that it was between the perpetrators and the "victims". If BSA or
LDS church allowed further interaction after they were informed, then they
deserve to take responsibility. But first, the perpetrators need to be brought
I agree. This is about money and not about justice.
I agree with the other people who opined if this is to proceed then names of the
preportartiors need to brought out as well as evidence and not just what someone
says, like one said its sounds more like a money scam than anything else. I say
what they say on the car commercials, show me the facts.