Comments about ‘Letters: Hatch and NSA’

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Published: Friday, June 14 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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one old man
Ogden, UT

Y'know who Lee and Hatch REALLY need to pursue for data mining?

Walmart, Smith's Foods, our banks, your local auto dealership, your insurance company, and the secret intelligence gathering arms of countless other corporate members of the American "free enterprise" system. And while they're at it, how about going after all those websites that will allow me -- for a small fee, of course -- to learn virtually anything I want to know about you and your family members?

But if they tried that, they'd be damaging the profit margins of the giants who pay our Congresscritters' bills. Nah. Can't have that . . . .

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Mike Lee was unaware of it!?

As if this is some sort of acceptable excuse???

Outrageous!!!

What exactly did Lee think NSA was doing? What did he think this monstrosity being built here in Utah was going to be used for?

It's time for Mike Lee to stop acting like a child and screaming about certain issues (like the UN and disability bills) and become informed with what REALLY matters. He needs to know what is REALLY happening in his own backyard.

Being "unaware" of what the NSA is doing is just plain unacceptable.

isrred
South Jordan, UT

Where was the letter writer when Senator Hatch voted, openly and publicly, for these things to happen over and over again? The original Patriot Act, its reauthorization a few years later, the FISA amendments, etc etc.

Senator Hatch was re-elected TWICE since he's made some of the votes allowing these things, and I'm willing to bet that the letter writer helped to make that happen with their votes.

Many of us tried telling conservatives that this was terrible policy and a terrible assault on civil liberties, but we were shouted down as whimps who would coddle and embolden terrorists. It was your elected Republicans that passed these laws--you helped make this happen.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

It's true that Mike Lee believes that the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land and that Orrin Hatch believes that he and other members of Congress have the authority to write any law that they want as long as they think that their law is good for the people.

We're seeing the results of that kind of thinking. Congress has authorized spending for personal welfare, which is not authorized by the Constitution. If personal welfare needs to be addressed, that is a duty of the State and of the people, not of the Federal Government. Mike Lee understands that concept. Most members of Congress do not.

The NSA is just one of many problems facing the citizens of America. Granted, it boils our blood to know that Uncle Sam is listening in on our conversations and reading our email. Thankfully, those abuses prove to us why we must never again elected someone like Obama who tells us that he is doing it for our own good and why we must never let someone like Orrin Hatch write the laws of the land.

Mister J
Salt Lake City, UT

re: isrred

Back in the day, I wrote Orrin about the Patriot Act, TSA, & DHS. I said they were bad ideas. My reply was full of post 9/11 rhetoric. In short, the antithesis of Ben Franklin's quote about liberty & security.

If it were exclusively businesses that were "data mining", I would not be crazy about it but could understand. Where would America be w/o marketing and sales?

I always thought that if facebook, google, or apple got cozy w/ Uncle Sam then it would be light out, game over.

Silly me; I never considered the telecom angle. Bottom line; I will not get a "smartphone"... I already have something to keep track of my life... its called a brain.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

It's really not Uncle Sam you need to worry about. It's who is actually running these programs contracted out and that have used these systems to attack those that bring them to light. Private contractors, many with foreign investors. Privatizing our security, now that makes me feel secure.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

We tried to replace Hatch a year ago, but he survived the primary. Don't blame conservatives if Hatch chooses to ignore the constitution.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

It's true that ... and that Orrin Hatch believes that he and other members of Congress have the authority to write any law that they want as long as they think that their law is good for the people.
9:03 a.m. June 14, 2013


@lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

We tried to replace Hatch a year ago, but he survived the primary. Don't blame conservatives if Hatch chooses to ignore the constitution.
9:04 a.m. June 14, 2013

==========

Good grief...

You were the guys who voted for him, re-re-(7x)-elected him.
You in essence support him.

So Yes, we DO blame you for him and nearly all the other Republicans [and the handful of Democrats - see, that's called someone being honest] who have voted for this over the last 12 years.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Mike and lost, did you or didnt you vote for Hatch on this last election?

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Good grief! There must have been a lot of people who were so afraid of making a choice when they voted that they wanted to know how others vote.

Do they know that in America we have secret ballots? Do they know that in America NO ONE, not even the Supreme Court has the right to ask us how we voted? Do they understand WHY we have privacy in America, or, are part of the liberal left who think that the government, and those who are part of the liberal left, have the right to look over our shoulder when we write emails and listen in when we use the telephone. Don't they know that being free means that asking a question about how we voted means that they don't have a clue about liberty and freedom?

But, just to make them feel better, at the caucus meeting some of us voiced strong opinions about NOT electing delegates who had already made up their minds to vote for Hatch at the nominating convention.

Did they actively campaign against Hatch, or, do they just think its their business to tell Republican how to vote?

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

In the midst of this ridiculous catfight, let me point out that the NSA has been functioning under orders from the secret FISA court, which was created by a joint decision of the Republicans and Democrats in Congress a decade ago. What they are doing is perfectly "legal." If we don't like it, let's inform our Congresspeople to walk back the Patriot Act and eliminate the FISA court. The FISA Court always struck me, a Democrat,as an innovation dangerous to our civil liberties.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Good Grief!

Now it's the "left's fault" for not doing more to keep Hatch from being elected? Huh? As if the left hasn't already been marginalized in Utah?

Yes Mike Richards, you're absolutely right. It's CLEARLY the left's job to find the GOP a conservative candidate so mindless drones don't continue to merely pull the "R" lever without ever using their god given brains. Please.

You know the GOP is tearing itself apart when you have posters on here attacking the left for the mistake of electing Hatch.

The truth is just so obvious, Utah voters have become lazy and content. Instead of actually researching candidates and becoming informed on the issues, they merely elect the "R"/most familiar name. Instead of electing a conservative, the people of Utah elected a Republican Politician.

This isn't the left's fault. But a problem with the voters who are overwhelming affiliated with the GOP.

Again, I ask, Mike and Lost, did you or didn't you vote for Hatch in this previous election?

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

What the NSA/FISA/Obama Administration does is only legal if you throw out the Constitution. They have ignored our rights. Why is what they're doing legal? Is it legal because they say it's legal? Is it legal because they have a court that says it's legal? Is it legal because the Constitution says it's legal?

No law in America can conflict with the Constitution and still be legal. Either the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land or it is not. If it is not, then all is lost because the Constitution protects the people from an "out of control" government. The Constitution puts limits on what the government can do and what it is restricted from doing.

We, the people, have explicitly told the government that they cannot search us in any way unless they prove to a judge that what we're doing has probable cause for a warrant. If that judge agrees, then he issues a warrant to search a specific area.

What the Obama Administration is doing under the guise of the "Patriot Act" is illegal.

Everyone seems to know that - except the Federal Government.

GK Willington
Salt Lake City, UT

to Mike Richards per his 11:32 a.m post

"...and those who are part of the liberal left, have the right to look over our shoulder when we write emails and listen in when we use the telephone. Don't they know that being free means that asking a question about how we voted means that they don't have a clue about liberty and freedom?"

Its strictly the left responsible for Big Brother? Wow!? What about Stuff like Prop 8 and the whining about trying to overturn Roe v Wade i.e. matters involving personal choice.

"Did they actively campaign against Hatch, or, do they just think its their business to tell Republican how to vote?"

Some of us have lives and a clue. We think both major parties are joke and vote 3rd party no matter how insignificant it may be in the long run.

Politically, my conscience is clean knowing there independents/Libertarians sans Ivy League degrees who aren't lackeys of Wall St or other special interests that I can vote for.

Cincinnatus
Kearns, UT

Thanks for the biggest laugh I've had so far today Mike Richards!

Blaming the left for Big Brother AND Orrin Hatch? (Let me pause while I stop laughing again...)

Hatch is a Republican and therefore is voted for in caucuses by Republicans (closed caucuses, if I remember right), and by Republicans in the general election. Case closed.

While I certainly think that President Obama's administration shoulders some blame in secretively collecting data, you do realize that the Patriot Act, the ramp up in FISA and the NSA, the creation of the TSA and DHS, and warrantless wiretapping all came to us courtesy of President Bush (a Republican, if you'll remember) and by overwhelming votes by Republican members of Congress.

You claim that we must "never again elect someone like Obama," but you might want to be honest and add President Bush, and most members of Congress as well.

Talk about spinning things- you are the master, Mike.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Is it possible that Mike is really a plant from some comedy club or maybe Saturday Night Live?

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

Can you imagine how some of the posters are "laughing" at Conservatives because a Republican is a liberal? What irony! They're attacking a liberal Senator who is supporting Obama's administration and the spying that they endorse. Talk about throwing under the bus those who do exactly what you want them to do.

Hatch is no conservative. He might call himself a Republican, but he espouses the values of Obama and Obama's followers.

Mike Lee is our only Senator who believes in the Constitution. Hatch has been in Washington so long that he's become an active liberal.

Those on the left should be applauding him instead of attacking him. They got exactly what they wanted - a liberal who supports Obama (and then tells us how he will do away with ObamaCare). Hatch and Obama must have taken the lessons from the same "truth" coach.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@lost in DC
"We tried to replace Hatch a year ago, but he survived the primary. Don't blame conservatives if Hatch chooses to ignore the constitution."

We tried too but too many Republicans who dislike Hatch were allergic to Ds and voted for him anyway.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Maverick,
You ask if Lee was unaware.

You buy that excuse when BO, Holder, and Hillary sell it. Why not with Lee?

LDS? lib, maverick, atl134
In the general election, you bet I voted against giving harry reid and the dems a better shot at further destroying our country. Had there been a plausible alternative, they would have my vote. When dems remove their toxicity (or repub toxicity reaches the same level) I’ll find something else. Of course, if they removed their toxicity, I wonder if they would still garner your undying support?

Irony Guy,
Verizon reports data requests from NSA have increased 15% per year in the last 5 years. Those are BO, not bush years. Bush could drop a bread crumb in a stream and you liberals would use that as an excuse for BO dumping 40,000 tons of toxic waste in the same stream (bush dropped stuff in it first!!!!!, you’d all scream). BO turbo-charged what was going on and turned the NSA into the Stasi.

Cincinnatus
Kearns, UT

@one old man

Actually, I'm leaning more towards Mike Richards actually being John Swallow, Mike Lee, or Jason Chaffetz. Either way it's still great stuff for late night TV. :)

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