Published: Tuesday, June 11 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT
I remember the hysteria when there was a "John Bircher" behind every
tree in the 1960s, especially in Orange County. The state tax people in
California, under direction of Governor Brown and Attorney General Stanley Mosk,
studied the dickens out of one anti-communist organization there. That was 50
years ago Gary. Remember payola, vicuna coats, golfing and goofing, Vietnam,
Watergate, presidential and vice presidential resignations, etc, etc. The
Republic and its people still stand 50 years later. Matching phone numbers and
some IRS harassment is not 1984. Keep the faith baby.
Where was the outrage when the Patriot Act was passed?
re: The Real MaverickAgreed. Not to mention the spawns of the
Patriot Act.... TSA & DHS.
It's a case of too little too late, I'm afraid.
Maverick: It's been proven, the government is only evil when a democrat is
in the White House. When a republican occupies 1600 Penn, then the government is
wonderful and inspired and can do anything it wants.
Re: "It's been proven, the government is only evil when a democrat is
in the White House."Glad to see you're finally getting it!
It must be tough for the Republican haters to live in a state like Utah where
unemployment is low, crime is low, and the economy is good. Perhaps you would
prefer California or New York where the reverse is true.
to Ernest T. BassLike The Patriot Act or invade Iraq?
I, too, am a huge proponent of privacy. I avoid social media entirely, seldom
answer the phone, etc. And I don't appreciate the government collecting my
metadata. However, as maverick pointed out, people around here didn't
squawk when the patriot act was passed. And what will they shout when the next
attack occurs? Something like 'why didn't the government prevent
this', I expect. I think the business of keeping us safe is not as pretty
or cut and dried as we'd like.
GK Willinton..."Agreed. Not to mention the spawns of the Patriot
Act.... TSA & DHS"Gk.. Neither TSA or DHS was the spawn of
the Patriot Act.. they were created because of a so called "Bi-partisan"
commission findings when they discovered that several us intelligence agencies
were not sharing information. Which of course the "Liberals" jump on
because it bashed Pres. Bush.Maverick... If you had taken to the
time to actually study the Patriot Act and what the intent of both the Democrats
and the Republican members of congress wanted it to do, then you would have
found out that they had put in some provisions to prevent the abuse of the
current NSA administration.. But when you are not held accountable for
violating laws, procedures or whatever like the Obama administration... this is
The sky is falling.
When the Patriot Act was quickly pushed through Congress right after 9/11, we
were all pretty out of our minds afraid of what was coming next. But with that
said, it was intended to track calls made outside our country. What the NSA is
doing now is collecting data on all of us that could be used at anytime to
blackmail, prosecute, or intimidate an individual. Look at what happened to
General Petraeus. He was a victim of this system. I am not passing judgment on
whether he should have been exposed or not, just that the info was readily
available to the administration when they wanted Petraeus out of the CIA. There
are so many laws and regulations in this country now, that we can hardly breathe
without breaking one of them. If, our views are deemed a threat to a current
President, whoever, it may be, average Americans could be the target of
retribution. I need only point to the IRS targeting Tea Party groups. The NSA
has unconstitutionally gathered our digital data, and it needs to stop. Laws
that oppose the 4th amendment need to be challenged in court.
It's up to the citizens to rein in the government. I'm fairly certain
that these posts on the Deseret News are not forwarded to Congress; so, if you
want to do anything more that "sputter", write your Representative and
let him know how you feel. Of our two Senators, Mike Lee already
"gets it". Orrin Hatch was promoting the new "King" sized
building being built in Bluffdale where the information being gathered will be
stored and "mined". He's a lost cause. Everytime I write to him,
I get a very polite response that is full of platitudes and no substance.
Rarely do his response letters even mention the problem that I asked him to
solve.The Constitution protects the People, but as with any
contract, if the People don't enforce that contract, the other party (the
Government) will continue to abuse us.Get busy. Write those
letters. Be a responsible American, buy the stamps and send the letters.
I read the book 1984 and the only additional thing I would add to the
recommendation is to keep in mind that it is fiction. It is not fact. It is not
prophesy. It is not likely to happen. Information about people is
a commercial commodity. It is worth money. Consequently business is the
greatest information gatherer because it can be used to sell products. The LDS church has a data base about parentage. On the internet anybody
can find personal information about arrest records, sex violators, I am able to
see the phone statistics and information about my family group phones. I get junk mail with my mortgage balance on it. On the telephone I got
“Happy Birthday” from a businessman that I don’t do business
with. I had a disagreement for a free eye examination because I
objected to putting the day of the month on the application where I has already
given my age, and year of birth and the month of birth. They said
“it’s for the record”. Asking for personal
privacy in the open world is like walking naked down the street and expecting
people not to look.
I will not say one shouldn't be outraged but what did you think they were
going to do out there when they announced they were building a NSA complex and
our Congressional delegation were doing backflips in joy? Do you really think
this program was a brainchild of the current administration? I also think you
are bit amnestic to think that the source of problems in our free enterprise
system is anything other than monopolies paying their way with boatloads of
cash, ie the recent special Monsanto legislations. How does the minority leader
in the Senate increase his personal wealth by 24 million in 6 years? Who is
greasing palms? Where is your outrage about Congressional corruption, legal only
because they say it is? Is it because you voted for participants?
The old excuse of "you didn't protest when your guys did it, so you
have no right to complain" may score political points, but it doesn't
solve the problem of what we believe our government has the authority to do. I,
for one, was in Junior High when the Patriot Act was passed. I apologize that
the 14 year old version of myself didn't do more to protest such invasions
of our privacy, but I now stand with any Democrat, Republican, or Independent
who believes that all this data mining is in direct conflict with our 4th
amendment, and the protection against searches and seizures without warrants and
probable cause.I oppose these things not because they're a
slippery slope, or because it means big brother is at the door, but I oppose
them on their own merits. Collecting phone records of millions of Americans
without probable cause is a violation of both the spirit and letter of the
fourth amendment. Simple as that. I support our Constitution, especially the
Bill of Rights, and stand with anyone, regardless of party, who is willing to
stand for civil liberties.
Mike:I agree that we should communicate with our representatives. I
might suggest, however, that you can do so electronically. It gets there
faster, and saves the cost of a stamp. Plus it's easier for
the NSA to track and store. You know, just in case . . .
Why are the liberals not decrying this? Conservatives (not necessarily
Republicans) denounced the Patriot act.What the liberals here forget
is the little fact that it was their guy that not only extended some of the
worst portions of the Patriot Act, but has also added to the intrusions into our
privacy.Like "Onion Daze" pointed out. With enough
information you can trump up charges on anybody. In light of the recent
scandals, do you liberals honestly think that the information being collected
won't be used against innocent people?Ask yourselves this,
would you trust a government filled with people you hate with the information
that is being collected?
Mister J: Exactly. Iraq was such a great decision because it was Bush. Had it
been Obama, Utah (which polls showed supported the war more than any other
state, except when it came time to enlist, then we had the least amount of
support), would have hated the war in Iraq.
Maverick,Where was the outrage when BO extended the patriot act? Bet you
still voted to re-elect him.Ernest, are you saying BO was a
repub when he extended the patriot act?Curmudgeon,Of course,
even if you don’t use a return address on the snail mail, they can still
dust the letter for prints or DNA, and still find a way to track you down.
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