Comments about ‘In our opinion: Politicians should use Utah Compact framework in immigration reform debate’

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Published: Sunday, June 9 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Upson Downs
Sandy, UT

Entering the United States with good intentions to provide for their families should not be taken into consideration for illegals when considering immigration reform. Immigration laws are not broken they are just not being vigorously enforced. It is so very simple, these people came here illegally and should be sent home. Should they choose to return, they can return through legal channels.
They haven't just entered the country illegally. They have had to break additional laws and lied to gain employment and social aid and assistance.
Many a thief has had good intentions of providing for his or her family when they steal yet we don't go easy on them or treat them with compassion and dignity. We throw the book at them. And this is what we need to do with illegals. Forget talk of this foolish Utah Compact.

Utah_1
Salt Lake City, UT

The visa bill that Sen. Lee had and Sen. Hatch put in the the larger immigration bill. The I-Squared Act. Lets pull it back out and pass it separately.

We also should not force out of the country the high tech overseas student home after we educate them, to compete with the US. (They should be allowed to get a Green Card).

We need to fix legal immigration. The best plan I have seen is to have a decent no quota but sponsored system of immigration with the ability later to become a citizen, Rep. Dougall's bill 2011 HB 469 in 2011 has the first part of that. It is the best bill that was supported by both sides of the immigration debate.

We need a simple E-Verify law for companies 15 or larger to protect against ID theft.

If the "big" US immigration bill passes it will just further divide us. You get a bill that no one really likes. We need more consensus building and less compromise. If we focus on what we agree on, we can accomplish the most good.

Congress should run a bunch of small simple bills. Utah Compact, No. HB 469 yes

Fitness Freak
Salt Lake City, UT

If the current amnesty bill that is being discussed in D.C. is passed, it will be the biggest slap in the face to the poor and middle class in America since the Robber Baron era.

We already have 20 million of our own citizens unemployed. Illegal/unethical employers would like us to add another 15 million from foreign countries to that number.

We have now gotten to the point where our politicians are more concerned with the welfare of foreign citizens than they are their OWN citizens!

Shameful!

wigglwagon
Mariion, Va

This is just more propaganda from the cheap labor lobby. America does not need more workers of any kind. America needs more jobs for the workers we already have.

Any proposed reform that does not include mandatory jail terms for employers of illegal aliens will be a complete failure just as the '86 Amnesty was a failure.

The proposed 'path to citizenship' will guarantee that millions of law abiding legal families remain unemployed and in poverty.

Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The driving force behind immigration reform is not "Utah families", or American families. It is Corporate America's seemingly never ending quest for lower wages. Reform will give Corporate America what it wants, which means the rest of us will continue to see our standard of living erode.

Third try screen name
Mapleton, UT

America has over 27 million unemployed citizens between the ages of 18 and 64 who have a high school diploma or less. (That number has grown by five million during the Obama administration.)
Additionally, we have over 10 million teens (ages 15 to 17) who are unemployed. Note all the summer jobs programs that spring up in cities across the country.
It is believed that there are approximately eight million illegal aliens holding jobs here in the United States.
Time and again the notion that there are jobs Americans won't do has been proven to be false. Our own people do those dirty, menial jobs every day.
Would we not be a better nation if we coaxed those unemployed people back to work rather than undercut wages and benefits by importing needy people from the third world?
As it is now, we are paying TWICE. We provide social services to the long-term unemployed and pay illegal foreign workers to do the job.
It is insane.
Frankly, I don't care what the Chamber of Commerce wants. Their Utah Compact appears to be compassionate, but in reality is the essence of greed. That's this man's opinion.

Ajax
Mapleton, UT

I agree with the Deseret News editorial on immigration reform and question the motivation of our own Utah Senator Mike Lee.

Why should I believe that Senator Lee's proposal of a step by step approach to immigration reform is anything other than just another of his small-minded obstructionist ploys to derail the Obama government? All that his off-the-cuff "alternate" plan can possibly accomplish at this late juncture (other than serving up more red meat for his fellow reactionaries) is to further the impasse in Congress that most of us find so despicable.

DN Subscriber 2
SLC, UT

No!

No amnesty under whatever name.

We MUST secure the border first, before any special treatment for those who are here illegally. Otherwise it is just the 1986 Simpson-Mazzoli trick all over again. That granted amnesty for millions on the promise the border would be secured. But, the border was NOT secured, leaving us with the mess we have today.

Once the border is secured, then we can talk about a "path to citizenship" that ensures LEGAL immigrants enjoy the benefits of their having followed our laws, and those here illegally get in line behind them.

It may be bad politics to argue for this approach, but it is the right thing to preserve our country and the rule of law that attracts so many to it.

prelax
Murray, UT

"That is the framework Utah's families have said they would like to see."

Not so, the support for the compact is strictly business driven. How many people signed it? 4000?

Does anyone believe that Obama would enforce new laws?

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Instead of allowing foreigners in to do the work Americans wont do, lets invite the tea party and the minutemen to quit their jobs and do this work instead.

spicey
saltlakecity, UT

Can civil and thoughtful comments be factual or are they based on feelings?

cns
St George, Utah

The current Senate bill and the Obamacare act do have one thing in common. It is unlikely we will know of all the special and bad provisions hiding in the nooks and crannies of the Senate bill until it is passed and signed and implementation has begun.

prelax has it partly right. Why should we believe Obama will enforce new laws, or that future Congresses will continue to authorize and fund improvements in border security ??

Why should we believe Washington at all ??

Ajax
Mapleton, UT

Far more serious in my estimation than allegedly greedy businesspeople seeking cheaper labor are gratuitously meanspirited and vindictive citizens talking nonsense and spreading lies about immigration reform.

prelax
Murray, UT

spicey

Backhanded slap attacking people instead of the issue?

The compact seems to be a diversion to keep from discussing the issues.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Though a ruling in favor of gay marriage would not hurt any traditional marriage that I know of (to say otherwise is poor logic), the court should not rule in the favor of gay marriage.

Given the fact the constitution doesn't require that gay marriage be allowed, this is rightly a political decision, not a decision for the courts.

BYU Econ Student
Provo, UT

A number of above anti-immigrant commenters could stand to learn a bit of economics.

Microeconomics:

Lesson 1: Trade makes both parties better off. Otherwise they wouldn't voluntarily engage in trade. This includes trading labor.

Lesson 2: If the price of oranges go down, demanders will buy more oranges. If the price of labor goes down, demanders will buy more labor. If you could pay a plumber 1/4 of what the current market price is, I dare say more of us would hire plumbers to unclog our drains instead of doing it ourselves. The number of jobs is not a fixed quantity to be "stolen" by foreigners.

Lesson 3: When the government imposes protectionist or otherwise idiotic policies on a free market, it results in long lines and black markets. Perhaps many of you remember the long lines that resulted from gasoline price controls, and how quickly they disappeared once the government stopped interfering. Regrettably, we have yet to see the same happy ending in the labor market. The moment the immigration quotas cease to exist, there will no longer be long lines to get visas, and no such thing as illegal immigration.

BYU Econ Student
Provo, UT

Macroeconomics:

Lesson 1: Recessions aren't caused by immigration. The worldwide recession was caused by the US housing bubble, among other things, which was caused by stupid investing, not immigration or free trade.

Lesson 2: There are a number of tools available to combat recessions and decrease unemployment. One of the tools that would be popular to this audience is tax cuts. But none of the real tools involve being mean to immigrants. Greece, by the way, is plenty mean to immigrants, and that hasn't been the slightest help to their employment situation.

Lesson 3: Immigrants come when jobs are plentiful and leave when jobs are scarce. After the recession hit, we saw a drastic reduction in immigration. In fact, at one point, we even saw a tiny reduction in undocumented immigrants. And I suspect that if we had an open immigration system, we would have seen more substantial emigration of former immigrants, who would leave knowing that when jobs were plentiful again, they could easily come back.

Look, I know we were all hurt by this recession. But please, do your research, place the blame where it belongs, and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

1conservative
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

"byu student" only tells part of the economics surrounding illegal immigration.

He doesn't account for the very expensive social safety net we have for everyone in our country.
He doesn't explain why there are "protectionist" measures in place for pretty much every profession EXCEPT low-skilled workers.

If he would like to propose that we allow any/all doctors, nurses, pharmacists, etc. to immigrate unimpeded, we MIGHT be getting somewhere.

As the immigration laws stand (and even with the new proposals)the ONLY workers adversely impacted are our lower skilled neighbors. TRYING, TRYING to climb the socio-economic ladder, only to have their wages undercut by illegal employers.

We SHOULD try importing some of the "protected" job skills and see how loud THOSE folks bellow!

SLars
Provo, UT

It erases any distinction between legal and illegal immigration, that there is no legal nor moral difference between the two. It implies that both should be celebrated and embraced.

"compassion," "caring," "welcoming, "reasonableness," and "humanity" mean "looking the other way at illegal immigration."

It's real purpose is to undermine the rule of law.
It implies that illegal aliens do not commit crime. In fact, illegal entry and visa fraud are crimes. The typical illegal alien embarks upon a career of dishonesty and felony crime (fraud, perjury)

It implies that anyone who opposes illegal immigration is "uncivil" and "unreasonable."
It puts law-abiding Americans on trial, instead of holding illegal aliens accountable.
It's the close door work of the Salt Lake chamber of commerce.

Moabmom
Moab, UT

Seal the borders first!!! So far the government has shown themselves totally incapable of doing this. What in heavens name makes you think this behemoth of a government can handle "comprehensive immigration" if they can't even seal the borders?? Seal the boarders and enforce the immigration laws we already have!!! We don't need a boat load of new legislation, try enforcing the laws we already have on the books first and Seal The Boarders !!!. (also, it might be helpful if these "law makers" would buy themselves a dictionary and look up the term "illegal" and "alien" and figure out what it means. It's really not as difficult as these guys pretend it is.) I am so tired of the political grand-standing on this issue from both sides.

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