The only winners in a new amnesty are illegal/unethical businesses.The losers are: Republicans who will have created 12 million new democratic
voters. Democrats who will get to explain to their
constituents and unions why wages are constantly being depressed by an endless
supply of low-wage earners.
Seal the borders first!!! So far the government has shown themselves totally
incapable of doing this. What in heavens name makes you think this behemoth of
a government can handle "comprehensive immigration" if they can't
even seal the borders?? Seal the boarders and enforce the immigration laws we
already have!!! We don't need a boat load of new legislation, try
enforcing the laws we already have on the books first and Seal The Boarders !!!.
(also, it might be helpful if these "law makers" would buy themselves a
dictionary and look up the term "illegal" and "alien" and figure
out what it means. It's really not as difficult as these guys pretend it
is.) I am so tired of the political grand-standing on this issue from both
It erases any distinction between legal and illegal immigration, that there is
no legal nor moral difference between the two. It implies that both should be
celebrated and embraced."compassion," "caring,"
"welcoming, "reasonableness," and "humanity" mean
"looking the other way at illegal immigration."It's
real purpose is to undermine the rule of law.It implies that illegal
aliens do not commit crime. In fact, illegal entry and visa fraud are crimes.
The typical illegal alien embarks upon a career of dishonesty and felony crime
(fraud, perjury)It implies that anyone who opposes illegal
immigration is "uncivil" and "unreasonable."It puts
law-abiding Americans on trial, instead of holding illegal aliens
accountable.It's the close door work of the Salt Lake chamber of
"byu student" only tells part of the economics surrounding illegal
immigration.He doesn't account for the very expensive social
safety net we have for everyone in our country.He doesn't explain why
there are "protectionist" measures in place for pretty much every
profession EXCEPT low-skilled workers.If he would like to propose
that we allow any/all doctors, nurses, pharmacists, etc. to immigrate unimpeded,
we MIGHT be getting somewhere.As the immigration laws stand (and
even with the new proposals)the ONLY workers adversely impacted are our lower
skilled neighbors. TRYING, TRYING to climb the socio-economic ladder, only to
have their wages undercut by illegal employers.We SHOULD try
importing some of the "protected" job skills and see how loud THOSE
Macroeconomics:Lesson 1: Recessions aren't caused by
immigration. The worldwide recession was caused by the US housing bubble, among
other things, which was caused by stupid investing, not immigration or free
trade.Lesson 2: There are a number of tools available to combat
recessions and decrease unemployment. One of the tools that would be popular to
this audience is tax cuts. But none of the real tools involve being mean to
immigrants. Greece, by the way, is plenty mean to immigrants, and that
hasn't been the slightest help to their employment situation.Lesson 3: Immigrants come when jobs are plentiful and leave when jobs are
scarce. After the recession hit, we saw a drastic reduction in immigration. In
fact, at one point, we even saw a tiny reduction in undocumented immigrants. And
I suspect that if we had an open immigration system, we would have seen more
substantial emigration of former immigrants, who would leave knowing that when
jobs were plentiful again, they could easily come back.Look, I know
we were all hurt by this recession. But please, do your research, place the
blame where it belongs, and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
A number of above anti-immigrant commenters could stand to learn a bit of
economics.Microeconomics:Lesson 1: Trade makes both
parties better off. Otherwise they wouldn't voluntarily engage in trade.
This includes trading labor.Lesson 2: If the price of oranges go
down, demanders will buy more oranges. If the price of labor goes down,
demanders will buy more labor. If you could pay a plumber 1/4 of what the
current market price is, I dare say more of us would hire plumbers to unclog our
drains instead of doing it ourselves. The number of jobs is not a fixed quantity
to be "stolen" by foreigners.Lesson 3: When the government
imposes protectionist or otherwise idiotic policies on a free market, it results
in long lines and black markets. Perhaps many of you remember the long lines
that resulted from gasoline price controls, and how quickly they disappeared
once the government stopped interfering. Regrettably, we have yet to see the
same happy ending in the labor market. The moment the immigration quotas cease
to exist, there will no longer be long lines to get visas, and no such thing as
Though a ruling in favor of gay marriage would not hurt any traditional marriage
that I know of (to say otherwise is poor logic), the court should not rule in
the favor of gay marriage.Given the fact the constitution
doesn't require that gay marriage be allowed, this is rightly a political
decision, not a decision for the courts.
spiceyBackhanded slap attacking people instead of the issue?The compact seems to be a diversion to keep from discussing the issues.
Far more serious in my estimation than allegedly greedy businesspeople seeking
cheaper labor are gratuitously meanspirited and vindictive citizens talking
nonsense and spreading lies about immigration reform.
The current Senate bill and the Obamacare act do have one thing in common. It
is unlikely we will know of all the special and bad provisions hiding in the
nooks and crannies of the Senate bill until it is passed and signed and
implementation has begun.prelax has it partly right. Why should we
believe Obama will enforce new laws, or that future Congresses will continue to
authorize and fund improvements in border security ??Why should we
believe Washington at all ??
Can civil and thoughtful comments be factual or are they based on feelings?
Instead of allowing foreigners in to do the work Americans wont do, lets invite
the tea party and the minutemen to quit their jobs and do this work instead.
"That is the framework Utah's families have said they would like to
see."Not so, the support for the compact is strictly business
driven. How many people signed it? 4000?Does anyone believe that
Obama would enforce new laws?
No!No amnesty under whatever name. We MUST secure the
border first, before any special treatment for those who are here illegally.
Otherwise it is just the 1986 Simpson-Mazzoli trick all over again. That
granted amnesty for millions on the promise the border would be secured. But,
the border was NOT secured, leaving us with the mess we have today.Once the border is secured, then we can talk about a "path to
citizenship" that ensures LEGAL immigrants enjoy the benefits of their
having followed our laws, and those here illegally get in line behind them.It may be bad politics to argue for this approach, but it is the right
thing to preserve our country and the rule of law that attracts so many to it.
I agree with the Deseret News editorial on immigration reform and question the
motivation of our own Utah Senator Mike Lee.Why should I believe
that Senator Lee's proposal of a step by step approach to immigration
reform is anything other than just another of his small-minded obstructionist
ploys to derail the Obama government? All that his off-the-cuff
"alternate" plan can possibly accomplish at this late juncture (other
than serving up more red meat for his fellow reactionaries) is to further the
impasse in Congress that most of us find so despicable.
America has over 27 million unemployed citizens between the ages of 18 and 64
who have a high school diploma or less. (That number has grown by five million
during the Obama administration.)Additionally, we have over 10 million
teens (ages 15 to 17) who are unemployed. Note all the summer jobs programs
that spring up in cities across the country.It is believed that there are
approximately eight million illegal aliens holding jobs here in the United
States.Time and again the notion that there are jobs Americans won't
do has been proven to be false. Our own people do those dirty, menial jobs
every day.Would we not be a better nation if we coaxed those unemployed
people back to work rather than undercut wages and benefits by importing needy
people from the third world?As it is now, we are paying TWICE. We provide
social services to the long-term unemployed and pay illegal foreign workers to
do the job.It is insane.Frankly, I don't care what the Chamber
of Commerce wants. Their Utah Compact appears to be compassionate, but in
reality is the essence of greed. That's this man's opinion.
The driving force behind immigration reform is not "Utah families", or
American families. It is Corporate America's seemingly never ending quest
for lower wages. Reform will give Corporate America what it wants, which means
the rest of us will continue to see our standard of living erode.
This is just more propaganda from the cheap labor lobby. America does not need
more workers of any kind. America needs more jobs for the workers we already
have.Any proposed reform that does not include mandatory jail terms
for employers of illegal aliens will be a complete failure just as the '86
Amnesty was a failure.The proposed 'path to citizenship'
will guarantee that millions of law abiding legal families remain unemployed and
If the current amnesty bill that is being discussed in D.C. is passed, it will
be the biggest slap in the face to the poor and middle class in America since
the Robber Baron era.We already have 20 million of our own citizens
unemployed. Illegal/unethical employers would like us to add another 15 million
from foreign countries to that number.We have now gotten to the
point where our politicians are more concerned with the welfare of foreign
citizens than they are their OWN citizens!Shameful!
The visa bill that Sen. Lee had and Sen. Hatch put in the the larger immigration
bill. The I-Squared Act. Lets pull it back out and pass it separately.We also should not force out of the country the high tech overseas student
home after we educate them, to compete with the US. (They should be allowed to
get a Green Card).We need to fix legal immigration. The best plan I
have seen is to have a decent no quota but sponsored system of immigration with
the ability later to become a citizen, Rep. Dougall's bill 2011 HB 469 in
2011 has the first part of that. It is the best bill that was supported by both
sides of the immigration debate.We need a simple E-Verify law for
companies 15 or larger to protect against ID theft.If the
"big" US immigration bill passes it will just further divide us. You get
a bill that no one really likes. We need more consensus building and less
compromise. If we focus on what we agree on, we can accomplish the most good.Congress should run a bunch of small simple bills. Utah Compact, No. HB
Entering the United States with good intentions to provide for their families
should not be taken into consideration for illegals when considering immigration
reform. Immigration laws are not broken they are just not being vigorously
enforced. It is so very simple, these people came here illegally and should be
sent home. Should they choose to return, they can return through legal
channels. They haven't just entered the country illegally. They have
had to break additional laws and lied to gain employment and social aid and
assistance. Many a thief has had good intentions of providing for his or
her family when they steal yet we don't go easy on them or treat them with
compassion and dignity. We throw the book at them. And this is what we need to
do with illegals. Forget talk of this foolish Utah Compact.