@higv & Tyler D;You should check out the book '1491';
it is a very interesting history of the Native Americans before the Spanish
arrived. According to the journals of those who first arrived and saw them;
they had a vast, functioning civilization as good or better than those in Europe
did - it just wasn't as mechanical. The natives flourished until European
diseases decimated the populations. Any civilization will crumble if you kill
of 90% of the people; dead people can no longer help the survivors maintain
their civilization. Just think what would happen to us if 90% of the people
here suddenly up and died in just a season.
The SCOTUS has ruled that the citizenship of the parents is irrelevant
concerning the granting of US citizenship to a child born within our borders.
@Roland KayserChildren of diplomats and foreign soldiers
are excluded because they are here as representatives of a foreign nation.
@DarrelNot sure how interesting, not to mention off topic any of
this is, but you’re right – the vast majority of native americans
comprised those three tribes. By the way, estimates for North America are around
2 to 5 million which given the land mass supports my “small tribes”
statement. Scientists estimate at least 80% (probably more) of the
three tribes you mention were done in by disease… not sure who we should
blame for this “microbial genocide.”And given the
populations of Central America today, I’ll stand by the “population
explosion” statement.I totally lost track of the point…
oh yeah, that white people (and by extension the U.S. and the Constitution) are
evil and brown/red people are good (have you studied the Aztecs… they were
the Terminators of pre-columbian America). And that was the only
hyperbolic view I was attempting to add a little perspective to…
It was an amendment to the constitution. A change to it, and it can be changed
again. Determining citizenship of a baby in the hospital would be
easier than processing 11+ million people, running background checks etc. Just
like a drivers license, a recent birth certificate of one of the parents would
I think you’re still a bit confused… native americans lived
throughout the continent in very small tribes for thousands of years. It was
only when Spanish blood and more importantly Spanish religion was introduced did
their population (now mostly Spanish) explode. =============You're history is a bit backwards. Please see what effects the
Spanish had on the Incans, Myans and Aztecs and their population explosion.It is estimated that before Columbus, there were between 50 and 100
million native inhabitants of North and South America. Today there are 5
million. If anything, one could argue genocide on the part of the Spanish.Make no mistake, our European ancestors did them no favors.
Just like many of you, I was born in Salt Lake City, Utah.Therefore, CONSTITUTIONALLY we are all American Citizens.It had
nothing ZERO to do with who our parents were, or where our parents were from.Please stop trampling the Constitution.
Just think........IF the borders would have been secured, as promised back in
'86 - we wouldn't be experiencing this issue.I can
understand the writers frustration. BUT, the 14th amendment is the law. Also,
consider how difficult it would be to determine WHICH babies born in our
hospitals have legal status U.S. parents. His proposal would add a whole new
bureaucratic layer to determine legal status of parents.His
proposal, (even if we didn't have the 14th amendment)would be very costly
The 14th admendment was to assure that the children of slaves were given
citizenship. I don't think the law is relevant now, and is being abused. We
need to amend the amendment, and require at least one parent to be a citizen.
The old switcherooActs 17:2626 And hath made of
one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath
determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitationIt appears your wrong.
@the old switcheroo – “People from Mexico and Guatemala are as
native american as anyone else”I think you’re still a
bit confused… native americans lived throughout the continent in very
small tribes for thousands of years. It was only when Spanish blood and more
importantly Spanish religion was introduced did their population (now mostly
Spanish) explode. So yes, they are as native as, say, my insurance
agent neighbor John Smith who is 1/32 Cherokee.Not sure who the rest
of your comment was directed toward as I never espoused (or excused) any of
those things. I simply pointed out the reality of how all the lands on the
planet came to be populated.
Higv, you make an excellent point that immigrants are STILL endowed by the
creator the right to traverse borders to make a living.Tyler D, I am
not confusing anyone. You are confusing borders with genetics. People from
Mexico and Guatemala are as native american as anyone else. Many have Spanish
blood that was forced on them but MANY do not. You just believe in
conquering when it is convenient and the constitution when it's convenient.
Immigrants from the south are just trying to work and earn a living not take
anyone's land.And if our ancestors actually practiced the
Christian religion that supposedly founded this nation, yes, they would have
turned around and left rather than murder million of people.
@the old switcheroo – “We took the entire US by force from the
ancestors of the very people you are talking about.”I think
you’re confusing Native Americans with the descendants of Cortez…But even granting your assertion, why is it that since that time north
of the Rio Grande developed in the great economy the world has ever known, while
south of the Rio Grande… not so much? It doesn’t excuse
history – although pretty much every country in the world was
“taken” from one group by another group at some point in time
– but what people do to create a better world should matter at least as
much as how their ancestors came to the land.Doesn’t mean the
U.S. is perfect, but there’s a reason why the “land of
opportunity” is located north of the river and not south… and it has
very little to do with the land itself.
Is being called a Racist civil dialogue?
RE: the old switcharoo's comment.Technically half of the
ancestors of the people we allegedly took land from were Spanish Conquistadors
who sort of came in and conquered, ruled and intermarried much of North America
and all of Central and South America. Peoples have been moving and either
conquering, mixing in with, or wind up being conquered for millenia. Indian
tribes contested areas long before Anglos showed up. We just modernized and
mechanized the process.
Again we witness the Trampling - rather than the defense of - of the
Constitution by the radical Right.
How did all of these posters above me obtain their citizenship? Just curious.
isrred shows us how calling people racist has been completely misused, to the
country's detriment. Don't be fooled and don't tolerate others
being called a racist, when they are not. There is no reference to
race in this letter. The illegal alien parents could be of any race and they are
still illegal aliens. It has nothing to do with race, or country of origin, as
long as it is other than the US.Playing the race card shows that
legitimate arguments don't exist for their side, so name calling is the
strategy instead. There really should be a label equal to this despicable
practice. Playing the race card in this way diminishes the address of real
racism today, and hurts our nation, i.e. We the People.
The 14th amendment was intended for Slaves and Indians born in this country not
people visiting or people here illegally. Old Switcharo were our anscestors
supposed to turn around and go back? I am tired of people making us feel guilty
for coming to America legally. We outconquered the Indians who were fighting
each other for centuries before we came here.Conquering has been
going on for millennia before we came here and conquered people lived with the
conquerors. Besides any Indians want to live like there Anscestors did right
Actually, the child has dual citizenship at the time of birth.
The concept of using "anchor babies" to secure a future in America by
and for criminals is abhorrent. (Yes, if you're here illegally, you're
a criminal.) The very term "anchor baby" should arouse anger in
Americans. We are being exploited and our leaders are allowing it to happen. If
these babies are Americans by birth, then I'm a Russian cosmonaut.
Think of why the 14th amendment was written.It was written in a time
when slaves were not considered citizens. To follow your logic, their children
would never have been citizens, having been born to non citizens.To
break that cycle we had to grant citizenship to everyone born here, regardless
of parents nationality.I for one am glad to have the 14 amendment,
my citizenship can never be called into question.
Extreme abuse of the 14th amendment? The amendment is crystal clear: "All
persons BORN or naturalized in the United States...are citizens of the United
States"The last sentence of this letter is one of the most
offensive and racist things I've seen the DesNews print. Shame on you for
propping up this kind of thinking.
Here's a hypothetical example: A Norwegian diplomat stationed in the U.S.
gives birth while in the U.S. The child will be issued a birth certificate by
the hospital. As an adult, should that child decide that he wants to become a
U.S. citizen, he could come here, present his birth certificate, and obtain U.S.
citizenship without any legal questions arising.
I use recycled paper all the time, and it works just fine. I don't think
the 14th amendment was written on recycled paper, but as a supporter of the
Constitution, I think it is as "authentic" as the paper on which the
original Constitution was written, because it became part of the Constitution
through the process specified by the Constitution. It looks like the author
just wants to pick and choose which provisions of the Constitution he agrees
with, and ignore the others as inauthentic, without repealing them in the manner
the Constitution prescribes. What irony.
Grumpy old men....Read some history. We took the entire US by force from the
ancestors of the very people you are talking about. From the trail of tears to
the Treaty of Guadalupe at gunpoint you can't talk about immigration
intelligently without historical context.
And they systematically exploit this misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment --
by the tens of millions.