Comments about ‘Record Big 12 and SEC conference revenue expected to keep climbing’

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Published: Friday, May 31 2013 7:16 p.m. MDT

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Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cougsndawgs:

So you're saying that Chip Brown had more information than Tom Holmoe regarding the Big 12's recruitment of the Indy-WACers? Because Holmoe said there had been no invitation. He never said anything about walking away from them.

Time for you to come to terms: You were just too WAC-ish; TCU and WVU were not. Hence, they're "IN", and you're "OUT". Enjoy your Home-&-Home with Middle Tennessee St.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@naval

Conferences do not extend invites unless they are sure that the school they are going to invite will accept the invitation. At the time BYU had some concerns and were very luke warm about the big 12 and accepting an invitation was not a sure thing. So Holmoe is not lying when he says an "invite was never given" but he also is not telling the entire story.

Your "frantic and emotional" responses are fun however so i can't wait for the next one.

LOL!

WON84
PLANO, TX

"If the NCAA does not budge, then you may see two more teams added. If the waiver is granted, you will see a lot of upset people; especially in the PAC12."

Which is exactly why it will not happen...the Pac 12 made the moves they did in order to meet the 12 school requirement. Allowing the Big 12 to stand pat and do the same simply won't happen.

That said, I'm still not sure this has any impact on BYU. I think the administration loves independence even if it means all of the other sports are competing in a somewhat lesser league. 80% of fans might want the Big 12 but, until Cecil Samuelson does it's going to be tough sledding for the sports fans.

WON84
PLANO, TX

"One can't blame BYU for deciding that independence looked better than a struggling Big 12. But now that the Big 12 is solid, one can't blame the Big 12 for passing on BYU in future expansions. BYU didn't want to help out when they were needed in tough times; why should they be rewarded with membership in good times?"

SoonerUte, I think you're basically right. Though, I don't think that means the door has been bolted shut. I say this because eventually the Big 12 is going to need to get back to 12 for the conference championship game and I don't see them wishing to take on members who pull more from the pie than they bring to the table. No one is going to leave the SEC, ACC, Big 10, or Pac 12 for the conference and the desireable pieces of the Big East are now in the ACC. In other words, BYU is definitely the best option and the likely question is whether or not the administration will ever consider leaving independence.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter:

"Conferences do not extend invites unless they are sure that the school they are going to invite will accept the invitation."

Conferences don't extend invites to schools they don't WANT either. And that's why you're all alone, irrelevant, and scheduling Home-&-Homes with the Sun Belt.

Oh...and the Pac-12 invited Texas.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

SoonerUte:
"But now that the Big 12 is solid, one can't blame the Big 12 for passing on BYU in future expansions. BYU didn't want to help out when they were needed in tough times; why should they be rewarded with membership in good times?"

A very legitimate question, and one that may haunt BYU for the remainder of their existence...time will tell. Under current circumstances though, BYU and Cincy seem to be the best schools available if the big 12 ever expands. I also appreciate your insight into why BYU backed away...it was troubling times for the big 12 and BYU had just left a troubling situation in their previous conference. From things Holmoe and DeLoss Dodds have said it doesn't sound as though there are lingering hard feelings on either side.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Naval Vet:
What is it you're not understanding? Why would the Big 12 extend an invitation to a school that had already backed away. The reason Holmoe is saying there was never an invite is because many BYU fans were, and are still under the impression that BYU turned down an invite from the Big 12. Duckhunter is right...the Big 12 pursued TCU and later WVU because those schools wanted the big 12 with no strings attached. None of the situation in any regard suggests the Big 12 didn't want BYU.

As far as the PAC 12 inviting Texas...all I can say is dumb move (and comparing an invite to Texas with an invite to BYU is apples oranges and you know it) Look, the Big 12 would have loved to invite ND and Arkansas, the B1G would love to invite Texas also. But those two conferences decided to test the waters behind closed doors and save face. The PAC obviously wanted Texas bad enough that they didn't care about being publicly spurned.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@naval

But you don't know that, in fact you don't really know anything it is all just wishful thinking on your part, and realy pathetic wishful thinking to boot.

As for me, well I like independence and have wanted BYU to go independent for a couple of decades. I'm not saying I would never want them in a conference but as for now I want to see how far they can go as an independent so whether the big12 wants, or does not want, BYU is of zero consequence to me. This is something I've wanted for a long time so I am enjoying it, and so far it appears to be working out just fine.

How's dwelling in the cellar of the pac12 working out for you? yes I know you'll say it is awesome but give it a few more years and you'll change your tune. Being constantly beaten down like utah has been in every single sport will wear on you, it probably already has you just try to use false bravado to maintain a calm appearance rather than the utter panic you truly feel.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cougsndawgs:

"What is it you're not understanding? Why would the Big 12 extend an invitation to a school that had already backed away. The reason Holmoe is saying there was never an invite is because many BYU fans were, and are still under the impression that BYU turned down an invite from the Big 12."

No, the reason Holmoe said that was because your Indy-WACey fanbase was pestering him about getting into the Big 12, but he was powerless, since the Big 12 didn't WANT you. Holmoe did NOT say, "we backed away from a potential invite". He said there WAS no invite. Honestly, I don't know why it's so difficult for you to understand that you're just not wanted by any relevant expanding conference. TCU and WVU were; but you were NOT. So good luck in your epic showdown with Middle Tennesee St. You're midmajors forever.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter:

"As for me, well I like independence and have wanted BYU to go independent for a couple of decades."

Of course you do. Indy-WACers have always preferred playing "small ball" schedules. Beating up on the weakest teams in the country is part of your cougar "brand". And now that the WAC is dead, you've moved on to the Big [L]East, C-USA, and the Sun Belt. With any luck, you'll break into the fertile Michigan and Ohio recruiting fields via Home-&-Homes with Akron and Eastern Michigan.

Indy-WACers value getting the "easy win" over "earning respect" that comes from challenging oneself vs. the best teams in the country. Indy-WACers prefer to "back in" to the Top-25 ala 10+ wins vs. weak SOS rather than "earning" it on the field by proving oneself against the best teams in the country.

So yes, you'll get no argument from me that you DO IN FACT prefer Independence.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Naval Vet:
Why dont you go ahead and tweet Holmoe and ask him about your deluded opinion of what he was saying to the fan base and the situation as it occurred. Holmoe also addressed other things about the situation in his tweets indicating that the Big 12 wanted BYU to jump without contractual assurances. He has made it clear that there were MANY discussions with the Big 12 and that they cane to BYU not the other way around. If it makes you feel better to believe the Big 12 never wanted BYU despite all the indications to the opposite (google it...you will find it was just about EVERYONE that knew the Big 12 came to BYU and WANTED them before TCU and WVU were even considered). If it makes you feel better about yourself as a ute fan, then be my guest. After all ignorance truly is bliss. Just answer one question with yes or no...this is your chance to prove whether you're just a ute homer and can't see two sides to anything, or you can be reasonable. Would the Big 12 have discussions with BYU if they didn't WANT them?

Wookie
Omaha, NE

There is a lot of assumptions taking place and as the saying goes...

As far as why people talk about possible partnerships is to get a feel for what is reasonable or possible. That does not necessarily mean that they will actually seal the deal or that they are interested more than just luke warm at best. For Naval Vet, Duckhunter, Cougsndawgs,and myself there is a lot of speculation with no real answers. We weren't in the room, Mr. Holmoe doesn't know what the intent was as a matter of fact. All we know is that discussions occurred and nothing resulted. Speculation reigns thereafter.

I am happy to be a Ute in the PAC-12 and I am happy that the Y is independent. I am happy that both schools are pleased with their current positions. Should not the fans also be happy? If unhappiness exists, one has to ask the question as to whether they support their school and believe they are in the best place possible.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Wookie:
Well said my friend. I'm happy, you're happy...you're right I should just leave Nav to his musings and grumblings. For someone that seems so happy to be in the PAC 12 he sure spends a lot of time trying to make stuff up and trash BYU. I'm afraid maybe a cougar ate his mother or something.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cougsndawgs:

My, my, my. What an emotional outburst. Feeling a bit WAC-ish there, I can see. Well, I can't blame you for that. You are.

For what it's worth, I have no interest in what "everybody knew". I'm only concerned with what "can be proven/supported". Now on that note, I can PROVE the Indy-WACers were NOT invited to the Big 12. I can PROVE that Holmoe admitted there had been no invite. I can PROVE that conferences don't invite schools that they don't want.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Emotional outburst? I think I yawned while I wrote that last bit. On the other hand Nav you seem bitter and upset that for all you can PROVE you still can't prove the Big 12 didn't want BYU. Don't give up Nav...keep googling. And relax...it's sports for crying out loud, whether BYU wins or loses or Utah is in the PAC 12 winning or losing, it all has nothing to do with our lives in any way...it's entertainment. Try and enjoy it instead of acting so bitter. I'll enjoy watching your utes because I love football regardless of who's playing it. I'll be in Philly in September, I'll take you to lunch and we can talk smack some more. In the meantime, enjoy the game, and have fun watching it, that's what it was invented for. Cheers

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cougsndawgs:

Here's my proof that the Big 12 did not want the Indy-WACers...

(1) They invited TCU and WVU.
(2) They did NOT invite the Indy-WACers.
(3) The Indy-WACers WANT to play in the Big 12, and that's why fans had been pestering Holmoe about getting there. To which Holmoe replied that there had been no offer (not "we had backed away from the Big 12, thus scaring them off from extending an offer.").

P.S.: I have no plans to be anywhere outside of Philadelphia in September too. Philly in the fall? Wouldn't miss it.

MyPerspective
Salt Lake City, UT

Cougsndawgs, Duckhunter, SLC BYU Fan, DEW Cougars, MacNasty, WON84...

When the Pac-12 expanded and based their criteria for targets on 1) academics, 2) research, and 3) athletic prowess and it became clear that byu was never even considered, I believed that a lot of the nonsense you people shovel would come to an end. What an eye opener for 30 years of talking and dreaming and more talking evaporate to into nothing in the course of one afternoon.

Over time, the realities so clear on that day have now been distorted here you are..still talking like everyone wants to be byu and that byu can have anything it wants. Obviously, those ideas are simply laughable. Further, if byu fans are as happy with independence and as you suggest, why the continual blather about being in a conference?

Cougsndawgs: "As far as the PAC 12 inviting Texas...all I can say is dumb move..." You fail to mention that after the Pac-12 closed the land mark deal with the networks, Texas asked to join the Pac-12. Scott responded that the conference has exactly what it wants and "thanks, but no thanks."

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

MyPerspective:
"When the Pac-12 expanded and based their criteria for targets on 1) academics, 2) research, and 3) athletic prowess and it became clear that byu was never even considered, I believed that a lot of the nonsense you people shovel would come to an end".

Do you see the PAC 12 mentioned anywhere in this article or discussion? Most BYU fans realize that BYU is not a research institution and was never in consideration for PAC 12 membership...I've even stated that for what the PAC 12 wanted Utah deserved to be there. So why are you bringing them into the discussion? As far as nonsense...what nonsense have we been shoveling? The fact the Big 12 had discussions with BYU? The fact BYU was one of the first institutions approached by the Big 12 for expansion? The only nonsense I'm seeing is from you and Nav who want to desperately make all of that untrue because it would damage your frail PAC12 dependent egos.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

MyPersoective continued:
"You fail to mention that after the Pac-12 closed the land mark deal with the networks, Texas asked to join the Pac-12. Scott responded that the conference has exactly what it wants and "thanks, but no thanks."

You fail to see that Texas saw that the Big 12 was going to fall apart if Oklahoma (who was first to approach the PAC12) left and took anyone else with them. You clearly don't understand leverage. Texas is the highest grossing, largest budget athletic program in America...any conference would love to have them and Texas knows it. What you conveniently failed to mention is that Texas wanted the LHN and more money than others (not surprising), and when the PAC12 wouldn't allow that Texas didn't cave or budge from what they wanted (clearly the PAC had no leverage over them). ESPN: "If Texas supported equal revenue sharing, then that would have meant more regional networks for the Pac-12 and even more money. But Texas wasn't willing to do that according to multiple sources...Scott tried to keep Texas at the bargaining table, but PAC12 presidents were turned off at that point and stated they were happy..."

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Naval Vet:
Why didn't you ever answer my question? I was pretty sure you wouldn't because you and I and everyone else knows the answer. No conference is going to have discussions with a program they don't want or don't have any interest in. Why does it bother you so much that the Big 12 was interested in BYU? Is it because it causes cognitive dissanonce for you? You're expectations and delusions aren't confirmed by reality?

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