Comments about ‘Letters: Founders' values’

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Published: Saturday, May 25 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The murder rate today is virtually the same as it was in 1960. That is before the Supreme Court ruled that prayer in public schools was unconstitutional.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

Our "founding fathers" that had as many different ideas about values as there were "founding fathers" and no more spoke with one voice then we do today, those "founding fathers?

Curmudgeon
Salt Lake City, UT

David, if God is missing from your life, or if you have lost your values, stop blaming the government, gangs, the devil, or anyone other than the man in the mirror.

John Charity Spring
Back Home in Davis County, UT

This letter is the most correct of any to appear in this paper in a long time. Indeed, the Obama administration's abandonment of the values of the Founding Fathers is destroying this Country.

The Founding Fathers believed and established this Country on principles such as hard work, thrift, and industry. The current left-wing government has abandoned these values and replaced them with an entitlement mentality. Now, large segments of the population sit around in their laziness and sloth expecting that their needs will be taken care of by others.

The Fathers knew that citizens must be expected to provide for themselves, or disaster would be the inevitable result. Those who subsist on welfare, rather than working, use their free time to enage in crime, substance abuse, and immorality. These are the causes of America's ills, not gun ownership.

Rather than attacking guns, we should attack the moral corruption that it being supported and promulgated by left-wing governmental policies. This is what the Founding Fathers would want.

micawber
Centerville, UT

I agree that we need to focus on values. But I don't see how government has taken God out of our lives.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Nice try with this article but if you are a liberal, guns cause crime, matches cause arson and super sized drinks cause obesity! No one is responsible for their choices and we are all victims of an unjust society, not the consequences of our own choices. Terrorist aren't really terrorists but "freedom fighters". Abortion isn't killing unborn human beings its a choice and a "constitutional right". Welfare dependency is compassion and the is no God and therefore there is no right or wrong behavior and no one is accountable for their behavior. Big, over reaching government is good, freedom is bad and there is no tyranny. The perfect recipe for societal chaos! But that's preferable to them than faith, self control, personal freedoms and self government because for them its all about control and power! Who's plan was that in the first place?

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Nonsense. I didn't get a chance to know the founders any more than anyone else alive today, but I suspect that they would ba appalled at the gun violence of today. They were smart, educated men. The elites of their time, as it were. I'm pretty sure that, had they been able to see the outcome, they would have approached the second amendment differently. Not with religion or pining for some mythical era past, but with real thought and action.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

How exactly was God taken out of your life? Are you not allowed to go to church? Have the churches been turned into warehouses? Are you not allowed to pray? Just because you don't get to force everyone to believe or worship or even behave they way you want doesn't mean God was taken out of your life.

Speaking of founding values the founding fathers created a separation between government and churches specifically to protect a diversity of opinions that existed then. I'm sure some opinions, and I would guess more than just atheism, seem Godless to you. However, it was a specific principle of the founding fathers to protect a persons right to that opinion.

embarrassed Utahn!
Salt Lake City, UT

Thank Gosh for the Federal Government protecting the rights of Atheists. I haven't raped, killed, robbed. And, I follow the Speed Laws in our communities and freeways. I'm really amused by how many suit and tie wearing Sunday drivers speed by my house every week. Morality is not exclusive to believers.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

@Mountainman.... you just keep up with your comic book version of the world.... where everything is nice and tidy... black and white.... good and evil.... .and all problems only have one answer. Because surely no democrats went to war in the middle east - only republicans. And only republicans pay taxes.... care for their kids and go to church.

It really amazes me that adults have such closed minded views of the world. That they really think because someone is a democrat that they hate god, don't love the country... less alone hunt. It is mind numbing to think of such a simplistic view of the world.

There were two plans..... and only one offered freedom of choice... freedom to choose the wrong answer.... and that is not the one that mandates people live a particular lifestyle. It is so funny that paying taxes is confused with lack of freedom. Those who choose to outlaw bad choices are the ones against the Lords plan... those who would impose some version of Christian sharia law.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

It's time to pull your head out of the sand. The "State Religion" of America is either atheism or secular humanism. We have just as much government control of the doctrines dictated by government to establishments of religion as any European country. Obama has dictated that establishments of religion WILL provide birth control and abortions to anyone who works at those establishments, regardless of what the 1st Amendment says about the limits the people put on the government.

Life has no value in America. Over 50,000,000 unborn babies were sacrificed by their mothers since 1976. Which founding father would have ever even uttered the word "abortion"?

This week the Boy Scouts voted to protect our sons and grandsons from leaders whose idea of sexuality would have been abhorred by the founding fathers.

No change in values? It all depends on how much you think "values" have slipped since this nation was founded.

The murder rate is a reflection of the lack of respect that people have for God and for God's children.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

1. If we don't have God in our lives - how is that the Government's fault?
[Unless the letter writer is suggesting Government forced religion. Ala, The Taliban, Sharia Law, etc.]

2. Gangs operate on the same premise as "Capitalism".
Buy and sell whatever the market demands,
Get Government out of the way,
Dog eat dog,
only the strong survive,
do whatever is necessary to crush the competition,
King of the Hill.
[Unless the letter writer is suggesting we eliminate Capitalism.]

Sometimes, it seems Conservative can't see that the "values" they espouse are sometimes their own worst enemy...

micawber
Centerville, UT

@Mike Richards. The number of abortions is decreasing. Does President Obama get credit for that?

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

"It seems that maybe the problem started when God was taken out of our lives by government..."

Don't be silly.

If you want to live in a country run according the conservative religious dogma, Uganda, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran await you.

Otherwise, try instead living in the real world of constitutionally protected liberty, including freedom from being forced to abide by the religious rules set forth by religions to which you don't subscribe.

If your religion wants you to do certain things that make no sense but are otherwise harmless to other people, then go ahead, knock yourself out.

But if you want everyone to abide by the nonsensical rules of your own religion, then expect a legal challenge, and expect to lose.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ UtahBlueDevil. First of all, I never said what you said I said so thanks for putting words in my mouth. Secondly, what I DID say I have learned by experience and observation and its no comic book version of the world. It may be to you but then again, who's version of our country is a comic book version? Now that is a relevant question.

Onion Daze
Payson, UT

“The Founding Fathers believed and established this Country on principles such as hard work, ...”.

A portion of “The Founding Fathers” utilized slave labor to accomplish most of the “hard work” on their private properties.

The nation that they helped establish, when all is said and done, is among the best on this planet. But these men had some flaws and their works were not 100 percent perfect.

Mister J
Salt Lake City, UT

To Mountanman May 25

UBD is right. You do paint broad brush strokes w/ only 2 colors (black and white). The last Star Wars flick (Revenge...) may not have been right but they weren't wrong when they said, "Only the Sith think in terms of absolutes."

Personally, I think you taking the easy way out psychologically, emotionally, & mentally to limit your perception and beliefs.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

New Hampshire and Vermont have the highest rates of atheism, and the lowest rates of crime in this nation. When all 50 states are looked at as a whole there's just no correlation between religiosity and gun violence (and I'm being generous saying there's no correlation since the Bible belt states in the south are very high for gun violence).

@Mountanman
We know guns don't kill people, but people kill people with guns (to the tune of 30,000 a year in this nation including gun-used suicides), so by regulating guns we are regulating people so that the people who want to kill people with guns are less likely to have those guns.

Mister J
Salt Lake City, UT

re: Mike Richards on 5/25

And here we go....

1) The "state religion" is a philosophy? Hmmm!? 2) The alleged decline in this nation has nothing to do w/ *values*. *values* are subjective as is a philosophy. It has everything to do w/ the creation of the Fed which was the beginning of the corporate state i.e. Fascism in the US. 3) Murder has some to do w/ lack of respect but there is more correlation with the fact it is a crime of passion.

Tell me Mike; Are you for replacing the Eagle as the symbol of the US w/ an ostrich??

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Back to slavery! Back to oppressing women! Back to killing Indians! Yep, we need to go back to the values of the Founders!

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