@Ultra Bob"I am not an accountant, tax expert or genius. My hope
is that someone more intelligent than me might be able to see the merit of my
idea and prove it out."I am two of those three things and I can
say hundreds of tax policy papers are written each year and discussed along with
hundreds (if not thousands of ideas) each year in many forums and publications.
Ideas are floated, evaluated and discussed by the Administration, Treasury, the
ABA,the AICPA, TEI, academia, many tax publications, etc. These ideas that you
frequently throw out have been discussed and abandoned because they have major
flaws. As I pointed out, some of the richest people in our country would go
totally untaxed under your latest proposal (and it could be planned around all
day long). You seem to have a real interest in tax policy, so I
invite you to perhaps take a tax course or two online (to get up to speed) and
subscribe to some tax policy publications such as you can find on the websites
of the AICPA.
Cpafred.I am not an accountant, tax expert or genius. My hope is that
someone more intelligent than me might be able to see the merit of my idea and
prove it out. Trading in commodities is the same as any other
business, having employees is irrelevant. Buying and selling options, futures,
investments, stocks, bonds etc. is no different than buying and selling
toothpaste. The transactions are defined in money. Fairness can only be
obtained if income of every sort is income. When you sell something
and receive money there is no tax to be collected. Doesn’t matter if the
buyer is domestic or foreign. If your item becomes a commodity in foreign
markets there is no tax. But if the item becomes a commodity in American
markets the business operation in the USA would be required to pay the tax. Lots of questions unanswered, but the savings of time, money,
government employees plus enabling us to keep our capitalistic economic system
make it worth while to check out.
@Mountanman"About 47% of Americans benefit from the IRS, the rest of
us do not benefit at all."I assume you have a federal highway or
two in Idaho? If so, and you drive on them, then the IRS has benefited you.
What about the military, safe food, safe water...I could go on and
on... Without the IRS, our country would have no revenue (because
few would pay their full liability) and none of the above would exist.
@Ultra Bob"If the business was required to pay an amount equal
to the flat rate on every outgoing payment, then everyone is paying, the owner,
the supplier, the employee, and even the foreign worker and owner no matter
where they are."This is a horrible idea. What if I am a wealthy
commodity trader (with no employees) making millions each year trading tens of
billions of dollars in options and futures... how is my income taxed?What if I am an individual inventor who sells my invention to a Cayman company
who does no business in the USA. How is the millions I earn from selling my
invention taxed? Hint, the US gov't can't compel a Cayman company to
collect and remit tax to the USA. Without the filing of some form by me, how
will the US gov't even know about the transaction? When there
is an amount paid to the US government, how will they know the amount paid is
correct (or what it is even for) without filing some sort of declaration (under
penalty of perjury)? How often must these payments to the government be paid
and forms filed (daily, monthly)?
Ultra Bob:"...I am appalled at the thought the there are 5000 IRS
employees needed to handle the IRS services in Utah.You need to tell
that to your Senator and Congressman. They are the people that make/pass the
tax laws. Of course, the IRS has to develop the forms and procedures to
implement the laws. That also adds layers of complication.Take
IRA's for example. It started off fairly simple... Put away some money in a
retirement account and pay taxes on it later. Then along came Mr. Roth who
complicated the process with his ROTH IRA. But that wasn't enough
complication to satisfy Congress so, in addition to the traditional and ROTH IRA
they made the SEP and the Simple IRA with provisions to roll over, convert and
borrow. Now it's so complicated even trained IRS employees have difficulty
Spoc & Wastintime, I feel much better now. The proposal for a flat tax
on every sort of income without exception and without deduction in the best way
to make support for the government fair and honest. And easy to collect. Every penny of outgoing money from a business is income to somebody. If the
business was required to pay an amount equal to the flat rate on every outgoing
payment, then everyone is paying, the owner, the supplier, the employee, and
even the foreign worker and owner no matter where they are. No more
individual tax returns. No more tax year. The tax is paid to the
government at the same time as paid to the receiver. No more taxes on
business income retained. Only the outgoing money is taxed.
@ Wasting time. About 47% of Americans benefit from the IRS, the rest of us do
not benefit at all. In fact, the IRS has bankrupted more Americans than medical
bills. Now Obamacare will be enforced by the IRS! Imagine that, the IRS in
charge of our healthcare!
Oh brother! Another public worker complaining about a furlough day. A day off
without pay. Not a pay cut. It's the only thing the union would allow.
There is no real pay cuts here, like in the private sector, where businesses
must be productive and provide a profit.
Re:UltraBobThe IRS office in UT is a REGIONAL U.S. office meaning it
processes returns from several states. We're it not for our
IRS workers, we wouldn't have the many benefits we enjoy as U.S. citizens.
Bob, I appreciate your willingness to pay taxes. It is a common misconception
that because there is an office in Utah that it's sole function is to serve
just Utah. Although I do not work for the IRS, I believe your
individual tax return is not processed here but in Fresno, CA. Ogden is a
District office which appears to be a Q&A office for anyone needing help
within the Rocky Mountain District of Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, and
Colorado. Ogden also processes business withholding payments and business tax
returns for 26 states and all international payments and returns. A significant
number of IRS people are seasonal. I do not know if they will be included in the
furloughs. I am sure there are other functions I am not aware of but it is
sufficient to say that the numbers are not related to Utah's population,
just like the dollars spent in Utah by the Feds is more than the taxes taken in
because of the national defense and land management issues.I can
tell you that the total number of employees is down IRS wide by about 30 percent
because of electronic filing of returns.
@Utah Soldier,I'm just happy it's down to 11 from 22. It
could have been worse. On the other hand, we'll see what the next fiscal
Be glad it is only 5 days. Other federal employees are facing 11 days of unpaid
As a staunch supporter of our national government and the rights, freedoms and
the services it provides, I am appalled at the thought the there are 5000 IRS
employees needed to handle the IRS services in Utah. As for
hurting businesses, the only way we will get tax reform is by hurting those
people who have made such a mess of our tax systems.
Austerity saves nothing. It just shifts the costs from one place to another.
That's one of the reason we have the greatest prison populations in the
world, about the only place we are number 1. Check out the costs to that little
tidbit. Think you're saving by being frugal on education and paying minimum
wages? Think again.
How sad! Five days without work. Boo-hoo. I can feel the impact on my life
already, as I'm sure others throughout the State are. Try being out of
work 3 YEARS then tell me how tough being off 5 DAYS is. Go cry somewhere else.