Comments about ‘Letters: Paycheck Fairness Act’

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Published: Friday, May 17 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Once again we see the belief that a secretary should make as much as a brain surgeon

Fact: more women choose to be secretaries than men

Fact: more men choose to be brain surgeons than women

Fact: job differences account for nearly all the disparity between men's and women's pay

No, a female secretary should not make as much as a male brain surgeon

Howard Beal
Provo, UT

Workers better unionize.

Wait, R's hate that. Never mind...

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

"Once again we see the belief that a secretary should make as much as a brain surgeon"

Actually, it's the belief that a FEMALE secretary should be paid as much as a MALE secretary and that a FEMALE brain surgeon should be paid as much as the MALE brain surgeon. The 2 are doing the same work at the same proficiency. So why should their pay be less because they are female whose bosses have been sexists since the stone age?

Let their pay be equal!

Amazing idea, right?

Yet, it is another idea which repubs are against.

Funny, when repubs lose the next Presidential election in 2016. They won't have to look very far as to why they don't have women, young people, and minorities on their side. There won't be any need to come up with some crazy commie "mainstream media" conspiracy to be used as some excuse.

Look at your OWN platform.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

From a recent Time Magazine article:

It’s a galling and often cited statistic: women make 77 (or 81, or 82) cents to a man’s dollar. President Obama campaigned on it last year, announcing in an ad that “women being paid 77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men isn’t just unfair — it hurts families.”

As the article points out later on:

"If you control for things like college majors and occupations, the pay gap, or the discrepancy between men’s and women’s earnings that can be attributed to bias and discrimination, shrinks down to about one-third of its size

In other words, 93 cents to the man’s dollar. Not 77 cents. Not 81 cents. Ninety-three cents."

Conclusion:

Either this letter writer was willfully deceitful by again throwing out the 77 cent claim or does not even have a basic understanding of the US economy.

Again, I repeat:

A brain surgeon SHOULD make more than a secretary

Game. Set. Match

Grundle
West Jordan, UT

I know that this does not fit into the popular narrative that some posters like to push forward, but conclusions of a 2009 research report commissioned by the Federal Dept. of labor...

"In 2007, women accounted for 51 percent of all workers in the high-paying Management,professional, and related occupations. They outnumbered men in such occupations as financial managers, human resource managers, education administrators, medical and health
services managers, and accountants and auditors.

In 1970, the median usual weekly earnings for women working full-time was only 62.1 percent of those for men; by 2007, the raw wage gap had shrunk from 37.9 percent to just 21.5 percent.

However,despite these gains the raw wage gap continues to be used in misleading ways to advance public policy agendas without fully explaining the reasons behind the gap."

1 - A greater percentage of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than full-time work.

2 - A greater percentage of women than men tend to leave the labor force for child birth, child care and elder care.

Grundle
West Jordan, UT

3 - Some of the wage gap is explained by the percentage of women who were not in the labor force during previous years, the age of women, and the number of children in the home.

4 - Women, especially working mothers, tend to value “family friendly” work place policies more than men.

5 - Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.

This 2009 Report goes into excruciating detail of the research and I have only touched on the the conclusions.

A 2010 analysis of Census Bureau data showed that young, single women who’ve never had a child actually earned 8% more than their male counterparts in most U.S. cities. The findings seem to be driven by an ongoing trend: more and more women – now more than men, in fact – are attending college and going on to relatively high-paying professional careers.

Does this mean that there are not issues and problems to be addressed?

No.

But a misrepresentation of the facts does nothing to help the dialog.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

As has been pointed out, longevity in the work place is a large factor in the equal pay discrepancy! It is a fact that women tend to work less years than men for a variety of reasons.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

In my previous employment I was often involved with the problems with workers and their supervisors.

When not otherwise occupied I would dream of the time when workers didn’t have to come to work, didn’t have to succeed on any thing but their own production, and discrimination of any sort was gone. The supervisor would not even know the sex, age, race, or political philosophy or even care about anything other than the product of the employee.

I think people should be free to make their own social world without the threat of employment consequences.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Nobody with any brains is saying a secretary should make as much as a brain surgeon. Those of us with brains are saying women shouldn't be paid less for the same work and their often superior performance--just because they are women. That is, to use a word that "conservatives" don't seem to understand, "unjust."

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I have to admit that when I saw this headline I thought... What is this country comming to (because I thought it was going to be some article about how the GOVERNMENT deciding what fair pay is).

Why should the GOVERNMENT be deciding what employers pay?

After reading I realised it was about equal_pay for women. They should get equal pay for equal work. But who gets to decide which employees are doing "equal work"? The Employer? Or the Government?

It just ERKS me to see Americans pushing for a Government controled Pay "Fairness" act. Just sounds like such a Marxist thing to do (trust the governmetn to decide what "Fair" pay is for the people).

It's just so hard to write LAWS that determine what "Fair" is. Because as most adults know... all people don't agree what "Fair" is. Especially if they have a vested interest (ie they want the Women's vote, or the Hispanic vote, or the Gay vote... just propose a law that increases their pay (or decreases their taxes) and you got em!!!

I just don't like the presidence it sets. Government deciding and mandating what "Fair" pay is to employers.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Irony guy

"Nobody with any brains is saying a secretary should make as much as a brain surgeon"

The letter writer(Drora Oren) throws out the 77 percent number, which does not take into account differences in pay between brain surgeons and secretaries.

So yes, Drora is suggesting it is wrong for a brain surgeon to make more than a secretary.

Its not too difficult to understand, and yet liberals still have a hard time.

ugottabkidn
Sandy, UT

Attention. Attention to all you anti-government people. Who will speak out for the rank and file middle class if not the government which is the only protector we have left now that only 7 in 100 are union workers. You all base your judgements on your limited experience so you think because your company has made a point to be fair, (because of government and labor laws) that all will follow suit. Well guess what? There is a major attempt by the real government to roll back rules and regulations to pre 1900 levels and take all empowerment from the 98% and have created a wage gap that has now eclipsed even the 1920's. That government are the multinationals and banks that control everything they do and don't do in Washington. The irony, they have convinced you to do their bidding and they are laughing at you behind your back.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

ugottabkidn
I'm not "anti-government". But I trust my boss more than I do some beurocrat in Washington who doesn't even know me or what I do to decide what my work is worth.

Just because you don't want the government deciding what we get paid... doesn't neccesarily make you "Anti-Government".

Political_rheotoric and believing political_stereotypes is lame (labeling people "anti-government" if they question anything the governmetn does, or calling people "Socialist" if they approve of government social programs, etc).

We need to tone down the rhetoric and talk about the ideas themselvs (not the people, or calling people names).

"Fairness" is just not something I want to leave up to a Government beurocrat to decide. If that makes me "anti-government"... then I guess I'm guilty.

What super_trust_worthy people would you put in charge of the "Fairness" department in Washington? People like those at the IRS? (who just proved hunman nature is to abuse that power)? Medicaid people (again provably full of fraud). Do you think the "Fairness" department won't eventually get taken over by fraud and graft? Ooops... there I go being anti_government again.

Howard Beal
Provo, UT

I would have to say this, in the public sector women and men are on the same exact pay scale...

Summer
Salt Lake City, UT

As has already been noted, women typically work in jobs that pay less. Women take time more off for children than men. Women work less hours and over-time than men to support the children. Women work for more "family friendly" employers, who most likely pay less. And, perhaps, women aren't as aggressive as men in negotiating pay.

I don't mean to be harsh, but if there is a "problem" with this which results in women being paid less than men, then the women are to "blame". Actually, I don't blame women at all. I am glad that family is more important to them than increasing their pay more. I applaud this. But let's don't force a law when there really isn't a problem - there isn't a problem because women choose this by their own freedom of choice. And the consequence of this are that families benefit. If less pay results, then it is worth it. Let's don't destroy this by passing some law that disrupts the free-market and freedom of choice.

high school fan
Huntington, UT

Why is it that republicans are being blamed for pay disparity? Our current President pays the women of the White House less than the men are paid. Equal pay is a good thing for equal output but the issue is not republican vs democrat. As far as unions are concerned, they want equal pay for all so that they can take it equally from everybody. Non-union workers today make as much or more.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Chris B -- you have COMPLETELY missed a very important point. It's the idea of equal pay for equal work.

That's very important.

No one is saying that a secretary should earn as much as brain surgeon.

But if a man and woman are both stocking shelves at WalMart, shouldn't they be paid the same?

Let me guess -- you're a Republican, right?

one old man
Ogden, UT

high school fan -- let's see some documentation for your ridiculous claim of unequal pay in the White House.

Can't find any?

No surprise.

the old switcharoo
mesa, AZ

Conservatives would have some really great philosophical points, if we didn't have 3000 years of recorded history showing us that women have been held back.

high school fan
Huntington, UT

Ok one old man. Here it is but I would have thought you knew this. In a report dated April 11,2013 it was reported that the median average wage for women in obama's whitehouse is $11,000.00 less than the average median wage for men. Additionally, this figure is almost $2000 worse than two years earlier. In addition, in case you wanted to know, by far most employees in the White House are male, so not only do they not make as much, they don't get hired as much. You have a computer, search it.

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