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Comments about ‘Letters: C02 not a toxin’

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Published: Thursday, May 16 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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stuff
Provo, UT

Well said, Mr. Greer. Mother Nature knows how to throw twists into the false sciences of man, doesn't she. And when she does, they have nothing to stand on and their lies are exposed. Don't give into this GW agenda. It's not about nature but rather about money and control of resources, and ultimately, control of mankind.

embarrassed Utahn!
Salt Lake City, UT

Or..... you could look at the conditions on Venus where greenhouse gases shroud the planet and create surface temperatures that are in the hundreds and could never support life. I'll trust the 97%.

micawber
Centerville, UT

Whether CO2 is a toxin is irrelevant to its effect on the environment of course.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Dr. Greer, I can't believe you'd make such a silly argument.

Tell me, doctor, would you similarly prescribe drowning as a treatment for dehydration?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Photosynthesis people! If we didn't have adequate supplies of C02 in the atmosphere, there would be no life on planet earth! In fact, the rate of photosynthesis increases commensurately with higher concentrations of C02 which is a good thing because it allows more food production!

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

I would expect more compelling arguments and fewer straw men and red herrings from a trained professional.

First of all, no one is arguing that atmospheric CO2 in current concentrations is directly toxic to humans. Surely, in his medical studies, Dr. Greer encountered the adage, "Dose makes the poison." A slightly elevated CO2 concentration in a paper bag for a few minutes can, as he notes, be salutary. But would he say the same thing about breathing 100% CO2? Of course not.

As Mountanman correctly observes, CO2 is required for photosynthesis and plant growth, although some undesirable species like poison ivy seem to show a greater response to increased CO2 than other species. It may be a mixed blessing.

Dr. Greer may want to brush up on his carbonate chemistry. The same chemical response that lowers pH in the bloodstream from breathing in a bag (due to increased dissolved CO2 in the blood >> H2CO3) is occurring globally in the oceans from increased atmospheric CO2 (the globe is essentially in a huge bag receiving the exhalations of industrial respiration, i.e. combustion). That acidification is deleterious to coral reefs and other sea life. You might even say it's toxic.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

CO2 isn't a toxin. No one said it was, at least anyone who knows anything about climate change.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Despite Dr. Greer's assertion, excessive carbon dioxide is indeed toxic, as is any other substance in excess (e.g., water is good for you unless it's in your lungs). A room containing only CO2 would be somewhat hazardous to your health. The good doctor's patients might want to take into account his level of scientific understanding.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "embarrassed Utahn!" or you could look at Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, and the moon Triton. Those bodies are experiencing global warming too. How is it possible for CO2 generated on Earth to warm those bodies too, unless CO2 is not the driver?

Better yet, give us a climate model that is accurate. NASA even found a HUGE hole in the climate change models. Read "New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism" in Forbes. Why trust the output of a faulty model? Would you drive a car or fly in an airplane that that modeled incorrectly and had huge flaws? Why trust faulty climate models?

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "embarrassed Utahn!" or you could look at Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, and the moon Triton. Those bodies are experiencing global warming too. How is it possible for CO2 generated on Earth to warm those bodies too, unless CO2 is not the driver?

Better yet, give us a climate model that is accurate. NASA even found a HUGE hole in the climate change models. Read "New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism" in Forbes. Why trust the output of a faulty model? Would you drive a car or fly in an airplane that that modeled incorrectly and had huge flaws? Why trust faulty climate models?

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Huh?

Claudio
Springville, Ut

Re: Redshirt

"How is it possible for CO2 generated on Earth to warm those bodies too, unless CO2 is not the driver?"

So now there's only one agent cause for stomach aches, fevers, and inflammation? Someone needs to take a basic science course again, or you know, think before writing.

I don't know what sources have fed the doctor the false information he's received about those who are concerned about climate change. I do know I will never seek his services and will be sure my family and friends avoid him as well. Clearly, his scientific understanding is suspect.

jsf
Centerville, UT

CO2 must be over 20,000 ppm for most people to be affected by those levels. Irony Guy that's 50 times what it is today. Generally to be lethal it needs to be 50,000 ppm or greater. A room only filled with CO2 would be at 1,000,000 ppm. Current levels of CO2 are at .04 of one percent of our atmosphere. That's like 400 dollars out of 1,000,000 million dollars.

Your home levels on any day may be as high as 1,000 to 1,500 ppm indoors.

Excessive oxygen in the body is also toxic, and treated by the introduction of higher levels of CO2.

The good doctor's patients might want to take into account his level of scientific understanding which appears to be greater than the level of your understanding. Notice in arguments against Dr. Greer facts simply disappear.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

"or you could look at Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, and the moon Triton. Those bodies are experiencing global warming too."

Says who?

Solar output is actually down slightly. Changes in observed "climate" on other planets has to also take into consideration these planets' elliptical orbits (in the case of Mars and Pluto, wildly more elliptical) and the difficulty of making observations of global average temperatures on these worlds.

Earth is warming, and far faster than any time in human history. The Sun isn't the source. Human-caused increases in atmospheric CO2 through combustion of fossil fuels is directly traceable as the cause of this warming. Despite what your AM radio bloviators are telling you, this is in fact settled science.

Hemlock
Salt Lake City, UT

Anyone denying the retreat of glaciers, rising ocean levels, warmer oceans leading to erratic and severe weather, changing migration patterns of animals due to warming and record high atmospheric C02 is not dealing with reality. One can debate the anthropogenic contribution or the response of nature, but not the current effect. Just as those who vilify immunizations are doomed to suffer communicable diseases and endanger the rest of the community, those who refuse to recognize climate change are following the same course.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Blue" says NASA and other astronomical observers.

Here are the names of some articles from NASA and MIT.

"A Gloomy Mars Warms Up" states that "a slight change in the planet’s surface luster has caused its temperature to rise." What is causing the change? Are our probes polluting the martian atmosphere?

"Jupiter's Three Red Spots" there we find that "Jupiter's recent outbreak of red spots is likely related to large scale climate change"

"Pluto's White, Dark-Orange and Charcoal-Black Terrain Captured by NASA's Hubble"

"Pluto is undergoing global warming, researchers find" from MIT

"Triton Blushes: A Clue to Global Warming?" NASA scientists don't have any explanation for why Triton is warming.

Are you saying that you know more than NASA and MIT researchers?

To "Hemlock" those who claim that CO2 is the driver for climate change are just like those who used a consensus to determine that the earth was flat and at the center of the universe.

Pops
NORTH SALT LAKE, UT

@Blue ("Earth is warming, and far faster than any time in human history.")

The earth is not, in fact, warming faster than any time in human history. It hasn't experienced statistically significant warming for almost 20 years. The rapid warming prior to the current peak was essentially the same rate and duration that has occurred twice in the last 150 years - it was not unprecedented by any stretch of the imagination.

Despite the huge amounts of time, money, and effort spent trying to link warming to atmospheric CO2, nobody has yet successfully established a correlation in the empirical data. The only reasonable conclusion is that the influence of atmospheric CO2 on temperature is too small to worry about.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Mike Richards,

Please read the articles you cite. I couldn’t find the one on Saturn. Here are quotes from the rest:

Triton: “The large Neptunian satellite Triton is a geologically active body that apparently undergoes complex seasonal changes in its 165 year journey around the sun. Because it is the vehicle for the seasonal transport of volatiles, Triton's atmosphere is expected to undergo large changes in temperature and pressure on a time scale of decades.”

Pluto: “we know the sun's output is much too steady to be changing the temperature of Pluto. Pluto's orbit is much more elliptical than that of the other planets, and its rotational axis is tipped by a large angle relative to its orbit. Both factors could contribute to drastic seasonal changes”

Mars: “a wind-whipped, dusty surface has a measurable effect on the amount of sunlight that is reflected by the planet. The results of this research show that an increase in darkened surface areas may account for a one degree Fahrenheit rise in the surface air temperature of the planet.”

jsf
Centerville, UT

Earth is warming, and far faster than any time in human history. (But not earth history) The Sun isn't the source, that is a bit myopic considering this has not ever been ruled out). Human-caused increases in atmospheric CO2 through combustion of fossil fuels is directly traceable as the cause of this warming(no it is not, current increased levels of CO2 have not translated to the same in global warming). This is in fact settled science,(far from settled. Prior to the fifties scientists were saying such changes were not possible, by the seventies they were coming around to the possibility of faster changes, and now we are finding the models of the 2000's were wrong, by actual observations. Even the IPPC says gw increase flatlined for the past twenty years, yet CO2 poured into the atmosphere has increased each year).

silo
Sandy, UT

@Redshirt - "NASA even found a HUGE hole in the climate change models."

Your credibility is now less than zero. It's not enough that you cite a Forbes Op/Ed as your support, but you cite an op/ed written by a lawyer from the Heartland Institute and then embellish that further by claiming that 'NASA..found a HUGE hole'. That claim is patently untrue.

Either you didn't read the article you cited and the study it was based upon, or you read them and intentionally resorted to hyperbole to make some point. Either way, you are dishonest in your tactics, and other readers deserve to know that.

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