@Tyler D "...Nixon...'southern strategy'..."Be
careful not to perpetuate a myth. I recommend reading "The Lost
Majority," by Sean Trende, or at least a good review of it. If you want it
in a nutshell, he examines voting patterns, ideology, and demographics to show
that Republicans won the South the hard way, by appealing to a broad range of
interests and values. If racism played any part at all, it was in keeping the
South loyal to the Democrats for longer than they otherwise would have been."...what comes to my mind is fear and paranoia...of
government..."There's nothing wrong with a little healthy
skepticism toward people in power. Those may be *your* IRS files someday."...the AGW deniers/skeptics are taking an awfully big risk...with
the only home we have."I can be convinced by a sound argument.
I'm just waiting for an alarmist to present one.
@Nate – “There's really no place for making unprompted
accusations of racism. When people do it, they're usually
projecting.”OK, we’ll just pretend that all the
prejudices that allowed Nixon to employ the brilliantly cynical “southern
strategy” have all disappeared."Liberty comes to
mind.”If you say so… what comes to my mind is fear and
paranoia (of government involved in anything bigger than putting up a stop
light). "Okay, first tell me how many oceans, rivers, forests,
and fields are in your airtight room. Because it's an analogy,
right?”That’s a fair point but it does suggest there is
a limit to the “self-cleansing” our biosphere can do, especially
when it is getting a sustained and growing dump of CO2 and other pollutants.And I don’t necessarily buy into the Al-Gore-cataclysmic camp, but
the point I’ve made many times on this forum is that the AGW
deniers/skeptics are taking an awfully big risk (assuming either no problem or
no action can fix it) with the only home we have. Reached comment
"Pending a verdict from investigators investigating investigators, it is
abundantly clear that something is awry at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, not least
of which is an apparent failure to understand the basic principles of American
governance. Incompetence may be an explanation, but it is hardly
reassuring."-------------------**And**, I think is
should be noted, this "incompetence" is **after** four years of
on-the-job training.Which leads one to wonder about the claim of
incompetence versus simple corruption and deliberate infractions of the law.
@Tyler D "you sure put me in my place..."There's really
no place for making unprompted accusations of racism. When people do it,
they're usually projecting."...'who is John
Galt'..."It does spoil your theocracy theory, doesn't
it? Perhaps there's something else bringing these people together.
Something that goes to the heart of both libertarianism and Judeo-Christian
values. Liberty comes to mind."...tell me at what point this
'natural gas' starts to become a problem."Okay, first
tell me how many oceans, rivers, forests, and fields are in your airtight room.
Because it's an analogy, right?
I kept reading the word "incompetent". However, I also read the word
"sinister".One word certainly describes this administration.
The jury's out on the other word. Time will tell.
The US media is far to the left. Look at their owners, almost all are Democrats.
Who knew that Obama was Nixons protege. Fast and furious, Benghazi,
AP, IRS. And none of the administration heads knew what was going on? Is this
the government America needs?A couple of them could fix an election.
Tyler: You haven't looked around much I guess. Aside from the fact that we
will have either a democratic or republican president, which by the way should
be a clue as that we are talking about two sides of the same coin, most of state
houses are conservative. However, that being said, if you are so blind that you
can't see that our government doesn't work, is bankrupt, and the
majority of Americans,you accepted, view the politicians that vote for all your
government programs as lower than a skunk's behind, I doubt that anything
said or done will change your view. So, when you talk of the right wing
conspiracy theorists, its not me your talking about. I just look around and I
can see how inefficient, warped, and corrupted it is, a view shared by a
majority of Americans, as ignorant as they sometimes are. Also, if I am an
'extremist', so must be our Founding Fathers, since they had some
pretty harsh things to say about government and the gospel of social justice,
which you most likely ascribe. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and others are
really good company to keep.
@Nate – “Hey, look, everyone! Race is being injected into the
discussion!”Yes Nate, you sure put me in my place…
because we know for a fact that everyone on the far-right is pleased as punch to
have a black man as president. Or is this a secret that we never let out of the
bubble?@Nate - “Ayn Rand was an atheist. But I suppose
coherence wasn't the purpose.”We’re on the same
page here… I’ve always considered the bizarre bedfellows of those
carrying “who is John Galt” signs showing up at the same rallies as
large numbers of the religious right one of the strangest political spectacles
in my lifetime.And by the way, your “other post” comment
about CO was well taken since the carbon monoxide in exhaust fumes will
certainly kill you before the CO2 does (even though CO2 makes up a larger
percentage by volume of exhaust fumes).So how about this analogy
instead – lock yourself in an airtight room for a few hours, breathe
normally, and tell me at what point this “natural gas” starts to
become a problem.
@Tyler D "...let’s just say, ethnically non-traditional."Hey, look, everyone! Race is being injected into the discussion! And look
who's doing it. Always the accuser, and never the accused."Ayn Rand/Religious Right-type theocracy"Now
*there's* a phrase that'll make your head spin. Ayn Rand was an
atheist. But I suppose coherence wasn't the purpose.
@bandersen – “When the house is burning down, why am I an
extremist…?”It’s because where you see a
“house burning down” those of us to the left of you (which I would
call anyone from traditional Republicans to left-wingers), we just see a
democracy in action. Sometimes your guys win and sometimes they
don’t. What you don’t see from the vast majority of non-extremist
mined people is the rage and paranoia every time the other side wins an
election, and especially when the other guy happens to be… let’s
just say, ethnically non-traditional.The far-right used to be the
nutty fringe (nothing personal) but now with talk radio and their own television
network, forgive us if the moderate masses don’t start getting a little
worried when you guys rail on about tyranny and the 2nd Amendment. Should we hold accountable and sometimes even fear the government… of
course. But in today’s multi-national world I fear corporations just as
much if not more, and I fear the well armed people who seem to prefer an Ayn
Rand/Religious Right-type theocracy over our democracy as well.
With regard to KP's tome...in her own eloquent terms...Whatever.BTW:The IRS has never examined a liberal
foundation/organization/person, 501(c)(3) etc.?
Hutterite: I am participating in the process. Why is it that those who want a
society that doesn't require the government to make decisions for them are
equated with someone inside a compound with a ring of explosives around its
perimeter? Why is it that a belief in individual choice is equated with a
barbarian living on a deserted island? When the house is burning down, why am I
an extremist to remind the occupants that a water pistol won't help?
@Craig Clark – “Let’s find the facts first and sort them out
before we scream Watergate II. Some in the GOP were so trigger-happy with the
smell of blood at the Clinton/Lewinsky matter that they went off the deep end.
Indignation is one thing. Hysteria is what happens when rage unbalances
reason.”Perfectly stated!But don’t expect
the Right to treat this as a Sherlock Holmes-like fact finding exercise. Like
Benghazi this will be reported (at least on one channel) in a manner that seeks
to do maximum damage to the president as is clear by some of the rhetorical
flourish in this article.Contrast what we’ll see over the next
few weeks/months with how it would be treated if this happened under Bush. It
will be a clear display of how in-the-tank partisan much of media has become.
I thought Maybe Faux News was going to start reporting the news instead of
"Opinuendo."So what was it they had in common? Oh yeah they
use the word news in their name to fool righties, not hard but effective.
Hemlock,"....Their dilemma is uncovering repeated
misrepresentations, "stylistic" changes, lying and unreported facts from
this administration. If indignation is not bipartisan then liberals are
endorsing deceptive government, a theme they have made central since
Nixon's debacle...."______________________________Let’s find the facts first and sort them out before we scream Watergate
II. Some in the GOP were so trigger-happy with the smell of blood at the
Clinton/Lewinsky matter that they went off the deep end. Indignation is one
thing. Hysteria is what happens when rage unbalances reason.
The mainstream media is only having a lovers quarrel with Mr. Obama. Their
dilemma is uncovering repeated misrepresentations, "stylistic" changes,
lying and unreported facts from this administration. If indignation is not
bipartisan then liberals are endorsing deceptive government, a theme they have
made central since Nixon's debacle. When the government in general and the
IRS in particular lose a basic level of credibility, chaos results. Mr. Obama
advocates a post-partisan era and he can bring this to pass by being a
non-partisan leader in these crises, not a David Axelrod stone wall.
"Is it healthy for a society such as ours to refer to the government as the
'enemy'? It's our government, for which we are responsible, and
in which we can participate."Is it healthy for the government to
be an enemy to liberty? The Declaration of Independence talks about grievances
to governments. I suppose that only applies to other governments?Especially considering recent events, such as the Benghazi scandal (yes, it is
a scandal), the IRS, and now the AP incidents, there is much evidence that the
government is acting as an enemy to the people.By the way,
participating only works if the government cooperates. Most Americans opposed
Obama's healthcare bill. Obama passed it anyway. In fact, he had to buy
politicians' cooperation to get it to pass. Every bit about that bill was
hidden from everyone (even Nancy Pelosi said they had to pass it to find out
what's in it). So much for participation!Obama's idea of
participating in his government is "they can come for the ride, but they
have to sit in back".
The right wing has a common cause with literally no one else. Just look at the
polls and you'll see how little America agrees with them.
This is no “common cause” as Kathleen Parker puts it. For right-wing
groups who promote the myth of the liberal news media, it’s a dilemma.
Political Correctness came about because journalists, politicians, or anybody in
a position of influence stopped telling the truth! When the house is on fire, it
doesn't do much good to express,in a low submissive voice, to a child that
it is time to leave! Where are the voices of warning, the voices of truth, the
accountable voices? Not in a politician's voice, nor from a journalist,
nor from the highest steps of the Washington establishment! The honors of men
are too important to speak truthfully. It's not too late! Anyone out there?
Is it healthy for a society such as ours to refer to the government as the
'enemy'? It's our government, for which we are responsible, and
in which we can participate. Participate, by the way, does not mean standing
around yelling about it. Maybe we should take more time to own and participate
in the process rather than villify it.
It's time for the press corps to wake up and exercise its First Amendment
rights. They've been remarkably submissive toward the Obama
administration.Use it or lose it.