FBI said shooting appeared to be "street violence"
Beverly of Eden, UT -You obviously have no clue what the 2nd amendment exists
for. It is not a free for all for Bubba and his boys to play with their guns. It
was put in place so that the people would always have the power over the
government. It is our final option if the government no longer works for the
people but instead tries to CONTROL the people. The 2nd Amendment is to ensure
that America remains in the hands of the people. Once it is gone all other
liberties we live by will follow. It will not happen over night. It will be like
boiling a frog by slowly increasing the heat so it does feel the danger and jump
out. By then it will be too late. Without the 2nd Amendment America will cease
The second amendment is an insurance policy. We will not need our guns until we
don't have them. Over 95% of gun crime is committed with hand guns yet the
politicians only go after automatic weapons and high capacity magazines.Why?These are the only weapons that could turn back a
tyrannical government.Very telling...
No fit in SG:"So what. There was another tragedy due to gun violence?
Is this the environment you want you children and grandchildren to live
in?"First of all this tragedy was not due to "gun
violence". It was due to violence period. We live in the most mentally ill
and violent society in recorded history. Is that all because of guns? Or is it
because of media promoting and bombarding people with violent images in the
news, movies, video games, etc. There has been plenty of research to show that
increased exposure to violence will increase violent behavior. So do we now say
no more 1st amendment rights either? After all the press shouldn't be
allowed to show any more graphic images or violence right? Mentally ill people
in an already violent society is disastrous with or without guns (see Boston
bombings). To answer your question: no I don't want my children to live in
a violent mentally ill society but neither do I want them to be unable to
protect themselves from it. Mental illness and violence are the root of these
tragedies, and gun control is like applying a bandaid to a gaping wound.
It sounds like these hooligans were determined to hurt some parade goers.If guns didn't exist what would have prevented them from using a
bomb or even a car?
This incident is an indication that New Orleans has violent people they need to
deal with.The fact this happened is not a reason to take gun rights
mentioned in our constitution from law abiding people.
@RickExcept they are used by more than police and military. They are used
by drug cartels, gangs, and other unlawful people in our society. Any regulation
you put on law abiding citizens puts them at a disadvantage to terrorists and
criminals who do and will continue to possess assault weapons. In addition see
my post above. A free state militia or free citizens should be able to arm
themselves against a tyrannical government which would assuradly have assault
weapons. I see your point of view, I really do, and no one including me wants to
see people abuse this right by taking innocent lives. But taking weapons away
from law abiding citizens trying to protect themselves is not the answer.
The supposed need for all of our nation to be armed....The romanticization
of packing a gun around....People who do not have the intellect or mental
capacity owning and using their gun....This is the road we want to go
down?Is this de-sensitivation to tragedy something we want to develop due
to the NRA telling everyone that these things will happen? No other laws
should be made concerning gun/weapon ownership?So what. There was another
tragedy due to gun violence? Is this the environment you want you
children and grandchildren to live in?A new sadness returns with this new
gun related incident.
How about keeping military weapons that should and don't have any other
reasonable purpose out of gun stores and gun shows. Assault weapons with 20 or
40 shot clips have no acceptable purpose outside of military or police use. I do
however propose that if a gun is used in the conduct of a crime, an automatic 25
year sentence be added, and if someone is killed then the death penalty is
automatically on the table.
I also recognize there are many misquotes from our forefathers about the 2nd
amendment but these two are factual and accurately attributed. James Madison
from Federalist No. 46, and George Mason from Virginia's US Constitution
Ratification Ceremony (1788).
"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the
people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments,
to which the people are attached and by which the militia officers are
appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more
insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.
Notwithstanding the military establishments of the several kingdoms of Europe,
which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are
afraid to trust the people with arms."- James Madison "[W]hen the
resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British
Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to
disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them;
but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink
gradually. . . ." George MasonUsually our gun control arguments
miss the point by debating public safety. Our fore fathers established the
2ndamendment first and foremost to protect free citizens from tyranny. To those
saying this is antiquated I ask: is it possible for your government today to
ever seek control over you?
Dear Beverly, I am not sure what world you are living in? Three
women were just saved from slavery in Ohio.Women still make less income
then men do.Alcohol is still killing tens of thousands every year and
destroying the lives of millions.And as this article says, we still have
outlaws shooting up the towns and hurting innocent citizens. I hope your
argument works if you are ever faced with a home invasion.Just tell them
"we are to civilized to need protection."I am sure it will work.
first of all this is sickening and tragic. What in the world has happened to
society in the United States? Life seems to have no meaning anymore to an ever
evil and ugly society. I have to say that this underscores ...even more so ...
the desire for a concealed weapon for the protection of myself and family
members. Obviously the police can't protect the public anymore and I'm
not going to accept the fact that I can't take my kids and grandkids to a
parade or a mall or any public place. These shooters are not law obeying
citizens who purchase guns through legal and proper means and it is up to each
family to protect their own.
To Fred 44,The second amendment does provide us with the RIGHT to own any
and all guns we wish. The amendment does not sa shall own 1 or 2 guns or specify
the type. There have been rules set forth to not allow widespread ownership of
automatic guns, but the second amendment does not discuss that. Also, your
facts are incorrect. We have a marked decrease of gun killings and violence in
this country in spite of the fact that gun ownership is higher than it has ever
been.You want to have a civil discussion on the issue. How can that
happen when one side does not know or respect the FACTS but wants to legislate
based on "feelings'? Our society is filled with individuals who choose
not to follow the laws set forth. That will never change. Why attempt to take
away rights from law abiding citizens only to make you feel better about doing
something that honestly makes no difference to criminals? i.e. magazine clip
sizes,gun ownership, etc?
Enough already. People argue about the protection of the 2nd amendment as if it
is so sacred that laws cannot be passed in order to protect modern day citizens.
Why can't we pass reasonable gun control laws that limit or eliminate hand
guns and assault weapons. Yes, I'm suggesting taking your precious hand
guns out of your, "cold, dead hands..." If people want to have rifles
to go and shoot their deer every year, great. Enjoy it. But what is wrong with
the elimination of hand guns that can be concealed?And don't
give me the protection argument. That is a joke as most of you big talkers who
say that you need a gun to protect your family would cower at the thought of
actually shooting another person.Furthermore, isn't is also
time to admit that the NRA lead marketing plan of "guns don't kill
people" is one of the most misleading marketing campaigns to which we have
ever been subject?
I'm sorry, Beverly, but I now have this picture in my mind of someone
shooting someone else with seafood. Hey, maybe guns wouldn't be so
dangerous then, LOL!I do agree with the points you make. I think
the "crowded into large cities" is part of the problem. People are
feeling overwhelmed and don't know how to deal with it at times.
@ Fred and others- You can have your own opinions, but the facts prove you
wrong.From the recent federal Bureau of Justice Statistics report
"Firearm Violence 1993-2013" (not something the NRA did!) the following
quotes are important to consider:"Firearm-related homicides
declined 39%, from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011.""In
2010, the rate of firearm homicide for blacks was 14.6 per 100,000, compared to
1.9 for whites, 2.7 for American Indians and Alaska Natives, and 1.0 for Asians
and Pacific Islanders" I cite this latter BJS statement not to
imply there is a racial causation factor, but to highlight the fact that there
is a huge difference in correlation with different races. Others can try to
figure out if it is related to differences in family structure, education,
living environment, entertainment choices, incarceration rates, or even
political beliefs. Clearly, New Orleans is a complex cesspool, and
has lots of problems to fix, most of which existed before Katrina, and the
violence there is only part of the problem."The only thing that
stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
The shooting was obviously perpetrated by criminals, not law abiding citizens.
Criminals will always have guns. How can we defend against them?
The Second Amendment was a good idea when our Country had mussel loaders and
over 50% of our citizens living on farms and ranches. Now, with 310 million
people and less than 2% residing on farms and ranches, armed with AK-47s, and
crowded into large cities, the Second Amendment - like slavery, women's
right, and prohibition - is outdated.
I agree with many of you. The guns are not the problem. The problem is the
heart of the people who are using the guns. Change the heart of the people
using the guns and you solve the problem of gun violence. I like the point made
earlier that the people using the guns could have been criminals who could not
have purchased a gun legally. Change the heart of the person and you solve the
problem. As a society we need to stop the hate, and start truly loving each
other. This includes all the attorneys that want many of us to sue the life out
of each other. Or again maybe it is the people who are so anxious to keep the
attorneys in business. Stop the hate. I know that I deviated from the gun
argument. Thank you for permitting me to deviate.
Until you start REALLY punishing criminals it won't matter whether
it's gun, pressure cookers or fertilizer. You have to treat the source, not
the tool to get results.
HS fan, What kind of fact is that? 5 times more likely than what? More
likely than a meteor killing you?If anyone is serious about a
discussion, then don't run from the facts if they don't support your
view. Our leadership in government at all levels are a poor example of how
civilization needs to work in that regard. We are in a decline just as the
Romans, Turks, Mongols, chins, etc. We are too lazy, irrational and
political and we won't be the "leader of the free world" in the
next century unless we as a people change and hold our government responsible as
well. ...now, getting off the soap box.
When they catch the assassins, they will go to a prison tax payers spent tens of
millions on to build and operate and will live a life of relative ease. Human rights activists always get their way.
For everyone on either side of the gun control issue: It's too late to do
anything about it. That bullet has already been fired, or in other metephors,
that fire engine has already left the station; that water is under the bridge;
that train has left the station; that aircraft is "wheels up" in the
@Fred44According to FBI statistics, gun violence has been going down
since 2006. I know you don't believe me, so go look it up.
Lets see if you are opposed to the NRA view of guns and their view of the second
amendment you are anti-American. But its only the democrats and liberals that
call people anti-American.Lets use the NRA argument that more guns =
less gun violence. So How does the NRA explain that Americans own more weapons
than anytime in the history of the country and yet gun violence is going up not
down. It would be nice if we could have a reasonable discussion on
guns and the second amendment and maybe work toward solutions that were good
for America. The second amendment should be protected, but the second amendment
does not guarantee you the right to own any and all guns you choose. Have we become a country where there is no respect for differing viewpoints
and no willingness to find common ground that will be best for the country?
@HutteriteThe problem isn't the NRA. New Orleans is a VIOLENT
city. So is Chicago. So is Detroit. So is Philly. So is D.C. Do you see any
trend here? I'll give you a hint: The last GOP mayor of Philly was in
1952. The last GOP mayor of Chicago was in 1931. The last GOP mayor in Detroit
was in 1962. The last GOP mayor of New Orleans was in 1872. Don't look to the NRA as a scapegoat. The NRA is about personal
responsibility and law. If you want to change gun violence in America's
cities, think about changing the leadership.
Americans and guns=bloodshed and tradegy. The only control we have is not to
buy into the fear the NRA and gun rights groups want us to embrace. It's a
fact that if you own a gun it's 5 times more likely to be used on you or a
loved one in your house. This tradegy is another example of what's wrong
in America but make no mistake another law or more guns would have not stopped
Re: "Nothing the Senate has proposed is unconstitutional."Yeah, yeah. I know that's the leftist party line. But, we're just
going to have to agree to disagree on that.I know anti-American,
anti-gun liberals have concocted a semantic ruse, converting the plain meaning
of "shall not be infringed" into liberal newspeak as, "shall be
infringed." But the Supreme Court has yet to uphold such nonsense. And, it
specifically overturned similarly facile liberal dogma in the McDonald-Heller
line of cases.Real people wouldn't bet the farm that the
Supreme Court would uphold ANY of the Senate's current people-control
measures, but a beyond-silly "assault weapons" ban, or a magazine size
limit are almost certain to be overturned.Maybe desperate,
doctrinaire liberals would, but not real people.
Re: Hutterite"The NRA always gets its' way." Any stats on how many violent shootings are done by members of the NRA?
I'd wager my paycheck the instigators of this shooting voted early and
often for Obama.
Actually, most of the shootings in New Orleans have been by criminals, legally
unable to own a gun. More legislation would not prevent street crime like this.
Look at Washington DC, Chicago, LA and every other city with strict gun laws...
You can not dictate morals or a conscience. More over, Laws only seem to apply
to the law abiding. Those who break the law will continue to shoot up and blow
up crowds, unless there is someone in the crowd that can stop them, like police,
security guards, military or law abiding citizens with a weapon. Today is
Mothers Day!Not a holiday for these criminals, they don't even have
respect for their own. Instead of being with their mother they were
shooting up a parade. No love, No conscience. Barely human!
After going shooting with family, I was thinking I may actually want a gun
someday. I'm not into hunting for sport but shooting at targets was a hoot
of fun.Not much later, children were killed in Connecticut.Then I was thinking "Man, maybe I might want a gun for protection. I
don't really fear for my own life. I've always figured that as long as
I know I'm living the way God wants me to, that's all I need to
concern myself with. But now... maybe for the sake of protecting my family this
may be more important than I thought."Today another shooting,
and I know that more will happen this year. More will happen next year.I believe that young men are less grounded than every before. I believe that
the decay of the family and other trends in our society today will only
accelerate this. Aside from the cause, I believe the rate of these horrible
crimes will likely increase and that each day more people choose to be
"without civilization" as it is worded in the Book of Moroni.Now: The decision is made. I'm getting a gun.
"The NRA always gets its way" What the heck does that even mean? The NRA
does not support random shootings and senseless death and injuries. Really?
There are people who actually believe that? The NRA is about protecting a right
given to law-abiding citizens who deserve to keep that right. 99% of all gun
users are law-abiding and will fight to keep that right. The few out there that
behave in an evil way seem to be getting all the press lately. Be thankful
there is a group who is fighting for one of your many rights and freedoms. There
may be some out there who can't believe this, but if the 2nd Amendment goes
down, the 1st and 4th will be next and our lives will be forever changed in a
way you wouldn't believe possible. That's not conspiracy talk either.
Just read the history books and see for yourself. It's happened before.
@procuradorfiscalNothing the Senate has proposed is unconstitutional.
That's just a fact based on supreme court rulings and briefs that note that
the 2nd Amendment does not mean there can't be regulation on firearms. Just
because you don't like something doesn't make it unconstitutional.
Re: "The NRA . . . .[will] be able to put a positive spin on this one,
too."Well, I think we can all be glad there was no loss of life,
the NRA included.But, if anti-American, anti-gun liberals
disingenuously suggest that any of their current crop of unconstitutional,
people-control proposals could have prevented or even have had the slightest
effect on this near-disaster . . . well, let's be polite -- we can safely
The NRA always gets its' way. They'll be able to put a positive spin
on this one, too.