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Comments about ‘My view: Facts not told in today's gun debate’

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Published: Friday, May 10 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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10CC
Bountiful, UT

Here are some facts I can interject into the discussion:

I have a co-worker who is a gun "advocate", who has told us all he suffers from Aspergers syndrome, has an AR-15, likes to play around with explosives, and is a strong, strong believer in an array of conspiracy theories (such as jet contrails emitting mind control chemicals) and actively is recruiting coworkers to arms in an inevitable civil uprising against the Obama regime he claims will happen within two years.

He also admits to being disgruntled, (delusionally) thinks he should be leading the department, and because the word got around that he wears a concealed weapon, has a very strong dampening effect on any discussions where he has an opinion.

This is all quite legal, but because he's armed and carrying he's gone from being just an "interesting" co-worker to being pretty disruptive just because everyone will do and say whatever they need to to make sure he doesn't snap. Being an ex-Marine deployed in Iraq doesn't help things.

What are the rights of everyone else in this situation? We should get guns, too?

Hamath
Omaha, NE

Are any "gun debate" issues going to matter?

Bad Guy path to guns
1) Buy a 3D printer.
2) Download Template for Gun and bullets.
3) Print Gun and Bullets.
4) Print more guns and bullets to make $ to recoup cost for #1.
5) Go use 3D printed gun in some crime.
6) Laugh at gun debate that will still be going on that like many debate going on right now will change fast when some new technology changes things.

U.S. gov't will try to restrict 3D printers next. They will become so small that smuggling them inside the US will become the next big thing and easy thing to do. We have to realize something that we should have long ago. If bad guys want to do things, they are going to be able to find ways to do it. (Suggested reading "The Problem of Cell 13"). We need to be ready and have a citizenship ready to stop them.

one old man
Ogden, UT

10CC, unfortunately most of us can probably identify one or two acquaintances very much like the one you describe.

Have you gone to talk with anyone in law enforcement? If not -- DO IT!

But you will probably get the same reply I've received a couple of times: "Is he a felon? No? Well, sorry, there's nothing we can do."

Badgerbadger
Murray, UT

Great article, exposing the gun control advocates for what they really are.

Sadly, with Senator Feinstein's attitude, that veterans are all mentally ill, we can see why we will never make any progress on PROPERLY identifying those with REAL MENTAL ILLNESS, that would make it so they shouldn't have guns. It would just be another window for the abuse of power.

But if democrats think that they, themselves, are not safe to own firearms, they are free to give them up, even sell them for money. What a great country!!!!

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

The Manchin-Toomey bill says "Congress supports and reaffirms the existing prohibition on a national firearms registry.” And it also says: “Nothing in this title, or any amendment made by this title, shall be construed to…allow the establishment, directly or indirectly, of a Federal firearms registry.” So just how does expanded background checks via the Toomey-Manchin bill create a national registery?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Excellent article! But don't pay any attention to the facts here, some people don't care about facts, they only want to advance their agendas and facts just get in their way.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

10cc just perfectly described the atmosphere that the NRA wants to create. Because the only alternative folks like 10cc have, is to arm themselves. And if you're the NRA, you know what that means!!! More $$$

Asking the NRA for solutions is like asking Pizza Hut for a solution to our nation's obesity problem. Of course they're going to say, "Eat more pizza!"

But that doesn't mean it will help anything. Likewise, conducting an arms race within our own society will not have a positive effect on our own society.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Another ignored fact is that what we've done so far isn't working. let's try something else, even if it's just for giggles, and see what happens.

DN Subscriber 2
SLC, UT

Excellent op-ed by Allan South! SOlid facts, well presented!

@ 10cc- Your co-worker is a mental health issue, not a gun issue. If his condition is not serious enough to get him committed, then work on changing the mental health laws. Yes, he would scare me too, but even crazy people have rights, so if unwilling to involuntarily commit him, then he is a free man to won guns.... and to vote!

@Pragmatist- Manchin-Toomey had the prohibition against keeping the records as registration, but the problem is that it put in place the universal data collection that actually collects everything to create universal registration of all guns and gun owners. Given the untrustworthiness of the Obama Justice Department, or the opportunity for sneaky Congressional trickery to delete the prohibition, merely having the machinery in place is an unacceptable step down that slippery slope.

When the leftist gun-grabbers tell you they want registration and even confiscation, believe them! And, then oppose every incremental step they demand that will get them closer to their goals.

Remember, courts ruled that drug dealers did not have to register illegal drugs, so criminals will NOT register their illegal guns?

cjb
Bountiful, UT

I recently heard on the radio the a 16 year old man's wife was being threatened. So he went to the gun store to buy a pistol for his wife. It was then he found out that he was not legally able to buy a gun. when he was a teenager he had gotten into a fight with his brother. Sommeone had called the police they came and he was arrested and charged with a violent offense. That has happened decades ago. but because of this offense he was denied.

Not only that he was charged and convicted of trying to buy a gun as a person who was ineligible. when he tried to explain he didn't know he was ineligible because this was a minor thing that happened so long ago. the prosecutor and the judge said that he should have known.

The current background system does not deserve to be expanded. it needs to be fixed first. it is being used as a tool to deny good people there right to have a gun.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

"Proposed legislation would not have prevented any of the incidents at the forefront of current controversy, and it would effectively create a registration database."

First off... we have 30,000 gun deaths a year. Do the 29,974 non-Newtown deaths not matter? Besides, a bunch of kids ran away from the shooter when he was reloading and the Tuscon shooter was stopped when he had to reload. Seeing as they both had the "largest capacity clip legally available" it is safe to assume that had high capacity magazines been banned they would've been using the smaller ones and more people would be alive. So this first point isn't even correct anyway.

Secondly, the provision bans the creation of such a database (makes it a felony) and merely makes the current background check system apply to more instances of purchases.

It'd be nice in an article about "facts" if the writer would actually use facts.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

And then the rest of this just goes into lunatic conspiracy theories. I swear the fastest way to make people actually believe confiscation might be a good idea is to show them the crazy stuff some gun owners believe.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

cjb:

Based on what I'm experiencing, I think the background check needs to include a full psychological examination. People who are delusional and paranoid probably should not be allowed to have guns, let alone bring concealed weapons to work.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Lets follow the "facts" and logic here.

1) The proposed system would be "expensive, unmanageable and unenforceable, affecting only law-abiding citizens"

2) That same expensive, unusable system caught about 76,000 transactions...... seems kind of usable... and already working in some places... but lets not use it because those people were only prevented, not arrested.... ok.

3) "The stated goal of some of those leading the charge for registration is to limit firearms and to prevent further transfer, thereby eventually doing away with private ownership.... and there are those who state they believe they have been probed by aliens too....but we don't base policy on that, now do we.

4) "Historically, registration is a precursor to confiscation. It began that way in Australia, England, Uganda, pre-World War II Germany" ummm... no one is registering anything. Just like having back ground checks for people who work in schools is "registering" them.

5) "Leading registration proponents are often hypocritical, possessing personal defense firearms themselves" - which a sane person would conclude they are not anti gun... just saying.

The rest just gets odd. What percentage of gun owners have had actually to draw in self defense... it just get sillier.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

10CC
Bountiful, UT
cjb:

Based on what I'm experiencing, I think the background check needs to include a full psychological examination. People who are delusional and paranoid probably should not be allowed to have guns, let alone bring concealed weapons to work.

11:28 a.m. May 10, 2013

===========

It's funny --

I'm a veteran, and work at Hill AFB.

We have all sorts of weapons herer on base,
but they are ALWAYS under lock and key in the armory.
We ALWAYS had to take and pass weapons trainging and certifications,
We ALL had to under-go back ground checks and mental evaluations,
and
NO weapons - Conceled weapons carry permit or not -- are allowwed on base.

A profession ALL about weapons, weaponry, and weapon systems, and we have the most restrictions on weapons in the entire United States of America.
GO Figure!

10CC
Bountiful, UT

DN Subscriber 2:

You're saying we need to change the mental health commitment laws to make people more easily committable? There is no in-between status? Do we have enough space at the state hospital to commit all the borderline wackos that may (or may not) go postal? That would cost tax money.

We can have people's drivers licenses suspended if they demonstrate a danger in driving a car, but there's no way to do that if somebody is a borderline threat with guns. Nice. My mother would not be allowed to drive a semi truck, I'm sure. She can barely navigate the streets on her own without getting on the freeway. But she's be perfectly legal to walk around with an AR-15.

Either somebody is a full-blown danger to themselves or others, or they're perfectly fine carrying concealed weapons just about anywhere they want. Why in the world are we wasting money on psychological checks for police officers? For that matter, why do we even spend money for training or firearms certification for police officers?

Aren't these requirements just a violation of their individual 2nd Amendment rights?

one old man
Ogden, UT

Yes, MM, I agree: "Excellent article! But don't pay any attention to the facts here, some people don't care about facts, they only want to advance their agendas and facts just get in their way."

The NRA and their supporters never were much for factual information, were they?

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

DNSuuscriber..Given the untrustworthiness of the Obama Justice Department, or the opportunity for sneaky Congressional trickery to delete the prohibition, merely having the machinery in place is an unacceptable step down that slippery slope. Even though the law requires that the information be destroyed within 24 hours..it's still that Obama, and pure, unadulterated, pristine, paranoia.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Yes one old man, fact have obviously confused you. If guns were used in performing abortion, liberals would suddenly become the most staunch supporters of the second amendment and the NRA would not be needed!

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Senator Feinstein DID NOT say all vets are mentally ill accoding to Snopes.

Laws never prevent ALL crime, yet we still feel it useful to enact them in an attempt to deter some crime.

Republicans and the NRA work to weaken existing gun laws and make enforcement more difficult, such as blocking the appointment of a Director of the ATF--going on 7 yrs.now.

The background check bill specifically STRENGTHENED laws prohibiting the creation of a national registry.

Some think tanks and conspiracy groups perpetuate anarchy and treason as the way to resolve problems.

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