Comments about ‘Letters: Law plunders the people’

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Published: Thursday, May 2 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Centerville, UT

By Bastiat's definition, I guess all forms of taxation are legal plunder. Had an individual boarded a ship in 1790 and demanded payment of a tariff upon threat that the ship's goods would be impounded, the individual would have been guilty of a crime. But Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the Constitution gives Congress the power to imposes taxes and tariffs. So, apparently, Bastiat disagreed with the drafters of the Constitution.

Far East USA, SC

"I oppose this act because it would be considered a crime"

Ah, So now raising taxes is a crime?

House vote - 257 Representatives voting in favor and 167 voting against
Senate vote - 89 Senators voting in favor and 8 voting against

Looks like most of our congress should be in jail (according to you). Or is it just Obama?

Do you really hold that it is a crime "if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime."

So much for school taxes for those without children.
So much for a Tax for roads for those without a car.
So much for (add yours here) The list could go on and on.

Red Headed Stranger
Billy Bobs, TX

My wife grew up in a socialist European country. She was a pretty tepid political moderate until one summer day. She called and asked if I could get out of work a couple of hours early so we could go swimming at the YMCA with our son. I said I couldn't, I had to work. She went anyway. While in the pool, she overheard one woman (whose male companion was also in the pool) say to another "Well, I could work, but then I would lose my welfare check". She became a hardcore conservative from that second.

You get what you subsidize. If the government subsidizes people not working we should expect people not to work. I seem to remember comments about the "dangers of the dole".

My wife chose to go back to school to become an engineer. She teaches Math and takes Chemistry during the day and Physics at night. I go to pick her up at 10:00 pm at the college, after I have worked at my job. We are sacrificing fun and leisure for our financial future. But will it be worth it after the extra taxes we will have to pay?

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

"My wife chose to go back to school to become an engineer. She teaches Math and takes Chemistry during the day and Physics at night. I go to pick her up at 10:00 pm at the college, after I have worked at my job. We are sacrificing fun and leisure for our financial future."

....so what happened to that son you couldn't spend time with?

Pathetic to allow a single overheard conversation convince you that you should sacrifice your life in pursuit of financial gain.

I overheard a banker in the sauna talking about responsibility one day...

Red Headed Stranger
Billy Bobs, TX

I cannot comment or respond while I work, so allow me to proactively respond to some of the highly predictable comments that will surely come:

- I have nothing against immigrants. I was twice an immigrant to Europe, (not counting mission) I am married to an immigrant and 75% of my work team are immigrants - they are intelligent, hard-working people. If anything we do not allow enough immigrants in. What I do not like are benefits (food stamps, extra school programs, welfare) that are given to immigrants. Don't break the law, pay your own way, and we're good.

- Like Milton Friedman, I am not against government spending per se, as long as it is as close to the local level as possible. Utahns should not pay for Texas highways, and Texans shouldn't pay for Utah schools.

- I am not against public schooling or even increased spending for schooling per se, but schools have morphed into social service centers rather than places of learning. More money will not mean better learning under this model.

- The taxpayer should not bail out corporations.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Sooooo... I'm confused...

This letter writer would rather attack fellow Americans? Saying that those earning less need to be "plundered?"

What about folks like Mitt Romney and Corporations like GE who pay near zero?

What about EXXON mobile which is STILL being subsidized despite making record profits into the billions?

I guess it's just easier to attack the poor and middle class than to advocate big corp and richies to pay their fair shares. While the rest of us have struggled the last few years they have flourished.

Red Headed Stranger
Billy Bobs, TX

Mr. Heretic

My wife was a stay-at-home mom until our son went to school. She doesn't work or go to school during the summers. The pool conversation didn't affect her decision to go to school, rather it affected her attitude towards the welfare state. Taking money from one person to give to another under threat of prison and house confiscation is wrong. She saw the damage the welfare state did to her home country which is perennially broke.

We don't have a babysitter, or leave him alone. My wife doesn't teach full time. She picks him up from school. He is either with one of us, or at school. He is getting straight A's, and talks about physics. He asked me last week if when matter is converted to energy if it loses information. After my answer, he said, "well, that wasn't how you explained relativity to me. You said Einstein taught. . ." In fact Mr. Heretic, at age 11 I think he is doing pretty well.

The three of us do everything together. Grocery shop, read, movies, my wife's charity work, field trips, lunch, . .

Springville, UT

Poor sad multi millionaires. Its so terrible for them that a temporary tax cut expired and now they have to pay taxes at the same levels that they did under Clinton. How can they possibly survive?

I think we should start a new political party comprised mainly of poor and middle class people who sre dedicated to the sole purpose of protecting tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires. Oh wait...

Provo, UT

Although I consider myself to be fairly conservative, my patience is wearing thin when it comes to the whining about how terrible multi-millionaires and billions have it. The rich seem very capable of taking care of themselves. I'm not a socialist, but I do agree with Obamaa in the need to "spread the wealth around." CEOs shouldn't be making hundreds of times more than their average employee. In a perfect world, they wouldn't.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

What a silly letter. Taxation is not plunder.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

This letter only makes sense to me when I remember that when conservatives use the term “the people” they really mean “the business people”.

Far East USA, SC

"We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy. [...] Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?"

- Ronald Reagan

Do you also "oppose this act because it would be considered a crime?"

Criminal? I think not. I doubt you do either

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

More silliness from the far right.

Now all of a sudden taxation is "plunder?"

What do you nutcakes want? No taxes at all? Go live in Afghanistan then. Sheesh

Salt Lake City, UT

I would voluntarily pay more taxes if it were an offset of the national debt. Unfortunately, there is little likelihood that would happen. Politicians have never seen someone else's dollar they didn't want to spend.

conservative scientist
Lindon, UT

All should read "The Proper Role of government" written by Ezra Taft Benson when he was both a cabinet member and a member of the LDS quorum of the twelve apostles. To be short, his essay is in harmony with the letter writer's opinion. I can not legally "take" half of my neighbor's cows, just because my neighbor owns 10 and I own none. It is also not just to ask the sheriff (ie. the law of the land, congress, etc) to take half of my neighbors cows and "redistribute" them to me. An essential element of freedom is the right to own individual property.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

One post cited Article 1, Section 8, but that poster did not tell us that Congress has power to tax us ONLY for the enumerated duties listed in that one-sentence Section. We gave power to Congress to tax us, but we did not give them unlimited power to tax us. We listed the duties (services) that we expect the Federal Government to perform. Those duties are very limited. All other duties (services) we reserved for the States or for ourselves (Amendment 10).

Transferring wealth is not an authorized duty of the Federal Government. Taxing one person at a higher rate is not authorized by the Constitution. Those who twist the Supreme Law of the Land to include legislation from the bench need to rethink the reason that we limit government. They need to rethink the word "freedom". They need to rethink what it means to have agency and responsibility.

The Government is not our nanny. We are responsible to our Creator to use our lives productively and to take care of our own responsibilities without crying to government to feed us, to clothe us, to house us.

We are responsible.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Ezra Taft Benson was an extreme conservative influenced by the Cold War and Cleon Skousen.

I have a hard time believing that modern-day prophets like President Monson would advocate raising the taxes on the poor, cutting food stamps, cutting medicine for cancer patients, and food on wheels so that folks like Mitt Romney can still pay near zero on their taxes. Or so GE can pay zero. Or so EXXON Mobile can receive their subsidies.

In fact, President Kimball was pretty clear in his view AGAINST our defense spending. All should read, "The False Gods we Worship."

"We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we become antienemy instead of pro-kingdom of God"

Even when the army itself states that they don't want certain tanks, repubs say YES and stuff them down their throats.

What we need to do is listen to a prophet's voice. Listen to the savior. STOP WORSHIPING MONEY!

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

@ 4601

Apparently you missed Clinton's Presidency. He actually had a surplus. Then along came the GOP's champion, George W. Bush. And well... Our debt is now in the trillions.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Bastiat's philosophy is a giggle. Equating piracy with constitutional, representative taxation "to promote the general welfare"? Not exactly profound thinking.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

We know from you saying that 49% is a majority that you have a problem with math.

You are further showing your math problems by claiming Clinton had a surplus. Clinton never had a surplus - he was still borrowing from Social Security to meet general government expenditures. Gross federal debt INCREASED every year during the clinton administration.

Yeah, after slick willy came bush, then BO. BO's deficits are LARGER than bush's. Gross federal bdet increased more in 38 months under BO than it did in 96 months under bush. Do you REALLY want to compare?

And you are really showing gullibility by claiming anyone has been proposing raising taxes on the poor so wealthy folk have to pay less. the bush tax cuts reduced marginal rates for the middle and lower class more than the wealthy. but you've never been one to let the truth interfere with your ideaology.

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