Public transport is expensive. It can be done to an excess if we are not
careful. It is a public service provided by the government that brings about
much good. It allows many people to become self-reliant and more independent.
They can travel to and keep jobs that otherwise might not be able to them. In
many areas government has stepped far out of the bounds of its intended purpose.
Spending is wildly irresponsible, inefficient and wasteful. We are spending our
grand children's money right now. But this is an example of it helping
those who need it and something that will benefit.
Procura, you have no idea how the tax structure works for UTA do you? They get
their money from sales tax but only within the counties that they operate. So
the rest of the state doesn't really pay for a service that they cannot
use. I also have no idea why you harbor such vehement hatred of the East-Bench
crowd, which btw isn't all that well served by light rail or buses. Now
that the whining is dealt with let me ask what other system of transportation
would you use? Would you advocate more buses clogging the roads? Would you
advocate everyone driving? Bike sharing? Flight suits? Or instant teleportation?
procuradorfiscalTooele, UT 1. re-read my post -- I used UTA,
not just TRAX, for my daily ridership of mass transit numbers.2.
You've obviously never traveled or lived outside of the little Utah bubble.
Mass transit is THE answer for the problems of large congested metropolitan
areas. 3. I know your type - you don't like change of any sort
[the fundamental attribute of all conservatives] and are therefore 100% reactive
to problems [backward thinking] rather than being pro-active [forward thinking]
like we who are progressives.4. For those of us who use it, and the
Foreiners and Tourist who rely and depend on it for the 3-4 days they are here
-- Mass transit is GOOD.5. Drive your car, pay your gas and your
parking, but just be sure to Thank those of us making it BETTER and Easier
for you while your at it. [ingrate]
Re: "You do not speak for 3 million in this State."But
liberal communitarian socialists daily undertake to do so. Got any statistics
supporting your position as spokesman for us?Your TRAX statistic is
certainly inflated by about half, and that doesn't even take into account
that "ridership" is calculated using fares paid, double-counting
commuters. Nor do we know how the number of non-paying riders was estimated. At
best, though, you're talking not more than 30,000 Utahns using TRAX.
Probably a LOT less.One thing we do know for sure -- TRAX
doesn't, never will, pay for itself.Liberals force the paying
on us -- 3 million [it's actually 2.8M, but OK, we'll round to 3M]
Utahns, and 316 million Americans, almost none of whom will ever set foot on
TRAX.Your unsupported, counterintuitive statement that visitors to
Utah use buses and trains to get around, besides being wildly unlikely,
demonstrates a rigid, communitarian political bias, as well.Don't you find it requires a little chutzpah to deem yourself
procuradorfiscalTooele, UTRe: "Whose values are skewed now. . .
."Well, I'll let real people be the judge of that.My point is, has always been, that light rail is an expensive, dangerous,
unneeded, unwanted attempt to impose state-owned, communal transport on people
who don't want it and are unlikely to ever use it in numbers sufficient to
pay for itself. ============= Did you ever take ONE
second to try putting yourself in someone else's shoes?You do
not speak for 3 million in this State.You have ONE opinion, and can only
speak for yourself.Nearly 100,000 people ride UTA everyDAY.3.8
Million people visit Utah annually, and guess what ... MOST use an airplane to
get here [mass transit], and they rely on Buses and Trains to get around once
get here.But living in Tooele, YOU don't need it, so
it's not necessary.I doubt most people will appreciate an
instant 27% increase on our already over burdened freeways.But this
is all about YOU, isn't it?
Re: "Whose values are skewed now. . . ."Well, I'll let
real people be the judge of that.My point is, has always been, that
light rail is an expensive, dangerous, unneeded, unwanted attempt to impose
state-owned, communal transport on people who don't want it and are
unlikely to ever use it in numbers sufficient to pay for itself. So, the rest of
us -- including most of America, and the 95% of the state who will be
geographically excluded from using it -- are press-ganged into subsidizing
it.In the crowded areas of the state, where communal transport may
be approaching necessity status, there are better, cheaper, more flexible ways
to accomplish it, without flushing untold millions down that shining liberal
toilet of communal light rail.And, when tax-subsidized, communal
transport is implemented, the rich, elite, already overserved areas of the
state, should be the very LAST to benefit from enforced public largesse.Let the East Bench buy its own shiny new toy train, if it wants one so
Howard Beal:You can't be serious. Let's leave Karl Marx
back in the 19th century and come back to reality. To call the East side the
burgeoise and the West the proletariat is absurd.
I work by the airport and meet lots of people who fly through Salt Lake City.
They're excited about the new TRAX line that goes directly from the airport
to downtown, since it gives them a chance to see Temple Square, the Energy
Solutions Arena, along with he neighboring areas. If you feel the
TRAX line from the airport to downtown was a bad idea, what would you tell these
people?"Yes, we could have build a TRAX line to downtown, but
hey, Sandy City is just as nice."
Hamath:The east side of Salt Lake Valley (and Utah Valley as well)
is generally wealthier. The rich like the good views of the valley. In essence
bourgeoise like to look down on the proletariat...
Interestingly enough, most major cities in the US then to have west side biases
not east side ones. Because the east side was populated first (migration from
the east coast to the west coast) and the west side later (as the east side
becomes older and falls into disarray) leading west sides across the nation to
usually be wealthier and richer. We have that here in Omaha and it's true
in many other cities that I've been in.
The "Trax Logic" letter does bring out just one of many of assumptions
and stereotypes that some East-siders have about the West side. Some West-siders
likely have assumptions about the East side as well. In actuality there are all
kinds of neighborhoods and people in both areas. UTA probably took in
consideration the number of users of public transportation and the large
population growth that has occurred on the west side when making their decision.
Procura seems to be confused. Many times in this space he argues that those at
the top of the income scale pay more than their fair share of taxes and deserve
all they get in this capitalist democracy including ever lower taxes. Now he
seems to bristle under the granting of those very same favors he normally
espouses. Whose values are skewed now...certainly not those on the east side.PS. Being from Tooele, how is it you have a dog in this fight anyway?
It was my understanding that the TRAX rail line location was driven more from an
inside developer's access to a lucrative land deal to the State which he
personally owned and profited from than by public access.
Re: "All parts of the valley should be well served by UTA . . . ."No. Utah should simply give up on UTA's failure to provide anything
approaching efficient, effective communal transport. We could then use the money
saved to actually increase transportation effectiveness, not just in "the
valley" [as if there's only one], but throughout the state, as well.We pay taxes too. We just get nothing in return.
I encourage those who still see things in East vs West to get over it and grow
up.All parts of the valley should be well served by UTA (not just
west, and not just east).Last time I checked there were 3 Traz lines
servicing the west side of the valley (green line to West Valley, red line to
Daybreak, and Airport line). While the only trax line on the east side of the
valley is the University of Utah line. 3-to-1... Now that's hardly
over-emphasising service to east side residents, is it?
UTA knows few east-siders ride the buses and trains. So the east-siders are not
serviced well by public transportation. I'm barely an east-sider, but it
would take me 7 hours to ride a bus from my house to the TRAX station 1.5 miles
Re: "I challenge those that hold similar bias toward the west side of the
valley to rethink things . . . ."Don't we all. But
East-Bench elites tend to believe that if one strays too far west of State
Street, he'll fall of the edge of the earth, since nothing really exists
"way out there."And UTA, like most bloated, unaccountable
state agencies, is controlled almost entirely by East-Bench elites.