No, Mr. Dalton. There are still only three branches of government, and ten
amendments in the Bill of Rights. And one of those amendments is the Second.
so.... what you are saying is that anytime a group successfully rallies their
group members into political action that it is overstepping its' bounds?That would of course mean that all unions are a 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th,....
etc branch of government, many churches, PETA, Sierra Club, and a phlethora of
other groups, .... in other words the people. Oh... but that's the way
it's supposed to be. Thanks for helping us see that the system is working.
Just think - IF the first 3 branches of government would uphold the Constitution
(like they swore to do), there wouldn't have to be that 4th branch of
government you allude to.
I know how you feel. I feel the same way about all those liberal groups that
rally its members and the public in general to get behind their agenda.The ACLU, the radical environmental groups, the NAACP, Unions, Planned
Parenthood, etc., etc..Oh wait...they don't count because even
they do the same kinds of things as the NRA, they support things you are in
favor of. Did I get that right?
I'm not sure the NRA, should get as much credit for this as they are. Yes
Lepierre is very public and vocal but I believe the defeat of the background
check bill says more about our politics than it does lobby groups. What is on
displaly here is the political power a small proportion of the population has
gained through gerrymandering, through the death of democracy in the senate, and
through the effect of equal state representation in the senate. The President
nailed it in '08 when he said there is a group in this country of angry,
(mostly white males..my addition) who have lost the power to direct society as
they want, who are clinging to their guns and religion as the last vestigae of
what they perceive as liberty. Fix the gerrymandering, fix the
filibuster and poof the NRA becomes smoke in the wind.
Great letter!The NRA bought off our government. They appear to be
the 4th branch of government! Great letter!
"so.... what you are saying is that anytime a group successfully rallies
their group members into political action that it is overstepping its'
bounds?"Most would not agree with that.but when
companies spend millions in campaign donations and countless millions in their
lobbying efforts, we are not really sure that our legislators are doing what is
right for he people or what is right for Americans and the US.Defense contractors Lockheed and Boeing collectively spent over $30 million to
lobby congress in 2012 alone. Does anyone NOT think that money affects
legislation?The National Association of realtors spent $41 million
lobbying in 2012Blue cross Blue shield spent $21 millionThe top 20 spending companies on lobbying spent over 450 million dollars.They spent over $850,000 per congressman. And that is only the top
20.How many of you think that help to produce good laws?Seriously, tell me that we can get good laws for America when Corporate
American spends this kind of money for favorable legislation.Walmart
forbids its employees from accepting meals, travel or gifts from suppliers. Lets push for the same restrictions on our politicians.
The real 4th branch of government is the IRS! They are more powerful than the
other 3 branches combined. Don't believe it? Just don't pay your taxes
and you will find out who controls you, your property and your liberties. The
IRS has bankrupted more citizens and businesses than healthcare costs, more than
the price of energy, more than Unions, more than global warming, more than
losing your job and more than all the guns in Chicago. The NRA has never taken
anyone's property, has no power to put you in jail or confiscate your money
right out of your bank account without your permission. Any by the way, the IRS
just got a lot more power; Obamacare!
What we really need to solve the gun problem (bad people with guns) is to have a
"gun possession" license. Anyone who may want to possess a gun, must get
a background check in order to get this license.Just because someone
has a license, does not mean they actually own or possess a gun. It just means
they can legally do it if they wanted to. It is like a driver's license. It
just says I can legally drive a car (mine or someone else's), not that I
own one.In fact, under this system the government has no idea if
they have any guns, what types they are, or how many they may have.In order to buy a gun, they must prove to the seller (not the government) that
they have this license. If someone is caught with a gun and does not have a
license, they face criminal charges.
Groups of all stripes now have more power than individuals in our governmental
system...fact. Why is this so? I believe it has happened for only one reason
and that is that groups can donate more money to the election campaigns of
politicians. Take the money out of politics and the rightful balance of power
would be restored.
JoeBlow You forgot the Unions, and other liberal groups donating millions, GE
was a big sponsor of Obama.
It's not just the NRA, although they seem to be the gold standard at buying
off government. It's big oil, big pharmacy, big religion, big health care,
and pretty much everyone who makes a buck off the defense industry. And none of
them have the interests of the average citizen in mind.
NRA the fourth branch?Nah, it's George Soros and moveondotorg
"You forgot the Unions,"My oversight. Completely agree.
All money corrupts. Yes, even unions and liberal groups.It's
easy being independent. One can criticize ALL transgressions and issues without
being concerned with party. My post, and my list did not breakdown the parties
receiving the money. It makes no difference in the big picture.I see Soros and the Koch brothers as the same, just on different sides of the
political fence. Both are trying to buy legislation. GE was
included in my top 20, although not by name. The big money is not
a liberal/conservative, GOP/Dem issue. I fully assert that the Dems are just as
likely to be bought off as the Reps.But, make no mistake. They are
ALL bought off.If you get the money out, then our congress will have
to vote their views, and the views of the American people.
Soooooooo it appears as if repubs are ok with congress being bought off by the
NRA and ignoring the wishes of 90 percent of us. Interesting.If you folks don't believe that the millions spent by the NRA to
buy off legislators didnt influence them then I have ocean front property to
sell ya. The issue here is freedom and democracy: not the freedom to buy guns
but the freedom of our entire nation. How can we have freedom when corporations
and lobbyists control congress? Are we the United States of America
or the United Special Interests of America?That's the question
we should all be asking ourselves. Yet, it seems as if the repubs are ok with
flagrant and foul bribery. How much longer will The Lord stay his hand from
wiping us clean off the map with such horrible corruption? Have we learned
nothing from the nephites of old???
@ Hutterite. If you don't like the NRA, "big oil", "big
pharmacy", "big religion" or anyone who makes a profit, don't
give them your money. Next time you need medicines, gasoline, or anyone who
makes a buck, call BIG GOVERNMENT!
Agreed.However, the NRA is just one branch on many of the 4th
branches.$Money.It's all about the money.Secret
Combinations who "manage" or "control" the government - not who
ARE the government.The common fool thinks it is the Mafia or street
gangs -- Ha!Child's play.In reality it is WallStreet,
International Bankers, Industrial Military Complex, Big Oil, Big Pharm,
Big Tobacco, and of course the NRA.The stupid Citizen's United
ruling backed with Mitt Romney's talk about Corporations being
"people" and possing any and all Constutional rights and priveledges of
"People", but who can break any laws, even murder -- and can't be
punished, jailed or executed for it.Master Mahan economics 101Lie, plunder, steal, and even murder -- to get GAIN.The Golden
Rule.He who has the Gold, makes the rules.I pity good
Latter-Day Saints who idolize and worship Babylon, and the Gadianton's who
I have yet to see a pro-gun argument that holds water.The
gun-fatality statistics comparing nations are pretty hard to ignore.The second amendment applies, by its own language, only to a
"well-regulated militia." Of course, the courts have expanded that
application well beyond what language or reason permits.The second
amendment says nothing about "guns." We already legally regulate all
sorts of "arms" that our "well-regulated militia" needs to keep
us safe: nuclear weapons, flame throwers, grenades, tanks, bunker busters,
ICBMs, etc. If the presence of guns is supposed to keep us safe, we
should be the safest country on earth, since we have the most guns.We don't regulate guns because profit is more important to many people
than human life.
Re: "I have yet to see a pro-gun argument that holds water. The gun-fatality
statistics comparing nations are pretty hard to ignore."And our
absolute, abject failure to fudge or affect those statistics by deranged leftist
legislation is even harder to ignore.There's the National
Firearms Act (1934); the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968; the
Gun Control Act of 1968; the Gun-Free School Zones Act (1990); the Brady Handgun
Violence Prevention Act (1993); and, of course the thoroughly discredited
Federal Assault Weapons Ban (1994), along with myriad state and local
people-control laws.The problem? They only control the wrong
people.None of these liberal power grabs made us safe, though the
proponents of each promised us they would.Today's liberals
insist on doing the same thing again, hoping for a different result this
time.Insane? I think Dr. Einstein would say so.
@Nate and Fitness FreakThe Supreme Court noted in its decision overturning
the Chicago/DC gun bans that you can't ban all guns... but that
doesn't mean there can't be regulation. Everything the Democrats were
proposing is Constitutional as far as the court has seen it.@procuradorfiscal"And our absolute, abject failure to fudge or
affect those statistics by deranged leftist legislation is even harder to
ignore."This doesn't make sense. You're saying that
laws pushed by liberals make it harder for us to reduce gun violence stats
relative to other nations... but those nations like the UK have laws that are
even more strict than what the liberals are proposing. So... you are somehow
arguing that there's an inverse bell curve where really strict and really
loose gun laws both work but somehow moderate regulation is the worst option.
Moving the comments on this article to the Comics page of the DN would be a
Re: "You're saying that laws pushed by liberals make it harder for us
to reduce gun violence . . . ."Not harder. Nor easier. As I
said, they've simply been proven time and time again to have no significant
effect.There have been hundreds, if not thousands of attempts
[counting state and local Second Amendment infringements] to make us safe by
burdening one or another Second Amendment freedom. All promised we'd be
safer if we just accepted or embraced them.Exactly NONE of those
attempts delivered on that promise.Now, liberals are again promising
safety and security if we'll just accept their, oh so reasonable, but
absolutely clear, infringements of our Second Amendment rights.One
doesn't have to be Dr. Einstein to see that he must have been talking about
precisely that kind of insanity.
"As I said, they've simply been proven time and time again to have no
significant effect."But, haven't we heard time and time
again that 15 million people in the last 10 years were denied gun purchases
because of background checks?Weren't 15 million people denied
access to a gun on the day that they wanted to purchase one?Now, I
believe that the work around for them is so easy, that it makes the current
background check requirement fairly useless. Certainly many of those 15 million
people bought from sources that did not require background checks. So, unless background checks are made universal, I believe that the current
requirement is ineffective. I support background checks for all gun purchases.
When you look at what the NRA has accomplished over the last 25 years it is
astonishing. Gun rights and ownership have greatly expanded. It is one of the
greatest liberal expansions of American's rights during this time.
Coincidentally, fatalities by guns has also greatly expanded. Thru this liberal
expansion of gun rights we've put more guns in idiot's hands and sadly
this has produced thousands of innocent deaths. This is America, and fear
sells. My only recomendation is too not buy the snake oil the NRA is selling.
Reference the letter. Has no one ever heard of the fourth estate?
Re: "I support background checks for all gun purchases."No
doubt. Because the checks that are in place have made us SO much safer, huh?Dr. Einstein was right.
@procuradorfiscal "Dr. Einstein was right."Indeed.Recipe for Big Government:Identify a problem.Propose an
ineffective solution.Apply pressure until the law passes.Wait for
the problem to show up again.Repeat.
Look at how many blame the NRA for standing up for the 2nd Amendment. What is
wrong with those citizens that they would let government take about their right
to keep and bear arms - or to diminish that right by "infringing" the
process used to acquire those arms?The NRA is funded by citizens.
It is not some magical entity that somehow has the power and the ability to
"dictate to government". People give the NRA donations and expect the
NRA to speak for them with a louder voice than they have individually.All "groups" for all parties function basically the same way. Unions
use some of the dues paid by union members for political purposes. Special
interest groups use the money donated to them by citizens to speak their
"piece". Too many people complain about "speech"
even as they use that right themselves. Whether speech is performed by an
individual or by a group of like-minded citizens, it is protected by the
Constitution and should be respected by every citizen whether they agree with
the subject of that speech or not.