Comments about ‘In our opinion: Fix Antiquities Act’

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Published: Monday, April 22 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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HS Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

Bill Clinton was the greatest President of our generation. Creating the Grand Staircase was just one of his incredible acts that this generations and many other will benefit from.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Today, however, competing political philosophies . . . make the definition of danger a moving target."

Yeah -- moving with the whim of the President. No one could honestly argue that Utah public lands were in danger when Clinton gifted them to tree huggers. The danger was to Democrat power and solidarity, not the lands.

This evil act unconstitutionally empowers venal, corrupt politicians to use public lands as political capital to reward support or punish opposition [both of which occurred in Clinton's gift of Utah lands to tree huggers].

It should certainly be brought to heel, immediately, as Mr. Bishop's bill would do. Particularly since the Obama regime has promised other Western lands to its tree hugger operatives.

Over time, however, the Antiquities Act must be repealed or declared unconstitutional.

one old man
Ogden, UT

One more anti-conservation editorial from the Deseret News. Rob Bishop must be very happy with you guys.

And as for the false argument: "No one could honestly argue that Utah public lands were in danger when Clinton gifted them to tree huggers." What about rampaging ORVs, threats of strip mining, threats of turning pristine land over to developers (and then having to find water to supply the people who move into the resulting gated communities), overgrazing, and any of a thousand other destructive practices?

Hopefully, there will be enough sensible Congresscritters to put this idea where it belongs -- in the trash.

Hemlock
Salt Lake City, UT

These federal lands to not belong to the local inhabitants and policy should not be determined by their preferences alone. Utah's wild lands are a public treasure to be preserved for future generations. Looking at Yellowstone's past history of commercial exploitation gives some idea of what will happen to Utah's natural beauty if it is not protected. "Fixing" the law should not mean bowing to those, for example, who want to drive 4-wheelers over every square inch of Utah.

Flashback
Kearns, UT

It's too bad that Bush didn't scale the monument back or repeal it al together with an executive order of his own. He could have done that you know. I propose to let the Congress create such national monuments after much deliberation and input from those most affected.

By the way HS Fan, if you count Clinton as the best president of your generation, you were not paying attention. Either that or you are about 15 years old and aren't qualified to make that kind of judgement.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: " What about rampaging ORVs, threats of strip mining, threats of . . . [blah, blah, blah] . . . and any of a thousand other destructive practices?

None of which were occurring anywhere near the Escalante/Grand Staircase during Clinton's regime.

His venal, corrupt action -- taken in the heat of a campaign, mere weeks before his second election day -- was, pure and simple, to warn/punish Utah voters and buy off disgruntled, radical tree huggers.

The Act, itself, was originally passed to permit emergency protection of Native American archaeological sites. Its misuse to declare Jackson Hole a monument led to near-revolt in Congress, resolved only by the 1992 passage of a law similar to Mr. Bishop's bill, protecting politically-weak Wyoming [but, unfortunately, only Wyoming] from assault by rapacious White House regimes.

The protections afforded Western public lands by this bill are long, LONG overdue. But the Inter-mountain West won't be entirely safe from back-East and left-coast "green" predation until the Antiquities Act is repealed or judicially declared to the dangerous, unconstitutional power-grab it is.

Red
Salt Lake City, UT

I'm not tree hugger but I love the outdoors and have biked more than most people ever will in Southern Utah. I love it.

BUT, to allow Bill Clinton or any President to come into our State and Hijack our resources without our consent or advise is insane.

States should be able to be part of the process.

Anything less is bullying and you know how we all feel about Bully's.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Of course the state and locals should be part of the process, but the process had been going nowhere for years when Clinton finally did the brave thing. Those lands would have been destroyed by now. The massive Dutch coal mine proposed for Kaiparowits would have stripped mountains down and hazed the entire region for decades to come. Do we really want the last beautiful open land in America to be pillaged like that? Why don't conservatives want to conserve anything?

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "Hemlock" go back and read the article. The lands belonged to the Utah School Trust. They did not belong to the federal government, nor did they "belong to the people."

Would you accept it if the government declared that your house had historic value, and that you were to leave it without compensation? How would you evaluate proper compensation.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "The massive Dutch coal mine proposed for Kaiparowits would have stripped mountains down and hazed the entire region for decades to come."

Not.

That proposal was killed two decades before Clinton's land grab [1976]. The only proposal on the table at the time of his misuse of the Antiquities Act was for a much smaller, completely underground mine on an existing lease of only about 10,000 acres.

Why do liberals have so much trouble telling the truth?

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

@HS Fan
Actually Bill Clinton was the 6th best President of our generation (out of 9).

10CC
Bountiful, UT

It's instructive to remember that the Grand Canyon was vehemently opposed by the locals when it was designated under the Antiquities Act, under Teddy Roosevelt. It was seen as a federal takeover that was going to ruin the livelihood of ranchers who had been using those lands for generations. (Sound familiar?) Who today thinks the Grand Canyon should be dissolved as a National Park?

A great percentage of the time, the locals will not see the value in the resource being protected, in the same way everyone else in the nation does. They're used to seeing the red rocks, the vistas, and they naturally "discount" them as they assess their own opportunities to exploit resources in the land. This is human nature, it's understandable. How many of us visit some other state and then come back and realize just how beautiful Utah is?

How many times have National Monuments later been turned into National Parks by Congress? A very large percentage of the time. Arches was originally designated a National Monument by a tyrannical action of a tyrant President, same with many other parks. Now it's on our license plates.

HS Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

Clinton Critics:
Approval ratings upon leaving office of the last 9 Presidents;
Clinton #`1 at 66%
Raygun #2 at 63%
W. Bush #8 at 34%
Nixon #9 at 24%
Argument over, Clinton recognized as the greatest upon leaving office. Grand Staircase played a role as majority of Americans know Utah political leaders are tied to corporate, extraction industries that care more about a few fast bucks than protecting a beutiful, finite landscape for future generations. Bishop's and DN view is solely to appeal to the right wing fringe people that make up the majority of Utah voters but represent a small minority of Americans.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

procuradorfiscal:

I'm not finding any references about the Dutch coal mine and the Kaiparowits plateau except from 1995, an AP article that shows legislation proposed by Utah lawmakers supporting Dutch coal which sought 650,000 acres in Kaiparowits.

Please cite your information saying this idea was killed in the 1950s.

10CC
Bountiful, UT

Historically there has been a lot of opposition to the use of the Antiquities Act, like the Grand Canyon example above.

Let's see how this alleged "abuse of power" was employed in Utah:

Natural Bridges, 1908, Teddy Roosevelt
Rainbow Bridge, 1910, Taft
Dinosaur, 1915, Wilson
Timpanogos Cave, 1922, Harding
Bryce Canyon, 1923, Harding
Arches, 1929, Hoover
Zion, 1937, FDR
Escalante / Grand Staircase, 1996, Clinton

I'm having a hard time seeing the list of these "federal takeovers" being unreasonable. Actually, they appear to be quite sage moves within contexts of contention for those resources by parties who were interested in developing the lands.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Please cite your information saying this idea was killed in the 1950s."

I'm not aware of any information saying this idea was killed in the 1950s.

As I said above, however, the large, strip-mining proposal died in 1976. The much smaller, underground, 10,000 acre proposal was the only one pending at the time of Clinton's political land grab. This is one of many issues covered in a nice, footnoted discussion of politics and land use history on NAU's CP-LUHNA website.

You can find Wyoming's protective statute at 16 USC 431a.

BTW, nice tactic -- luring someone with a cogent, opposing argument into using his last post [particularly one without half-a-dozen aliases, like others here] to do your research for you.

But that's OK. I'll take my last post to reiterate -- giving unfettered discretion to a single political animal to lock away public lands gives him/her unfettered discretion to punish or reward political constituencies for purely political reasons.

The Antiquities Act is a very BAD idea, and must be repealed.

Moabmom
Moab, UT

When Clinton locked up Kaiparowits, the reason was two fold: 1. To secure the "tree hugger" vote 2) as a political payoff to Lippo Group,an Indonesian conglomerate. Prior to the election revelations surfaced almost daily regarding donations from foreign sources (ie Lippo) to the Democratic Party and Clinton. A mega coal plant was built in Baja and ready to go online, but they needed coal, the kind found in Kaiparowits and only found two other places in the world. One being Colombia, but they were no where ready to mine. and, you guessed it, Indonesia. The logical source for the Baja plant would have been Kaiparowits, but Utah wasn't exactly a big doner to Clinton or the Democratic party. Escalante was locked up and Utah sold down the river so Clinton could get re-elected. Funny how those singing Clintons praises seem to forget the real details of what went on back then. Clinton didn't even have the guts to set foot in Utah and announce that monument.

one old man
Ogden, UT

I have to agree with flashback. Clinton was not the greatest president. At least not as a person. But Obama is.

one old man
Ogden, UT

procura, when you write: "Re: " What about rampaging ORVs, threats of strip mining, threats of . . . [blah, blah, blah] . . . and any of a thousand other destructive practices?

None of which were occurring anywhere near the Escalante/Grand Staircase during Clinton's regime."

I have to ask, were you ever there? I was. I witnessed a lot of that. Only one who is blind to the truth can deny that it did.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Wrong, redshirt. School lands make up only a small percentage of the land.

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