@Immifriend:"America being the land of the free, why aren't
people free to be Americans?"People are free to be Americans.
But they must go through the correct process. And they must stand in line
awaiting a turn. There are millions, perhaps billions, wanting to come to the
US. We can't take the whole world in. We don't have the jobs or the
real estate to accommodate. We have millions of unemployed Americans. We
don't need more foreigners taking their work."Why should
becoming an American be a crime?"It's not a crime to become
an American. But it has to be done correctly."But, what is so
wrong with letting someone come to America because they want to work..."We let millions come here legally every year. What more do you want?"...or because they want to join family here..."If
families want to be together they can join in their homeland."Those are honorable things."The honorable things are to
obey our country's immigration laws. We are a nation of laws and a nation
of law keepers."Let's let them in."And
let's give them your job.
Immifriend:So you are advocating that we allow anyone from anywhere in the
world who wants to come to the US to be allowed in unabated. There are probably
a Billion or more people who would like to take us up on that offer, where are
you going to put them and what are they going to do?Why do
individuals leave their home countries for a better life instead of working to
make a better life where they are from? That is what most of our ancestors did.
None of my ancestors who came to the US came illegally, and none were given
welfare or other free services to help them once they got here. This was a much
different country when they came, mostly a harsh, rugged environment. BTW, when I moved to Utah in 2001 my wife took a job working in Salt Lake
city. At the time the State University policy was you had to be in the state not
going to school for 1-year, or reach a certain number of credit hours before
getting in-state tuition. As they were giving illegals in-state tuition, they
increased the requirements on my legal wife.
"Undocumented Americans".. An oxymoron if there ever was one. All
Americans born in the U.S. are issued a Social Security account number and
therefore are documented. All Naturalized Americans are also documented. Other
than these, all undocumented persons in this country are Aliens. Those not
having green cards or visas are here illegally and are breaking federal law.
The lightest penalty under that law in deportation and therefore, the most
lenient. So what is the debate all about?
We could also call them, "Those who want to be Americans, but who lack our
permission." America being the land of the free, why aren't people free
to be Americans? Why should becoming an American be a crime? Let's keep it
illegal to bring drugs into the U.S. Let's prosecute those involved in
drugs and murder and mayhem, regardless whether they came from south of the
border or were already here. But, what is so wrong with letting someone come to
America because they want to work, or because they want to join family here, or
want to live in a nation they have admired all their lives? Those are honorable
things. Why make it illegal for them to do something honorable? Let's let
them in. We might could take the advice of Paul McCartney on this one:
"Someone's knocking at the door. Somebody's ringing the bell. Do
me a favor, and let 'em in."
Diya proudly proclaims, "Therefore, we should support humane immigration
reform and reaffirm our commitment to the undocumented Americans [sic] who live
here."So, tell me Diya, on what basis do you believe that such
reaffirmation should take place?Is it because of your sense of rules
governing "humane immigration"?Is it because of your sense
of rules governing humane treatment generally?Maybe, it's the
rules on this topic that you were taught when you, "became part of an
important diversity program at the University of Utah." I'm sure they
based their opinion on some sort of hierarchy of rules. After all, it is on
that basis that you are now insisting that we abandon the rule of law upon which
we all, supposedly, structure our society.A very good friend of mine
based his attempts to enter and stay in the country on the rule of law. He
expended thousands of dollars and decades of effort just trying to play by the
rules. All for naught. You appear to be saying that he was, at best, a chump.
At worse your thesis would declare him to be an uncaring promoter of an
oppressive and unfair adherence to law.
cjbYour being silly. Mexico signed away the land, and the US paid
for it. A better argument would be Germany, England and France repossessing
Mexico for failure to replay money lent to Mexico to fight their wars. Instead
Mexico beat France and celebrate it with Cinco De Mayo.This really
is an old article, with the executive order waivers. There seems to be a tend of
arguing the past.
FT1/SSWe are both on the same page.Did you notice my
last line? "Notice that I am not defending the Dems as they are also
guilty."I also blame both sides. But many on this board scream
only at the dems as if the GOP is not equally as guilty.I am also an
independent voter ( I vote both R and D at times)My common theme on
these boards is that R and D have gotten us into this situation. They are
bought and paid for by lobbyists, Unions and Corporations.
Why play the sympathy card, when Obama has already given them waivers? Federal contributions for a college education is $6000 a year. That goes onto
the taxpayers back. At 18 they had the right to go home and come
back legally. If they are 19 they are just as illegal as their parents. No one is undocumented, they have documents in their home country, and
fake (stolen) ones here.
Fair and balance for JoeBlow. I suggest that all of you write your congressman
and demand to know why they have done nothing about the immigration issue.First ask Warner (Va Senator), then ask Pelosi, then ask Reid, then ask
Moran (Va). These guys did nothing on immigration. They championed obamacare.
They championed the largest entitlement expansion in my lifetime that is and
will weaken the economy.Did the illegal immigration problem just
start at the 2010 midterms?Did the deficit problem begin for Obama at the
2010 midterms?Tell me what the DEM has done about the deficit. Tell
me what the DEM has done about illegal immigration. We already know what the
Dems have done to skyrocketing health care costs!Tell me what the
DEM did with complete DEM control of the House, Senate and Presidency under
Obama.If those on the left would demand that your party address
these problems when they are in power, your rants would seem much more
sincere.How can anyone think that the solution to all these problems
is "just vote Dem".Is your memory that short?From an
Independent Voter who blames both sides, and our no leader Obama.
I suggest that all of you write your congressman and demand to know why they
have done nothing about the immigration issue.First ask Orrin, then
ask Boehner, then ask McConnell, then ask Cantor. These guys did nothing on
immigration. They championed NCLB. They championed the largest entitlement
expansion in my lifetime - Medicare part D.Did the illegal
immigration problem just start 5 years ago?Did the deficit problem begin
when Obama won the election?Tell me what the GOP has done about the
deficit. Tell me what the GOP has done about illegal immigration. Tell me what
the GOP has done about skyrocketing health care costs?Tell me what
the GOP did with complete GOP control of the House, Senate and Presidency under
Bush.If those on the right would demand that your party address
these problems when they are in power, your rants would seem much more
sincere.How can anyone think that the solution to all these problems
is "just vote GOP".Is your memory that short?Notice
that I am not defending the Dems as they are also guilty.
"Many of them are what I call 'undocumented Americans.'"How about calling them what they are... 'people who've crossed
our borders without permission and have no documents whatever that would permit
them to stay.'"They are going to school and dreaming to
live the lives they aspire to live."Why are they not going to
school in their own homeland? They certainly must have schools there."Although most undocumented immigrants come from Mexico and other Latin
American countries..."That's the problem... most are from
Latin American countries. So, when they come here they form coalitions
permitting them to exercise substantial influence on our political processes...
such as electing our presidents. The result? Our country starts being run by
foreigners."In the school year 2010-2011, there were 716
undocumented students taking advantage of this bill throughout the
state."Taking slots in schools that rightly belong to
Americans."My undocumented American friends are capable,
brilliant leaders. Their knowledge and skills would be invaluable to this
community..."Shouldn't these talented leaders be helping
their own country? Why is it that we think we should garner all the
Re anti-liarAny Mexicans who cross the border are not stealing.They have claim on this land too.How would you like it if
the laws were strictly enforced and all land taken by broken treaties, wars of
aggression and walking on to land that wasn't theirs had to be give be
given back?What would you have for an inheritance? ... If the UN
for instance strictly enforced the law?Be careful what you ask for.
We may be a nation of laws but those laws are based upon human dignity, freedom
and responsibility. If you met one of these illegally brought children you
wouldn't even know they were here illegally. They may even be your
neighbors. You would be ashamed of being so harsh and cruel as to say go back
to a country you have hardly lived in to a people you don't know. They are
as much american as you or I and most of them are trying to do the right thing
'Immigrants create more jobs than they take'?"John
CC" The number of jobs we have are NOT infinite.Ask anyone at
the unemployment office. Many of our LEGAL neighbors have been put
out of work and are now on unemployment. A good part of those jobs were
construction or service jobs where employers found they could pay illegal
trespassers "under the table" and save a few bucks.Sadly,
some of their neigbors couldn't care less about their plight. Its MUCH
more politically correct to run interference for lawbreakers.Where's respect for your LEGAL neighbors?Where's respect for
the laws of our nation (that we all agreed to abide by, BTW).Way
back in 2nd grade I learned we were supposed to live by the laws of the land,
even the ones we don't like.There's no reason whatsoever
that a "new law" will be enforced any better than the "old"
law.Lawbreaking employers will continue to ignore any law they
don't particularly like UNTIL enforcement occurs.
There is a lot of middle room between "ship them all back" and "open
borders."There is nothing illegal about adjusting immigration
quotas to a level supported by supply and demand.There is nothing
immoral about having guest workers compete with citizens on a level playing
field.Amnesty has an honored place in our legal system. Let's
compromise somewhere between EVERYONE and NO ONE. Remember, some children had
no choice.We are not superior. Fortunate, but not superior.There is something immoral about not helping poor neighbors--especially
when many solutions can help both sides.I understand how those who
come legally may resent those who don't. Conversely, shouldn't we
also respect those who who let their families starve out of respect for our
law?The Constitution included no immigration restrictions. It told
Congress to set up naturalization for those already here. A pathway to
citizenship. Are you proud your ancestors came here legally? Well,
before 1875 they all did. Then Congress decided the the Chinese workers, whom
we had invited, were unworthy. We were probably intimidated by how well they
had built our railroad from California to Utah.Need work?
Immigrants create more jobs than they take.
To "Diya Shah" it is a nice emotional argument that you make. However,
we are a nation of laws, and laws have consequences attached to them when you
break the law.For example, if you knew a hardworking family that
obtained welfare benefits illegally would you allow them to continue to receive
the benefits?How about a really nice person who just happens to run
a ponzi scheme. They are nice and contribute to the community with the money
they get, should they be allowed to keep going?What is the
difference. All are nice, and hardworking people that just happen to have
broken a law or 2. They should get the same treatment as the illegal
immigrants, because we shouldn't discriminate.
Thank you Sudha S for highlighting how we are talking about the children. Those
children who have been brought here, but must remain in constant fear of being
removed from a land where they grew up. These children should not be punished
for events that were completely out of their control. They've worked just
as hard (and in most cases much harder) as those here legally to make something
of themselves. Furthermore, the dreams they dream are not any different; they
want to support their families, get jobs, contribute to this nation. Sadly, not
as much can be said for some of our own children here. No one is
encouraging Green Cards be doled out along borders and in international
airports, but simply that innocent contributors to our society be aided and
given the resources that will inevitably benefit this country.
These so called "illegal" immigrants that are residing in US are paying
taxes on regular basis. They are contributing to the US economy. The only
difference between these "illegal" people and us is the fact that we
have mere PAPERS that says we can stay in this land. I am not saying
legalize everyone without papers, I am saying give their children a chance.
These children came here without their knowledge of their immigration status to
the US and tried to pursue the American Dream. But now because they don't
have the legal formalities, they have to throw away their hard work and efforts
out the way? The reason most of families are migrating to US is for the
higher education for their children and better opportunities because the
countries they come from do not have all these resources. All we need to do is
give the children a chance to grow up in our country, the land of freedom and
opportunities. They will be contributing to the nation later in future. Let the
children get the education they want. If they want to learn, let them, who are
we to decide their future?
The statue of "Justice" (don't know if the lady has a name) is
blindfolded for a reason. The evidence is to be weighed in the scales and thus
the determination, regardless of the people before her. Our leaders of all
stripes have aided and abetted this problem for generations. The people here
without permission - visa or similar status are illegally here, they are
breaking the law. Change the law, if it hurts your sensitivities. Sponsor a
family, you be Uncle Sugar while they apply for citizenship.Oh,
diversity is not a strength, people from diverse backgrounds uniting together
for a common goal is strength. People from various backgrounds, cultures and
languages who group together and exclude themselves from the general population
and language and culture do not progress in the culture and do not aid or
improve the host society.If I were to choose to live in Germany, I
would crack the books on how to speak German and get along with my neighbors. I
am of the opinion there is no way this problem will be resolved without a lot of
stress and tears.
Calling them an "undocument immigrant" makes as much sense as calling a
drug dealer an undocumented pharmacist. It is not racist to call anyone illegal
this applies to anyone coming from any country through illegal channels.
Cry me a river. If you're a criminal, you get no sympathy from me.
When university students pay their tuition, they are paying approx. one-third of
the costs of their education. Legal citizens of the state pays the remaining
two-thirds through their already excessive taxes.Do Utah residents
REALLY want to subsidize illegal alien students? Especially when they
can't work here anyway?It doesn't seem to bother the
(so-called)leaders of the state. Then again, its not their money they are
spending, its ours.Why worry?
Re: ". . . 'undocumented Americans' . . . ."Undocumented Americans? So . . . I must be an undocumented German? Or
Salvadoran? Or Hungarian? Or Bosnian? Or Kuwaiti?I've lived in
each of these places, so, by analogy to the reasoning of this article, I should
demand the right to claim benefits and citizenship status in each, right?This debate is beyond silly.Not a single ONE of the
countries these illegals come from would feel the slightest compulsion to extend
benefits of citizenship to any American. And, as the article indicates, those
countries are being denied the talents and accomplishements of their "best
and brightest."It's a win-win to send these
"undocumented Americans" back to their own countries, where they'll
be documented, appreciated, and be free to use their immense talents to advance
their own people into the 21st century.
If parents are illegally trafficking their children into this country across
international lines and if as a result their child is obtaining an advantage
over someone else's child who is here legally, and if those parents are
doing this with that end in mind, then those parents are guilty of willfully
STEALING for their children. If those children then endeavor to keep the loot
their parents stole for them, then they become guilty as well. And
these children didn't just appear in this country out of nowhere.
Illegal-alien parents brought them here. Most likely, those parents are
continuing to roam this nation freely. The simple truth is that these parents
should be deported, every last one of them, and their children should be
deported with them. That is not inhumane, nor is it a death
sentence. It is the only fair and right thing to do. It is not fair that
someone's else's kid should suffer unjustly due to theft. The
families may then take their winnings and make a contribution to their
communities in their home countries, with honor. It is time we
start being honest and acknowledge the situation for what it is.