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Comments about ‘Calif. tax bill seeks to punish Scouts for gay ban’

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Published: Wednesday, April 10 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Gone fishin
Murray, UT

Who else but liberal California would force, by law, someone to think and act that they do. The BSA has been around for a very long time and has time-tested values that have worked for many years. This will mean the end of the BSA in California as we know it.

Bleed Crimson
Sandy, Utah

California's intolerance towards Christian believers. Typical!

well informed
Salt Lake, UT

Time for the LDS Church to part ways with the Boy Scouts.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

This is about scout safety.

Men dont go on campouts with little neighbor girls.

Men who may be attracated to boys shouldnt do the same with neighbor boys.

OHBU
Columbus, OH

Gone fishin:
While I would love the BSA to drop its ridiculous positions excluding gays, I'm not sure this is the right direction to go. I'm much more in favor of getting this changed from within. However, I'd point out that you are basically accusing "liberal California" of the exact same thing people level against "Mormon Utah"--using laws to force people to act like you do--see: Utah's liquor laws and cities banning any businesses from being open on Sundays as just two examples. In both cases, you are legislating beliefs.

Also, "time-tested values that have worked for many years" is not, in itself, a valid argument. It's the same argument given for slavery, which dates back to at least ancient Greece. That something produces a desired result does not mean it can't produce that result by other means. You need to establish that lifting the ban would make the BSA unable to achieve its mission.

Oatmeal
Woods Cross, UT

It would "deny tax-exempt status to nonprofit youth groups that discriminate on the basis of gender identity, race, sexual orientation, nationality, religion or religious affiliation."

So unconstiutional on so many levels. Think about it... freedom of association, both boys' and girls' groups, ethnic/cultural organizations, any religious group... This is extremist insanity!

Fred Vader
Oklahoma City, OK

hhmmmm....that is really weird. I could swear all of the "gay marriage" supporters swore up and down that they wouldn't go after folks to force them to accept gays into their organizations. They claim they wouldn't force the LDS church or other churches to perform gay marriages in their temples, churches or synagoges, but it is "ok" to deny the Boy Scouts their freedom of association guaranteed by the 1st amendment? Seems like if it is ok to tax the Boy Scouts for not agreeing with the gays, it is only a hop, skip and a jump to do the same thing to churches and other tax-exempt entities to force them to "behave" as well.

If you are a "gay marriage supporter" and you are not against this act of the Cali legislature, then you can no longer use the excuse that "gay marriage" won't be forced on churches. This is exactly why the churches are fighting it.

OHBU
Columbus, OH

Chris B:

The BSA currently has no policy against women acting as adult leadership. Here's the policy in question: "Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips and outings." That's because being hetero doesn't mean a grown woman will try to be with a young boy. Likewise, being gay is not the same as being a pedophile. In fact, the vast majority of men who have abused boys identify as hetero (about 97%), thus the current ban does nothing for child protection because they wouldn't be excluded on grounds of sexual orientation.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there always Priesthood leadership at Girl's Camp? If so, then grown men do go camping with neighbor girls.

Brave Sir Robin
San Diego, CA

@OHBU

"You need to establish that lifting the ban would make the BSA unable to achieve its mission."

Incorrect. The BSA needs to prove nothing. It's a private organization that can admit whoever it wants for whatever reason it wants. Think of it this way: Augusta National country club doesn't allow women, although they could certainly "achieve their mission" (providing golf) if women were allowed. So are you suggesting that no group may exclude anyone from anything unless they can prove it would keep them from achieving their mission? You've lost the script I'm afraid. Otherwise there will soon be boys joining Girl Scouts.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Fred Vader
"I could swear all of the "gay marriage" supporters swore up and down that they wouldn't go after folks to force them to accept gays into their organizations. They claim they wouldn't force the LDS church or other churches to perform gay marriages in their temples, churches or synagoges, but it is "ok" to deny the Boy Scouts their freedom of association guaranteed by the 1st amendment? "

As a gay marriage supporter I oppose this proposed bill.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

“The legislation, also known as the Youth Equality Act, would deny tax-exempt status to nonprofit youth groups that discriminate on the basis of gender identity, race, sexual orientation, nationality, religion or religious affiliation.”

Clearly a violation of the 1st amendment. But the US Constitution does not matter to liberals.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "[Long Beach Democrat] Sen. Ricardo Lara [said] 'Our state values the important role that youth groups play in the empowerment of our next generation . . . .'"

While it may be true that the real people of the state of California value that important role, Democrats continue to make it clear they do not. And that they will punish anyone who disagrees with their deranged notions of some new morality that should replace everything tried-and-true.

Democrats are stumbling over one another to prove to real people that they've become the party of brutal, intolerant bigots.

Star Bright
Salt Lake City, Ut

Interesting OHBU: "Mormon Utah"--using laws to force people to act like you do--see: Utah's liquor laws and cities banning any businesses from being open on Sundays as just two examples."
The only places the "Utah Mormons" insist are closed on Sunday are businesses that occupy the land and the malls which the Mormons own!
And, yes, the Scouts are going after all the Churches which will not preform gay marriages!

Nagap
Dallas, TX

@OHBU

You must be the King/Queen of false analogies.

First, comparing the regulation of alcohol in Utah to California denying tax exemption to a private institution does not equate. This is called a logical fallacy.

But while we are on the topic of legislation, didn't the Supreme court affirm that as a private institution, the Boy Scouts of America can set their own membership standards. So let's leave it up to them--there are very capable people on the National Executive Board, and I'm sure they want to make a decision that is best for the organization.

Next, comparing priesthood leaders holding a devotional during the evening at girls camp to homosexuals camping out with young men, I'm sure you weren't being serious.

OlderGreg
USA, CA

It is a TAX bill being proposed by a group of California grandstanders. It has to get through the committee before it gets to the floor for a vote, where it will need a minimum ⅔ vote to pass each legislative body. It is weird in the language that says it goes into effect immediately (instead of some fiscal year)--- which would create additional bean-counter challenges.

Pretty good indication of the bill being punitive in nature.

OHBU
Columbus, OH

Brave Sir Robin,

As you'll notice, I'm not in favor of making the BSA do anything it doesn't want to do. However, you have to realize that there is a large faction within its own organization that wants this ban lifted. I would like the BSA to recognize this on their own.

In the first post, however, Gone fishin attempts to make an argument for why the BSA should keep it. I merely pointed out that their argument was does not pass the muster, and if they want the ban to stay in place, they are going to need to convince the organization that changing the policy would be harmful.

As a sidenote, Augusta has now admitted women into the country club. Also, they didn't have tax exempt status in the first place.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@fred vader

While i think it is a bit of a stretch to claim that removing the boy scouts tax exempt status is the same as forcing churches to marry gay couples, I can says someone that supports gay rights this bill does make me uncomfortable so please try not to lump us all in with this one senator.

NedGrimley
Brigham City, UT

Fred Vader: I, like you, wanted to believe the continued affirmations that no one would be "forced"... Force comes in many formats. Wait for it....Wait for it... The headline coming soon: "California lawmakers are considering taking some tax exemptions away from ... groups that do not accept gay, transgender or atheist members — a move intended to pressure ... Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Moslems," ... take your pick.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

sorry that was suppose to be "as someone that supports gay rights"

sg
newhall, CA

Then it's time for the BSA to leave California altogether. Again, is there any reason why any good-standing Mormon should feel so inclined to be a democrat? Another abuse of power given by the people. Unfortunately, those people are lacking in clear judgment.

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