Someone's anticipating Bill O'Reilly's 'War On
Christmas' ahead of time.
@4601 where exactly did I claimn to be a martyr? also kind of a strange
accusation givent he subject of the thread dont you think? that aside, what part
of discrimination is wrong no matter who does it or who they do it to are you
trying to not understanding?
@badgerLawsuits? I will be honest, right or wrong I felt like trying to
seek justice through the courts against these employers would only assure that I
would never be hired again for any job in this state. No, each time I swallowed
my pride and accepted that my rights where not going to be protected. I do agree with you though that discrimination no matter who engages in it is
not acceptable and that you cannot say everyone is equally guilty but I am not
sure I really see people doing that in this thread. I certainly do not hold the
LDS church or people that are LDS responsible for these peoples actions, they
acted on their own but I also understand the potentially very serious
ramifications of trying to stand up against them in a culture that is so
strongly LDS. Your right Christians do deserve the same
considerations as Muslims or anyone else for that matter here in the US and
everywhere but again I do not see anyone on this thread saying they don’t,
which brings us back to Maudines comment about red herrings.
Tolstoy, If you apply for a job in the LDS office building or a Catholic
rectory, you can be turned down because of your religion. Otherwise it's
illegal. Do something about it and stop playing the martyr. For every instance
you claim to experience (without any documentation), there are probably just as
many unspoken quotas that limit others opportunity in state universities, law
firms, government jobs, etc.
Tolstoy "I as a non LDS person have been told on three different
occasions that I would not be hired because I was not LDS"So you
are living on all the money you won in the lawsuits over this, right? It shouldn't happen, but does. I worked for an employer who would
preferentially hire those who are not Mormon. BTW, the first post
was sarcastic. The problem throughout this thread, and in the
population at large, is that people are lumping everyone of one group together
as equally guilty. THis is discriminatory, making all accusations of
discrimination total hypocrisy. The person who discriminates is guilty. The
'group' they are from is not guilty. Kind of like Muslims are not
terrorists, just the Muslim terrorists are terrorists.Christians
deserve the same consideration as Muslims, especially in America.
It's about to get a lot worse for Christans because the Un-American race
baiting SPLC just labelled them as extremists.
Wasn't it "Christians" who lead the Inquisition?Wasn't
it "Christians" who invaded the New World and dessimated the indigenous
people?Wasn't it "Christians" who harrassed Muslims
post 9-11?Wasn't it "Christians" who didn't allow
Muslims the right to build a cultural center in New York?Wasn't it
"Christians" who invaded a sovereign middle eastern countrry for their
oil?BTW - Wasn't it "Christians" who harassed and drove
the Mormons out of the United States?Wasn't it Christ himself
who said; "He who is without sin, cast the first stone"?
@badgerI think you may want to reread maudinene post. I as a non LDS
person have been told on three different occasions that I would not be hired
because I was not LDS, a situation which maudines post clearly disc riles as
@ badgerbadger: There is a difference between persecution and discrimination.
But nice red herring.
HutteriteAmerican Fork, UT"So, are you going to offer the other
cheek, or whine about it?"Dead Christians can't really turn
the other cheek. Those fleeing for their lives can't either.
It really isn't funny.But thanks for putting the
verbal abuse and discrimination here in the "free world" in perspective.
So, are you going to offer the other cheek, or whine about it?
Christians "may" be harrassed more than peoples of other religions but
"christians", (U.S. christians anyway) "may" be the most likely
to harrass others for their beliefs.
By Maudine's standard, no one is discriminated against in this country.
Drop all the affirmative action and hate crime laws. We don't need them any
more. Deportation of illegal aliens isn't discriminatory
either.And call people whatever you want, just don't jail them.
There is no religious persecution towards Christians in the US.No
Christian is denied a job because of his or her faith. No Christian is jailed
because of his or her faith. No Christian is denied the opportunity to worship.
Yes - when Christians want to use their religious beliefs as the
basis for passing laws, that is challenged. When Christians want only their
symbols and holidays recognized, that is challenged. When religious
organizations receive taxpayer funds they are expected to act the same as all
other organizations. These are not examples of persecution - they are examples
of a lack of favoritism.If you study the history of countries where
religious persecution occurs, you will see that it all started with the exact
same arguments many Christians are making here. We need to start
focusing on real persecution and stop pretending that a mere disagreement on
religion is the same thing as a denial to practice your faith.
Many Americans claim we are a "Christian" country and write letters of
offense whenever someone claims we are not or when someone who is not Christian
wants the right to not have Christianity imposed on them in the form of crosses
by the side of the highway or pictures of Jesus hanging in public schools.The majority of countries where persecution of Christians occurs, are
countries that have a state religion - and Christians are persecuted for not
adhering to this state religion.Here in the US there is a group of
Christians who believe that the Constitution only applies to Christians and that
no others are protected by it nor entitled to hold public office.There is a reason why our Founding Fathers opposed a state religion and why so
many Americans promote the separation of church and state - only by guaranteeing
everyone the freedom of their own beliefs can we ensure the continuance of
freedom of religion. The minute we start to favor one religion over another, we
head down the road of true religious persecution.
"The Atlantic's Jeffrey Goldberg, an expert on the region, told me he
is shocked that American Christians aren't regularly protesting outside of
embassies drawing attention to this issue."Hear hear. That
would be a nobler use of American Christian's time, but most would rather
be offended because they can't put a nativity scene in the public square or
because a retailer chooses Santa Claus over a manger scene.This
article and this report identifies serious issues facing Christians all over the
world - issues of genocide and horible violence perpetrated against God fearing
Christians for doing nothing more than practicing their religion. We can find
lots of excuses for why Christians might be experiencing this violence, such as
the actions of so-called Christians from past centuries, but the actions of
those from the past should not provide justification for illegal and immoral
acts committed today. The next time I read a letter to the editor in the DN
about the War on Christmas I hope it is about the more broad and serious issues
highlighted in this article and not about somebody not liking the Christmas
decorations of some retail store.
To persecute a person for his/her religious beliefs (or lack thereof) is
abhorrent. To restrict one's freedom to develop his/her own religious
beliefs is a fundamental violation of human liberty. The enlightenment ideals
that were so cherished by the founders have safeguarded this freedom here, but
not so in many parts of the world.Such persecution is not limited to
Christians. Just today I read that the government of Bangladesh has arrested
three atheist bloggers for blasphemy and defaming Islam. These three bloggers
could face 10 years in prison under the country's cyber laws, simply for
stating their opinions publicly. We should all join together to
support freedom of religion and freedom of speech throughout the world. The
blasphemy laws are often used to persecute Christians, as well as atheists
throughout the middle east and northern Africa. Similarly, Bahai's are
persecuted and imprisoned for their beliefs in Iran. Such persecution is mainly
a problem in Islamic countries, but even in the U.S. there are still laws on the
books in seven states that prohibit atheists from serving in public office.