There will be a lot of black market healthcare as a result of obamacare.
" they are higher than when Bush was in office and have been for years
now."Only if you cherry pick the dates. Gas was certainly
higher at times under Bush than they are today.Under Bush they hit
over $4 per gallon. Was that Obamas fault, or was it the global economic
Re: HVHNot quite sure I understand your point. I said that
Democrats will get credit for any good Obamacare brings. Like for instance,
insurance companies not being able to dump a person just as soon as they get
sick or denying coverage altogether because of pre existing conditions. Those
things I do believe are good policies and want them enforced. However, there is
a lot of potential bad with this plan and the Republicans had nothing to do with
it. Gas prices? Did I miss todays numbers? Unless they have
dropped by about a dollar a gallon today, they are higher than when Bush was in
office and have been for years now. If you want the Democrats to get credit for
that, be my guest. As far as kicking the can down the road, please. The Harry
Reid U.S. Senate won't even approach the can, much less kick it. At least
Republicans in the House have tried to put forth a budget. You can't deny
that unless you are watching MSNBC and nothing else. In which case, welcome to
the world of "low information voter". You are now a member.
Health care premiums have been rising steadily.maybe Obamacare is
not the solution, I dont really know.However, at the rate the
premiums are rising, it is obvious to most who actually LOOK at the issue, that
SOMETHING must be done. The last plan that I remember the GOP
really pushing looked pretty similar to Obamacare. And Orrin was a staunch
supporter then, as was the Heritage Foundation.
@Happy Valley Heretic:We can do with neither a democratic, or
republican plan. Let local areas handle it.@xscribe:Do
you think people will make more money for less subsidy?Where do
these subsidies come from?--Those already being responsible, and have already
been paying. Poor welfare people don't pay into the system--the successful
do, and it's going to cost them.
I'm sure Democrats would be willing to change little details in the bill
that aren't working as well as intended, maybe if Republicans would quit
the grandstanding with their 39 or so attempts to get rid of the entire thing
perhaps they could fix some of them.
Whatever,regardless of whether costs were going up before Obamacare or
not, BO said his plan would reduce costs, He lied.
To "Happy Valley Heretic" yes they have, the GOP have been mediocre
socialists for quite a while. I wish that they would just stop trying to be
like the Democrats, and would actually be conservative.If more
people realized that it is because of government that healthcare is so expensive
we would elect officials with plans on how to get government OUT of the way of
the insurance companies.
@worf-- you're saying premium rates wouldn't have risen without
Obamacare?@SCfan--"So, everything that goes bad with it will be
100% on the doorstep of Democrats."Like gas prices, will everything
that goes right be 100% credited to the Democrats? I doubt your sincerity.What was the Republican plan again?Oh yeah kick that can down the
road.Yes Redshirt, the Republicans have been striving for Mediocrity
for some time now.
To "sigmund5" you are wrong. When you look at the WHO report and what
they use to measure the healthcare systems, we should look at being 35th as a
badge of honor, and should strive to do even worse on the socialist policies
that the WHO looks at.The fact is that in the US we are able to
respond to medical needs faster than anybody else in the world. For most
cancers we have the highest survival rate, and when factoring out accidental
deaths, the US has the longest lifespan. The US also has the most advanced
medical facilities and technologies anywhere on the planet. So, why should we
destroy that system just so that the WHO can tell us we are better than somebody
For Whatever, I don't know that the T-Party has ever proposed a solution.
However, that does not mean that this Obama solution is what we should be doing.
Truth is, I hadn't noticed any more of an increase in health care than I
have with everything we pay for such as gas. What I have noticed is in some
cases not only is the cost going up with Obamacare, but the types of coverage
for certain procedures is diminishing. That is a worry we all should be
concerned with.For Liberal Ted, The term "Low Information
Voter" is really becoming clear, isn't it!
Worf: Yet again, you go off point from what you or I posted!
Promises PromisesIf it sounds too good to be true, it probably
is.But, every election cycle. For some reason people become stupid
and gullible and believe what the candidates and the media feed them. If you ask
a question then you are labeled a trouble maker, a bigot, racists, sexist etc.
If you stray from the talking points, you are hunted down, humiliated and
they'll dig all the dirt they can find on you.After all
politics is big business and alot of money goes into it, to keep certain people
in power and in authority.
All of you who feel the need to comment on how bad Obamcare is, could you please
tell us what the tea party solution is? My insurance costs go up every year
without fail. Every year I pay more money for less coverage, and I have since
2000. If the market solution is so great, why is it that costs have only gone up
and the amount of coverage has gone down?
The joys of Obamacare. You just took a cut in hours by your employer, your
losing your home, so you sell to just lower your debt load, you lose six percent
of your equity to the agents that sell your home and now surprise, Obama (care?)
shaves another three percent of the gross sales price as a tax. Obama (care?)
like most tax policies of the progressives and liberals end up driving up the
costs to survive for the lower middle class and the poor. No one with a
straight face can say this does not raise the costs for middle class and the
Re: Gregory Hill @ sigmund5Obama care was passed without any time to
really understand the 2500 pages and or debated. Clearly this legislation was
not written during that session of Congress, but was sitting in some drawer
waiting to be dusted off when the time came to pass it. Truth is, it never
would have passed in its current form if there had been any bi-partisan work
done on it. So, everything that goes bad with it will be 100% on the doorstep
of Democrats. 100% of any good also, but I suspect that we are in for a lot of
bad surprises. The law of "un-intended consequences" is going to rear
its ugly head a lot in the coming years with this program. And if America is
only 35th in the world on medical care, then why do so many people from all
around the world, including Canada, come to America for medical care?
xscribe-- you're saying premium rates won't rise?With over
half our people on welfare, --define affordable.
Surprise will be the operative word for Obamacare. Like Pelosi so eloquently
said you have to pass it to know what is in it. Well we will have to live it to
find out what is in it. Good luck to all.
To quote Ben Rumson from the movie 'Paint Your Wagon', "They
civilize left, they civilize, right, till nothing is left. Till nothing is
right. They civilize freedom till no one is free. No one except, by coincidence
me." Truer words have never been spoken. It is an exact description of
Obama Care.Since I'm within 400% of poverty level, I'm
Worf, this is for people who get federal subsidies - which you complain
incessently about - and the more money they make, the less the subsidy - which
should make you happy!
Sigmund: ".Now we have an ideologically driven political realm where reality
and facts don't matter.". That's the point... Reality and facts
flew out the window long ago.
I think the word "surprise" is a questionable word to use here.
Obama's reforms are very very moderate and provide modest regulation of the
market...it is not a take over or socialist. The Facts are that we spend
200-300% more on our health care system than other industrialized countries and
our outcomes rank 35th in the world. All of these countries have either a single
payer governmental system or heavily regulated industry. These are the facts.
While people go on about adopting business model and having businessmen as
politicians what company would not adopt the best practices of other companies
that have 300% lower input cost? America used to a pragmatic country that looked
at a problem and made decisions that were practical and based on facts and
science. Now we have an ideologically driven political realm where reality and
facts don't matter. For facts on this check out the Frontline documentary
on PBS "Sick Around the World". It shows how systems in 5 countries
work. This is not a liberal site using liberal facts. It relies on WHO, UN and
governmental statistics to show we have the 35th best system in the world.
The President did keep his promise. He sponsored a health care plan that gives
everyone an opportunity to buy health insurance with group pricing designed to
keep premiums fair and reasonable, and tailored (for the working poor) to a
family's ability to pay. The administrative wrinkles and glitches in any
new program need time to work themselves out. If people earn a bit more than
anticipated, and have to give back part or all if the subdsidy the received,
they should be grateful for their good fortune and improved life. They are
still better off than when they had no access to affordable health insurance and
no subsidy to buy it.
"They're all free today, Cherry pie, Cream puffs, Ice Cream, Treacle
Tart. Here we are children, Come and get your lollipops, Lollipops, Come along
my little ones.Come along, kiddie-winkies!"The Child Catcher
from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.Oh how seductive are the freebees of
government giveaways and how great the cost to freedom.
What a shame! Many people, having been responsible with paying health
insurance, will be paying more.Obama! Why didn't you keep your