So 83% in Utah oppose homosexual scout masters while only 33% nationally? I
would bet the national number is closer to 50% since alot of the Southern
Christian-Protestant states (Georgia, Carolina's, etc..) oppose
homosexuality. The 83% Utah number is most significant simply because the LDS
churches heavy involvement in BSA. I think BSA understands the big picture now -
they lose major funding and participation if they elect to allow homosexual
scout masters. BSA would most likely die as an organization within a couple
years...or be changed into something else.
Our local scout leaders have a deformed conscience. If they think they can teach
Scouts to be kind and fair and loyal to others while excluding boys who are
"different," they are sadly mistaken. Bigotry does not belong in the
BSA is not only at risk of losing funding and membership if they do allow
homosexuals, but also if they don't. They are already losing big corporate
sponsorships and members in many districts because of their current stance. That
trend will accelerate if they reaffirm that policy. No matter what BSA does they
are going to take a big hit so the BSA board might as well disregard
everyone's opinion and just do the ethical thing. There is no path forward
for the BSA where they don't upset a sizable portion of their membership
and the public.
I took the recent national poll and wish it were worded a little different. Any
Scout who comes to the realization that he is gay should not be kicked out.
Having said that I am not in favor of gay scoutmasters.
Do I want my 12-15 year old son to go on a camping trip with an adult female? No
(high risk)Do I want my 12-15 year old son to go on a camping trip with a
practicing homosexual male? No (high risk)Do I want my 12-15 year old son
interacting with a pracitcing homosexual merit badge counselor? Fine with me as
long as it is just a functional transaction. (low risk). Not complicated in my
mind.FYI. Is not the Catholic church being excoriated (and paying
heavy fines) for covering up pedofilia yet some that would critize that are
willing to allow homosexuals to mentor youth on scouting trips? Hypocrisy. So
who pays when(not if) homosexual scout leaders start abusing boys. I would
assume the scout councils. If they pass this change, they better start putting
aside alot more money for abuses than they have historically.
After hearing the questions being asked in the survey I am surprised it
wasn't >90% in favor of the change... Those question were written to
get a specific response. Sounds like they didn't get what they wanted here.
@Irony Guy:I agree that bigotry does not belong in the Scout Law,
but unless they want to take out "morally straight" from the Scout Oath,
the BSA needs to stick to this policy. Mind as well take out "do my duty to
God" as well. My point is, if the scouts are going to profess to promoting
moral values and faith in God, then this policy cannot change. No one is
teaching the scouts to ridicule a homosexual child - just to see that
homosexuality is still a moral choice.
@patriot:I'm very surprised that the Great Salt Lake council
(Salt Lake City metro area) received this high of opposition. If this was done
in the Utah National Parks Council (Utah Valley and south) or Trapper Trails
(Ogden and north), we probably would have seen up in the 90% opposition range.
I'm one LDS member and long-time scouter that doesn't believe in
exclusion from scouting based on sexual orientation.
No kidding. Still, it's only a policy change. I doubt that there are a lot
of (any?) potential gay scouts or leaders in utah anyway.
I dont think my nieces should be camping with neighbor men.Similarly, not appropraite for a homosexual to be camping with young boys.this is all about commmon sense and protecting the boys.
Andrew,Do you know the difference between a pedophile and a gay
person? Why do you think an adult female going on a camping trip with your son
is a high risk? You need to look at the stats! The highest percentage of
pedophiles are married men. Pedophilia is a crime of opporturnity and control.
If a pedophile has the opportunity to be alone with a child (male or female),
they want the control that they can exert over this child. It is much different
than an adult that is attracted to another adult of the same or different
sex.Catholics are being sued for having PEDOPHILES that abused boys
and girls in their charges. Not for having homosexuals as their priests. If
they were just homosexual, there were other homosexual priests that they would
be attracted to. Please understand the difference or your children
could be in danger. Do not give pedophiles the opportunity to be alone with
them - whether they are heterosexual or homosexual. Learn and protect.
The issue is: Is homosexuality a moral issue? If you feel it is, then BSA is
justified in it's stand. Any organization has the right to follow their
own moral beliefs without someone say that they want to join them, but they want
them to change their moral beliefs to suit the person wanting to join. If
homosexuality isn't a moral issue then majority rules as to what society
I think we need to understand the difference between a person who is an active
homosexual and a person who is attracted to someone of the same gender. The
first should not be allowed in scouting, as such is a choice. The latter should
be allowed in scouting, insofar as he does not actively promote or participate
As a member of the church how in good conscience can we deny a homosexual from
leading or participating in scout activities? These brothers and sisters are
kind,loving and good people who are loved by our Heavenly Father.Get over it
I wonder what would have been the results if the LDS church had sent out a
survey on whether or not we should allow gays to attend church and hold
callings...My guess is that it would probably be about the same: 80%
against.Luckily, the church made their decision without any
consultation from the members and did what is loving, inclusive and right.I wonder what a young gay member who is living the gospel is supposed to
do while all the other aaronic priesthood holders are scouting? Does anyone
have an idea? He is being moral and truthful in telling his attractions, but
the church has nothing for him nor any role models of how he should live his
Why such a big deal? It is a private organization with high standards. Leave
I think that this decision will place a lot of organizations in a difficult
situation. If BSA allows active homosexuals to participate in scouting, would it
come to the point where it is not just an issue of allowance, but an issue of
forced acceptance? That is, for example, would churches that oppose
homosexuality be forced to take on an active homosexual leader on the grounds of
"equality?" It then becomes an issue of not just allowing homosexuals to
participate in scouting, but moreover to dictate the entire operation of the
Man I'd hate to be the teachers quorum advisor who when talking about and
preparing for the weeks scout activity each week in church has to remind little
Johnny that he's not invited simply because he's homosexual. Talk
about making an already difficult situation even worse. Remember the church
teaches us that being gay is not a choice and that only acting on it is a sin.
It's a shame that this is even a question. Homosexuality (or sexuality of
any kind) should not play a part in the Boy Scouts. The motto is to do your duty
to God and your country, as well as to be "morally straight."
There's no place in the BSA for any other "alternative" type of
What a fascinating coincidence. The Supreme Court is hearing Prop 8 and
suddenly dozens of elites are expressing support. Groups like BSA are
forced into the debate and the long knives come out for anyone willing to stand
up against the tide.For me the answer is still no. I suppose I can still
believe that in America, right?
Let me know what you decide and I will let you know if I keep contributing to
Message to gay scouts and scout leaders: You have 2 choices:1) you are
not welcome to participate in the Scouting program.2) Hide who you
are. Lie if necessary. A Scout is:Trustworthy, Loyal,
Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,Brave,
Clean, ReverentApparently not.
Andrew said, "Do I want my 12-15 year old son to go on a camping trip with a
practicing homosexual male? No (high risk)"According to Dr. Fred
Berlin, a Johns Hopkins University professor who founded the National Institute
for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma in Baltimore, Md.,
pedophilia is a distinct sexual orientation marked by persistent, sometimes
exclusive, attraction to prepubescent children.The US Catholic
Bishops commissioned a study on priestly child sex abuse from John Jay College
and researcher Margaret Smith reported to the Bishops:"We do not
find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of
subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now. In the book Mental
Disorders of the New Millennium (2006), author and from the same study
psychology professor Thomas Plante writes:"Although the majority
of clergy abuse victims are males, homosexuality cannot be blamed. First, many
of the pedophile priests report that they are not homosexual. This is also true
of many non-clergy sex offenders who victimize boys... Sexual orientation is not
predictive of sex crimes."cont.
The BSA claims to be a diverse organization with this statement coming from
their website: “Scouting is truly a melting pot. Scouts come from all
walks of life, all types of family units, faiths, and racial and ethnic groups.
The BSA respects the rights of people and groups who hold values that differ
from those encompassed in the Scout Oath and Law, and aims to allow youth to
live and learn as children and enjoy Scouting without immersing them in the
politics of the day.”The scout leaders polled in the recent
study mentioned don’t seem to hold these same values.
epic fail for Utah again! How is that people can not see that gay men are not
more sexual than heterosexual men? I know plenty of homosexual men who would be
much more trustworthy with your sons that some of these scout masters out there
right now.I have heard of plenty of scout masters caught for
molestation of young men, none of them claim to be gay. Perversion is not a
product of homosexuality, rather perversion is a product of ignorance to the
fact that all men are sexual and the ones who no one thinks would do such a
thing (heterosexuals with kids and a wife), end up being the ones that do such a
FACT:100% of men who have ever abused boys are either homosexuals or
bisexuals. This is be definition. The BSA and much of the public
is simply asking people to consider that the #1 priority is SCOUT SAFETY.Sadly we say from the Sandusky Penn State scandal how much damage one
homosexual pedophile can do. The great majority of gay people are likely good
people. However, just as most adult men are good people, that does not mean its
a good idea for men to be camping with neighbor girls. Scout Safety
is paramount here.Protect the boy scouts!
I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed, by the number of people here who
are automatically equating "morally straight" with having no same-sex
attraction. How does feeling attracted to members of one's own sex amount
to a moral violation or a sin?
The BSA would be wise to leave it up to the individual chapters as to admitting
gay members. However, it is a private institution so the BSA gets to make the
Re: "I have heard of plenty of scout masters caught for molestation of young
men, none of them claim to be gay."Yeah -- I've heard of
people doing time for burglary, shoplifting, embezzlement, etc. None of them
claims to be a thief. But the issue sorta speaks for itself.The
poster that spoke of not wanting her daughter to go camping with a male neighbor
is correct. The Church also prohibits female scouters from camping with boys.There's a reason for that. And, it's not bigotry.Just as there is also a reason for having an organization that allows boys to
be boys, learn important skills, and be instructed on being morally straight by
those with some experience in the subject. Without having to worry about or be
exposed to the shifting norms and nuances of sexual politics.If
Scouting will no longer be that organization -- OK. It's a private
organization that can choose its rules and bylaws.But it
shouldn't expect the Church or other similarly-situated religious
organizations to go along.
One day Utah will quit putting homosexuals in the same category as pedophiles.
Pedophiles are predators looking for victims. All those past scout leaders that
molested young boys, I bet they don't consider themselves homosexual. Same
sex orientation does not equate to pedophile. As an LDS scout
leader, it is hard to recommend an organization that discriminates based on
sexual orientation. There are so many safety precautions out there
in the scouting handbooks to ensure children are kept safe. Try following
those. Try having two-deep leadership. Why don't scout troops put an
emphasis on training their leaders instead of only on merit badges for their
kids? Parents of scouts should demand that their scout leaders watching their
children are fully trained before the safety of their children is jeopardized.
Let's go parents.
First off how many homosexual 12 year old's are there - really. I would say
you would be hard pressed to find ANY homosexual 12 year old boys period and the
reason is obvious - homosexuality is a developed behavior and not something you
are born with. Sorry but there is NO homosexual gene. Secondly the BIGGER issue
here is not the boys but the adults. Parents don't want ANY association of
homosexuality with their boys especially in the secluded confines of the back
woods. I'm sure you understand all the reasons for parents concerns so no
need to elaborate. The scout oath clearly states that a scout must be
'morally straight' which implies New Testament morality as taught by
the Savior as far as the LDS church and most other Christian churches are
concerned and not 'worldly' morality which has nothing to do with
sexual promiscuity. Being accepting does not imply abandoning standards.
I wish the LDS church would part ways with the BSA, regardless of it's
decision on this issue. Have LDS young men focus on the Duty To God program
instead. The BSA might have been swell in 1955, but it has outgrown it's
importance and appeal to many. I know this will anger all the "gung-ho"
scouter types, but the fact is, not all of us are the real outdoorsy type. In
fact, some of us hate hiking and camping. It's insane to me that this
program is still such a big deal.The BSA is top heavy in
"leadership" and their salaries are outrageously inflated. I say we part
ways as friends, & let them do what they will with the homosexual decision.
Problem solved.The LDS Young Women aren't involved in the Girl
Scouts of America, and they seem to be doing just fine. Better, one could argue.
The Young Men could still go camping, etc., if they wanted, where they could
focus on DTG goals while in the outdoors, instead of badges. They have
Foursquare on their iPhones for that, anyway.
Being gay gay, does mot make a person a child molestor
Why has sexuality even become an issue in Scouting? As a Scout we were too busy
at the age of Eleven thru Fourteen to even give sexuality a thought. We spent
our time learning skills and enjoying time together. This whole issue has been
blown way out of proportion by adults (joke) who have nothing better to do than
push a personal if not a political agenda. The vast majority of our youth at
this age could really care less and only want to continue enjoying their youth.
It is sadly gone to soon. Why don’t we behave as the adults we pretend to
be and allow our Children to grow up not hating instead of teaching them hate.
@Itsme2But, there's room in the church for a someone who's
sexual orientation is gay, but chooses not to act on those feelings? Using your
argument there is no room for anyone who is not honest, true, chaste, or
benevolent because we believe in being "honest, true, chaste, and
benevolent". And what about those that don't do good to all men or
follow Paul's admonition.Do you think that straight in the
Scout Oath refers to sexual orientation? I think it means something more than
that... it means being true. Don't you think that the boy that identifies
as being gay, but chooses to obey the law of chastity is being morally straight?
I think that such boys are among our most strong and valiant and I would want
them to be a part of my troop.
PA Rock ManAs far as BSA is concerned they can do what they want. As
far as the LDS Church is concerned they have a great back up plan minus BSA. The
LDS Church already has a great model for their young women that the young men
can step right into with the Duty To God award being the main focus so no big
deal really. It would be nice to continue with scouting but I suspect BSA's
days are numbered anyway with the PC world we live in. Scouting was fun while it
The arguments for and against gays participating in scouting can be applied to
other areas as well. What about young gay LDS men and women who
want to serve a mission? Many have served missions.Should the policy be
changed? Is it about behavior or who one is? Should the LDS
church adopt a policy that gay young men and women should not serve missions?
Or should there simply be standards of behavior--no promiscuity,
I'm a Scout leader and there currently are rules in place that
shouldn't allow any leader to be alone with any boy at any time. These
rules hopefully protect the boys regardless of the leader or scout's sexual
orientation.'morally straight' is part of the scout oath,
so do I need to start asking the boys if they have ever lied? or stolen? or
where does it end? Should we start excluding boys and leaders that have lied to
their parents? I've always thought this was an oath of what we
are striving for, not necessarily what we have achieved so far!
@Donn Bugg"How does feeling attracted to members of one's
own sex amount to a moral violation or a sin?"It doesnt.Similary, a man being attracted to women is not a moral violateion or a
sin.YETmost people agree men going on campouts with
young neigbor girls is a BAD idea.Again, poor attempt to play the
These Utah BSA leaders will all do what the LDS Church decides. If the LDS
Church continues to use Scouting as its program for Young Men, then these
so-called BSA leaders will fall in line. An opinion poll is therefore
This change would put the National in line with the way LDS units operate. The
LDS Handbook of Instructions directs that ALL boys inj the ward be regestered as
cub, and Boy Scouts. The program will not change as "sexuality" is not,
and would not be an issue.
@Lane Myer"I wonder what would have been the results if the LDS church
had sent out a survey on whether or not we should allow gays to attend church
and hold callings..."Everyone is allowed to attend church as
long as they do not disrupt those officiating and other worshipers. Same as
holding a calling as long as they do not practice or openly advocate the
homosexual life style. We are all sinners but we try to refrain from our
weeknesses. Same sex attraction is no different as long as it stays between the
individual, the Lord and the Bishop.
If you are a Christian, a follower of Christ, we should show love to all people.
If you believe the scriptures to be true then you must believe homosexuality is
a sin.As member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, we can only
love the "sinner", but detest the sin....that is what the Lord calls
I grew up around Gay men. My mothers 2 best friends were a Gay couple. Who
were together for 50 some odd years I might add. With all of the parties I
attended at their home with several Gay's and Lesbians in attendance I
can't ever recall a time when I was molested or even felt in fear of that
happening. I even traveled with them in their Motorhome on several occasions
with out my parents being there. Again, nothing ever inappropriate ever took
place. They were dear family friends and wonderful moral people.Any
one should be able to reason out the fact most homosexuals are not pedophiles
just like most heterosexuals are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are pedophiles
weather Gay or Straight. One has any thing to do with the other.The
BSA is a private organization they can make any rules they want. I just hope
clear minds prevail and they do the right thing.What would Jesus do?
@patriot"So 83% in Utah oppose homosexual scout masters while only 33%
nationally?"If I understand the article right I think the 83% is
scout leaders in Utah while the 33% is anyone nationally. I suspect the national
scout leader number is probably on the order of 50-55% rather than 33%.
Pedophiles are statistically men. Perhaps men shouldn't be allowed to be
camping with children, male or female.
@ patriotThere are literally thousands of testimonies from
homosexual people who said they knew they were gay at a very early age. Just
because you don't personally know any homosexual 12 year old kids does not
mean they aren't out there.
Claudio: You are obviously unaware that the Church does not run the scouting
program. The Church does however, sponcor some units.
As a practical matter, non-practicing homosexual youth are not being excluded
today from Scouting. If he has only told his bishop and/or parents, it's
confidential and probably not public knowledge. If he has "come out" to
his fellow teens, odds are that he is not being chaste any more. Of course,
exceptions exist.But it's not like the Scouts are hunting down 14
year old boys dealing with SSA. Openly gay scoutmasters and assistants,
that's a little more problematic...
Lane Meyer: As a poster stated that all are welcome to come and worship.
However, what you failed to state and what is very much practiced is those who
have same-sex attraction may be fully fellowshipped as long as they remain in a
chaste lifestyle. This goes the same for an individual that is heterolsexual as
well. However, if the individual who has same sex attraction is living the LBGT
lifestyle they will not be allowed to attend the temple, hold callings. In
fact, if a person is living the gay lifestyle and wants to join the church they
must first repent and forsake that lifestyle before baptism would even be
considered. THe same is true for a couple who are co-habitating. They either
get married as defined by the Lord, which is between a man and a woman, or they
must remain celibate. Boys and men with same sex attraction are
already acting as scout leaders and scouts in the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day Saints. However, if they start acting upon that attraction they will
be asked to quit attend scouting activities and be released from their callings.
It is so interesting. Everything is fine as long as I agree with the prevailing
viewpoint of the group pushing for the change. When I disagree with their
viewpoint then I am a bigot or intolerant or perhaps something worse. Why is it
wrong for me to disagree with a viewpoint when I feel it compromises my moral
values? Isn't there prejudice on both sides of the fence? Why do special
interest groups feel it only goes in one direction?
The issue, of course, is whether an individual troop should be allowed to set
its policy on gay Scouts and leaders. This wouldn't force individual Utah
troops to change their current policy. It merely allows a choice.In
Utah, however, we're not real strong on allowing free choice when it comes
to religious beliefs. Last fall in Highland, for example, city voters were asked
whether individual businesses should have the right to choose for themselves
whether to disobey the 4th Commandment by opening on the Sabbath. Voters said NO
I grew up going through the Scouting Programs, Cub Scouts, Webelos, Boy Scouts,
Explorer Scouts and we had gay members. The boys all knew who they were and
guess what it didn't matter. They were our brothers in scouting, it was
never a problem, one even became our Senior Patrol Leader. To exclude certain
individuals because of their orientation is morally wrong. It is time for Utah
to step into the 21st century and be accepting of those who might be different.
It's time to teach & practice tolerance.
I'm sure no one cares about my opinion of everyone else's opinion, but
oh well.. here it is:I would not feel comfortable with an openly gay
scoutmaster with my son, but I do not believe he would be at any greater risk of
being abused, sexually or otherwise--Most likely less at risk, in my opinion.
I think it is silly to state that little Johnny in church would feel
left out when he doesnt get invited to scouts because he is gay... The question
is regarding openly gay, or avowed gay men (as the survey says), and if a young
man in the church were openly gay, then he would already feel left out by the
other boys, I guarantee it---Even though it is wrong and the church's
policy is against it, the boy would be ridiculed relentlessly. This does not
mean that a young man who is confused about his emotions/feelings cannot be
involved in scouts. But if he had a 'boyfriend' and everyone knew it,
I think his involvement in scouting would be the furthest thing from the
parents' and leaders' minds.
@ironyguy...so if you don't agree with the GLBT movement, you are a bigot?
This is what bothers me about the movement in general. If straight people say
they prefer straight, then they are called names of hate and bigotry. Temples
are defaced, buildings are burned and names are called. Civility
needs to exist for commonality in purpose to exist. I am one who agrees with
the current BSA policy. I agree with what is "morally straight." I do
not agree that my feelings make me a hater or bigot in any way shape or form and
it offends me greatly to be called as such.Sadly, the GLBT movement
will bully it's way and leave a wake of hate behind them. I respect those
within the movement who seek understanding and not discord. Unfortunately, that
is not going to occur. The majority of people under 30 prefer a "who
cares" policy and so it won't be long before all laws are changed and
straight people will be in the minority. In the mean time, right is still right
and understanding is something we should seek for.
DNews "Most Utah Scout leaders oppose BSA gay policy change"No kidding! What a surprise! Most of them probably still like
guns, though!Just sayin'
I suspect that if the BSA chooses to accept so-called GAYs, especially gay
leaders, the Sustaining Membership drive will be hard pressed to collect enough
donations to keep the BSA afloat.
Snowman,I am perfectly aware of the LDS Church's involvement in
Scouting. I didn't need the correction, as I didn't err.
IA Cougar --" if you don't agree with the GLBT movement,
you are a bigot?" Simple disagreement doesn't make anyone a
bigot. But attempting to deny a group of people their constitutional rights
does.As for the vandalism and name-calling, there is plenty of that
on both sides of the issue. But I bet there's not many straight people who
have been beaten to death just for being straight, or who have been fired from
their jobs just for being straight, or who have been kicked out of their rental
homes just for being straight. All of these things, and many more, have happened
and continue to happen to homosexuals. Just because they're gay. It's
only natural that they should get a little bit upset about such things.
There are two questions, and it's important to distinguish them: 1) Should
we allow gay scouts and/or leaders; 2) Should we allow scouts and/or leaders (of
any sexual orientation) to promote homosexual behavior. Let's be clear,
admitting you are gay doesn't, in and of itself, encourage a homosexual
lifestyle. Even inside the LDS Church (and many others) there is a clear
delineation between thought and action.I don't have a problem
with my son being around gay scouts. I don't have a problem with my son
being around gay scout leaders. My primary concern is that my son spend time
with people and groups that support and respect the belief system taught at home
and at church.Regardless of your opinion, let's calm down the
rhetoric. Having a standard about (any type of) sexual behavior does not make
people or an organization "bigoted." Allowing gay scouts and leaders
isn't the same as allowing pedophiles. I'd like to think we are past
Re: "Simple disagreement doesn't make anyone a bigot. But attempting to
deny a group of people their constitutional rights does."What a
typically bigoted liberal statement!In real English, it translates
as -- "Disagreement doesn't make you a bigot. Disagreement with ME
makes you a bigot."Nothing in the Constitution guarantees
extension of marital rights or other special protections of immorality, or those
choosing to engage in it. The Supreme Court has ruled as much in the past, and
will shortly do so again.Hopeful liberal elevation of immorality to
the level of a virtue and a Constitutional right does not make it so.Suggesting anyone's a bigot that disagrees with that erroneous liberal
legal position certainly DOES constitute bigotry, however. Or maybe,
ignorance.But, certainly not legitimacy.
I think that some fail to understand the meaning of the concept morally
straight. It is being interpreted as synonymous to the use of straight vs gay.
Straight is a word meaning on a straight path, moving forward, holding to a
direct course. One can still be morally straight and still be gay.
@chris bAs ECR has already proven your "FACTS" don't square
with a scientifically confirmed reality even when you type I.n all capitals.
If it is inappropriate for a heterosexual man to sleep in a tent with teen
girls, then it is inappropriate for a gay man to sleep in a tent with teen boys.
'Nuff said. Let's move on, folks.
"...that ye love one another as I have loved you". when we think of
people in terms of labels such as "gay", "atheist", etc., how
easy it becomes to stop seeing each other as children of God. How easy it
becomes to stop seeing everyone for who they really are. It sure makes all our
arguing seem so trivial and insignificant doesn't it?
I will withhold any support of the BSA if they change their policy.
For those concerned about what "morally straight" means.Should adults who have been divorced be allowed to be leaders?Should
adults who have committed adultery be allowed to be leaders?How about
those who have cheated on their taxes?How about adults who
occasionally drink alcohol or drink coffee daily?Guess it all
depends on how we define "morally straight"
None of this matters. BSA will do what it is prepared to do.
The methods used to determine the facts on which this story is based are
seriously flawed- leaving aside the issues of rights and evil. The following
comment in no way breaks the rules of posting on this page. How many Mormon
scout leaders are going to publicly state they favor letting gay boys into
scouting? A young Mormon woman was recently not given the opportunity to serve
a mission because she stated she was in favor of equal rights for gays. How
many scout leaders would be called into the bishops office if they publicly
questioned church doctrine on this issue? Please don't block this post. If
you do could you explain to me how it breaks any guideline thanks
RBN, you're ascribing beliefs to me that aren't fact just to stir up
controversy. I stand with the LDS Church on this issue. I did not say there was
no room for chaste people regardless of sexual orientation. The thing is if a
person is identifying themselves as gay, then they want their sexuality
recognized. There is no room in the BSA for this kind thing. If a gay person is
chaste and forever plans to be and wants to be in the BSA, then they should keep
their sexuality out of it completely.
You hit the nail on the head, Meadow Lark Mark.
Personally, I don't think it's the "openly gay" ones we need
to worry about. If someone is going to prey on young boys, they are
not going to advertise it... gay or not.
Re: "A young Mormon woman was recently not given the opportunity to serve a
mission because she stated she was in favor of equal rights for gays."Unlikely.Since such a position agrees entirely with the
position of the Church, she would not have been excluded from missionary service
for adhering to it.If, on the other hand, she repudiated Church
doctrine, suggesting that practicing LGBT are doing nothing wrong, or that they
should be allowed to marry same-sex partners in the Temple, why would she even
want to represent the Church, and why would the Church select her as its
A civil society requires trust that can't be mandated. A majority of
mothers out there want their boy in a safe environment where he can't be
influence by those whose beliefs and actions are contrary to their own. Mess
with mother, goodbye Scouts!
Why aren't men allowed to be Girl Scout leaders and camp with girls? Sexual
attraction.Why aren't women allowed to be Boy Scout leaders and camp
with boys? Sexual attraction.Why shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to
be scout leaders and camp with kids? Sexual attraction.Yoo-hoo! Anybody
paying attention to common sense?
Re: thunderbolt7There are women who work at BSA camps and spend the
night. Does that defy your common sense argument?Maybe my
experience was unique, but I never had a scout leader sleep in the tent with me
or any other youth. The only exception was if the scout was the son of the
leader. I never hear anyone worried about incest in the Boy Scouts. By the
logic suggested by some on these boards, maybe we need to be.
I have a problem with the word "bigotry" being used with this issue. To
my understanding, bigotry irrational disagreement with another person based
solely on different characteristics of the group or individual in question.I do not nor have I ever seen the BSA teaching hate against any group of
people outside of their own organization. The NRA does not appreciate members
in their organization who are opposed to complete gun bans - that doesn't
make the NRA bigots. The BSA excluding individuals who do not recognize or
cooperate with their long established by-laws is not a hate inspired act. The
BSA was not formed, a hundred years ago, to either promote or judge a
person's sexual orientation. Their bylaws were established to promote
strong character and standards in the young men who chose to join their
organization and were willing to accept each and every oath and directive of the
organization.As far as I understand this situation, the BSA is not
trying to eliminate gay scouts, unless they outwardly oppose scouting values so
much as to restrict gay leaders - and that is their right to set the boundaries
of their organization.
"Why aren't women allowed to be Boy Scout leaders and camp with boys?
Sexual attraction."Our troop has women leaders who absolutely go
on campouts. A bit of self control goes a long way. I am pretty
sure it works that way for those who are gay.
I am currently the Deacons Adviser in my ward. It is these demeaning attitudes
toward homosexuals that made it difficult for me to accept the calling. Why is
the church so intermingled with a secular organization?
I don't want my children influenced by gay people. I don't have
anything against them but that lifestyle is not acceptable by God. And if
it's not acceptable by God why are we accepting it as a society and
"If it is inappropriate for a heterosexual man to sleep in a tent with teen
girls, then it is inappropriate for a gay man to sleep in a tent with teen boys.
'Nuff said. Let's move on, folks."It's also
inappropriate for a heterosexual man to sleep in a tent with teen boys.
It's a rule the scouts live by and stand firm on--separate tents for the
scouts and the scout masters.
@ Mike123,Perhaps you should do some research into why the LDS Church
chose to affiliate with BSA over their own brand of scouting in 1913, and have
endorsed it ever since. Every Prophet since then has supported it, and their
statements are clear why. The values of Scouting reflect the values of the 13th
Article of Faith. The Methods of Scouting are the very tools needed to raise
capable and worthy young men to go on missions. Tell me sir, do you question
the Prophets in other matters too? BSA isn't demeaning anyone. They have
membership standards and are currently examining those standards. The Church
has membership standards, the military has membership standards. If you cannot
or will not adhere to them you are free to disassociate yourself. Let things
sort out, let the Prophet speak and then you can make your own decisions. I
have already made mine and I will be here no matter what the decision may be.
I was a boy scout. In 64 years I have met and known gay and lesbian people and
couples from every walk of life and every state I have lived in. I'm not
gay but honestly, I have never known a gay or lesbian person I didn't like
or have had a lot of respect for. Lets give this silliness up, we have much
bigger fish to fry.
Seems like most of what we are hearing in the news these days revolves around
gay rights. The institution of marriage is be attacked in the Supreme Court and
now our youth are under attack on the Boy Scout front by gays demanding that we
give up our rights for what the see as theirs. What has happened to the
protected family values that we had in our country?
I think this entire issue is a farce. I’m sure that there are many men
and boys who are gay who are currently participating in the Boy Scouts of
America without a problem. That is NOT the issue. No one is trying to exclude
any group—as the liberal forces are trying to make us
believe—because gays are already participating in the Boy Scouts. The
issue is this--the gay movement wants validation. They want to promote their
gay lifestyle—not just be included as they already are. Why do they have
to force their agenda and their way of thinking on an organization that stands
for high moral principles? It is one more destructive tactic that is eroding
our society. And lest you think I hate gay people—I don’t. I just
don’t believe they have the right to force their agenda on society.
Apparently they don’t want to just blend in. So if they want to flaunt
their sexual orientation, be identified and singled out, let them start their
own gay BSA.
It's strange that male homosexuals are vilified, yet lesbians are all about
being inclusive in the Girl Scouts and that's OK?There is no
war on women,,, It's a war on the male species.