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Comments about ‘Timothy R. Clark: Pornography has no true believers’

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Published: Tuesday, March 19 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT

[And what shall we say about pornography? As New York Times writer David Brooks observed, "If your kid spent a lot of time reading Maxim and watching rap videos, you'd know in your gut that it was damaging to his soul."]

Neither of these are what most people, outside of the Middle-East and North Korea, would consider "pornography".

This article illustrates why we keep pornography legal in this, and every G8 country, because what one person thinks is tame, another thinks is scandalous. That's the nature of free speech.

[Our craven, postmodern society is blatantly sexist and degrading. We worship at the altar of tolerance — including tolerance for things that should be intolerable. We've even silenced feminists who no longer decry their own objectification.]

Sometime try looking up which countries allow/disallow pornography. For the most part, countries in which pornography is legal have high human development indexes, democratic governments, women's rights, free speech, and educated populations. Countries that prohibit pornography are usually at the bottom of every list, like North Korea and Libya.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

I'll politely disagree. I dont' find myself identifying with the author at all. There are lots of different kinds of people in this world, yes, even kinds you may not like because you are sexually repressed, like some pornographers.
Certainly I'm not saying the industry isn't full of problems, but what industry isn't? And furthermore who is this guy to judge those who choose to work in the porn industry?

Flashback
Kearns, UT

It's too bad that the protectors of the First Amendment don't give the same respect to the Second Amendment. My guess over the years is that some of our more infamous serial killers have killed more people over the years than Columbine, Sandyhook, Virginia Tech, and Aurora combined. And all of them started with porn.

LVIS
Salt Lake City, UT

Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT
"Countries that prohibit pornography are usually at the bottom of every list, like North Korea and Libya."

What an enlightened comment. Because, as we all know, pornography is the sine qua non of all great democracies. Yes, if only North Korea and Libya permitted pornography.

Utes Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

I agree 100% with the author's comments. The amount of tolerance for the indecent in society is utterly shocking. However, on a personal level, if someone you know and love has an addiction, let's have hope and help for those addicted and refrain from unrighteous judgement.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

To those would defend the pornography industry:

So you would be comfortable with your spouse, child, grandchild, brother, sister or other loved one participating in the industry?

If one of them came to you for career guidance, you would recommend the industry?

If they procured a role in a movie or spot in a magazine, you would buy a few extra copies and encourage your friends to see it as well?

You think that the career would benefit them over time and make them a healthy, happy person? That it would benefit their own marriages and children as well?

If you have doubts as to any of these, then why would you encourage someone else's loved on to participate?

You don't encourage anyone to participate? You certainly do if you buy it in any form. You thereby send a signal to the markets to produce more and to enlist more people into the industry.

If you think pornography is good, then it should be good for those closest to you. If it is not, then think carefully about those who are in it now.

Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT

LVIS:
[What an enlightened comment. Because, as we all know, pornography is the sine qua non of all great democracies. Yes, if only North Korea and Libya permitted pornography.]

It does seem to be a commonality, though, doesn't it? All the G8 nations (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, United Kingdom, and United States of America) are major producers of pornography. It's also legal in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Turkey, Israel, New Zealand, Poland, The Czech Republic, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Austria, Hungary, Taiwan, and South Korea.

Countries where pornography is illegal? China, Cuba, Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Mali, Nigeria, Kenya, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, and Indonesia.

So I guess you need to ask, would you rather live in one of the countries where pornography is legal, or illegal?

Freedom and progress appear to go hand in hand with pornography. A nation that suppresses pornography also suppresses intellectual freedom, technological innovation, and human rights.

Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT

Twin Lights,

I wouldn't suggest to my own family/friends careers in fast food, garbage removal, extreme sports, or combat positions in the military. I support/use these services, but wouldn't participate or suggest participation.

However, I can't say I would be disappointed if a loved one started a successful pornography production company. If they had to participate in the industry early on, but later moved into successful producing/directing/management/support positions, I think that would be acceptable as well.

Some jobs are fine for the short term, but not for the long term. A lot of people work terrible jobs in the service/vending industries to put themselves through school, which I find acceptable, but there are some who only seem to aspire to being a professional waiter and I would suggest they have more ambition.

Many porn stars have made this move from participation to management as small business owners.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

I don't see much room for common ground here. I don't find the 1st Amendment inconvenient, even when people use it in a way I never would. One of the most precious rights we have in this country is the right to disagree.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Mukkake,

I would easily suggest at least a beginning career in fast food for my loved ones. And, if that truly is where their heart is, it can lead to a good job/career. My dad was in the military and I have friends who have been/are. I understand the risks, but I am proud of them and would recommend it for those so disposed.

You are talking about PRODUCTION of pornography (the folks behind the scenes). Let’s stick to the actors/models. Many very successful actors/models in mainstream media have no affinity for or interest in the production side.

So please consider, would you be happy with your loved one being an actor/model for pornography as a career? Would you encourage their participation? Would you be proud of them and ask your friends and other family members to support their career by purchasing and viewing their work product? That is, when your young loved one comes to you and you think “what a good looking kid” would you then actually suggest to them a career in pornography to trade on those looks?

Please be serious and answer the direct questions posed.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

“Why do we keep ambushing ourselves as a race? Where's our sense of duty to each other?”

First, because sex is the second most important driving force of life. Starting with the young people, it becomes a search for answers to the secret world hidden from us by our adults. Then it becomes the exciting and wonderful experience that is better than eating. In adulthood it may change a little but it seems to never go away.

Second, because of the first reason, it is commercially valuable. It can make the advertising of the most dull products exciting and interesting. One might ask, where does pornography leave off and advertising begin? Sex is pounded into our senses at every opportunity by billboards, newspapers, and other media.

Solutions have to include education and truth from the early awakening for children and a new look at advertising. As one who suffers daily by the overload of advertising, truth and reality would be a good change.

Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT

Twin Lights:
[Please be serious and answer the direct questions posed.]

I did, please read it again:
[If they had to participate in the industry early on, but later moved into successful producing/directing/management/support positions, I think that would be acceptable as well.]

If it launches them into a successful career than, yes. Not as a permanent career, just like fast food, gymnastics, or combat aren't acceptable to me as permanent careers.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Mukkake
Salt Lake City, UT
If they had to participate in the industry early on, ..., I think that would be acceptable as well.

I think I appreciate your tolerance and acceptance, but you and I have a vastly different view on what we would be proud of our daughters doing.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

There are women in marriage who turn cold or very cool. At this point the man has these choices. 1. Put up with it, 2. Ease the pressure and stress by viewing other women undressed, 3. Seek the company of another woman.

Given that choice 3 is an option, and the fact that many men aren't willing to put up with choice 1 for too long of a time, the case can be made that viewing pornography can and does help prevent infidelity and save marriages.

There are women who are very hurt that their husbands view pornography. If these women are loving wives, they they have a case. If not, they need to be aware of the root cause of their problem and deal with it.

joe5
South Jordan, UT

cjb: I'm stunned by your comment. You would make the pornography viewer a victim? You would absolve him of all responsibility for his own bad decisions by blaming another person? Doesn't that make him, in essence, a slave? Doesn't that mean someone else is in control of his life?

Is there anything more cowardly than a person who will excuse his weaknesses by blaming them on someone else?

Of all the comments made on here, and there were plenty of inane ones, this was by far the most offensive.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Re joe5

There is one other choice, divorce. Which of the choices that I pointed out would you recommend?

Pops
NORTH SALT LAKE, UT

You forgot "counseling".

The unfortunate thing is that pornography is not speech - entertainment of a vile sort, perhaps, but not speech. I don't believe we have an Amendment protecting "free entertainment". I don't believe there is a natural right to produce or peddle "entertainment" that the community believes to be harmful. It's unfortunate that we don't have judges who are intelligent enough to distinguish between entertainment and speech, or who aren't willing to wade into the conflict between those who wish to preserve decency and those who wish to destroy it.

I'm also pretty sure that pornography consumption is not what led to the industrial revolution.

I like what Ben Franklin had to say: "Sin is not harmful because it is forbidden, but it is forbidden because it is harmful."

jeanie
orem, UT

Twin Lights - I agree with your comments and completely understand your questions to get others to think.

Those that seen porn as a viable business and a right of our freedom of speech do not share our views about the sacredness of life and the value of the individual. To compare participation in the production of porn to waiter jobs and serving in the military and collecting garbage and then lumping them all together as "services" is pretty indicative of this fundamental difference.

I agree completely with the author of this article and appaud his clearly stated views.

The fact that we are free to choose in our nation does not make all choices equal. We are free to make destructive decisions as well as enlightened ones. Comparing free countries to oppressive ones is not impressive.

Ella
Salt Lake City, Utah

Thank you for telling it like it is.

wrz
Pheonix, AZ

@Utes Fan:
"However, on a personal level, if someone you know and love has an addiction..."

I think we need to stop talking about (i.e., condemning) the user and turn the discussion to the producer. And I don't mean the guy in the back room with a cigar in his mouth and clicking away with a camera. I mean the people who take their clothes of for the camera. And who might that be? Women of course. 99 percent of pornography involves naked women. Therein lies the real root of the problem... the elephant in the room that no one pays attention to.

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