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Comments about ‘In our opinion: Gun laws and reality’

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Published: Thursday, March 14 2013 12:00 a.m. MDT

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hobbes1012003
Kaysville, UT

This is proof that all this gun legislation that the federal government is pushing on us has nothing to do with preventing gun violence but pushing their own agenda. someone has plans that start with gun legislation and it certainly isnt preventing gun violence.

ECR
Burke, VA

"If one accepts the Brady Campaign's diagnosis, one would have to presume that California is a firearms-free paradise, while the lawless, gun-riddled streets of the Beehive State feature shootouts every dawn out in front of the local saloon."

I really don't think that is what the Brady Campaign is implying with their diagnosis. And I don't think even the DN Editorial board would use those words to describe life in California. The Brady Campiagn has a single purpose in mind and that is to restrict the use of fireamrs in hopes that it will decrease the number of gun deaths in our country. The NRA has a seeminglty opposite mission which is to eleimninate all restrictions on gun ownership. Both arguments should be considered by the legislative bodies that govern our nation when determining what should be done to change a tragic pattern (one that continues with the report of a gunman killing four people in upstate New York just yesterday). The shooting death of a state trooper here in Virginia last week reminds me that even a good man with a gun often can't stop a bad man with a gun.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Sometimes the stats are used erroneously to make a point.

People look at some places with strict gun laws (Chicago perhaps) with high crime rates as proof that gun laws don't work.

In reality, many of those "strict" gun laws came into being BECAUSE of high crime.

Crime and gun violence is generally higher in areas with high poverty. I would submit that Utah does not have lower gun violence BECAUSE of its gun laws but because it was not a violent place to begin with.

We need to take an honest look at potential gun laws with an open and honest mind.
They cannot all be summarily dismissed by gun advocates.

In the same light, not all proposed gun laws should be supported without an honest review to determine their potential effectiveness.

We need both sides to push for reasonable laws that accomplish a common goal.

Unfortunately, the nature and divisiveness of anything to do with guns typically precludes "reasonableness" on both sides.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

It need to be noted that many of the politicians who are actively working to take away our gun rights are themselves protected by guns. They either have guns themselves or have guards who have guns.

The NRA was criticized for pointing this out when they produced and then showed an ad illustrating this which stated ... Politicians want the protection of guns for themselves, and gun free zones for everyone else.

If gun free zones, calling 911, or uninating (to protect against rape) are good enough for the common people, then politicians ought to be restricted to this themselves.

It is very important that the ruling class be subjected to the same laws as everyone else. This is the only way many of them will have the required empathy to be able to understand the needs and wants of those who they rule over.

vern001
Castle Rock, CO

Obviously, gun laws alone aren't enough to eliminate gun violence. But imagine what a place like California would be like if it had Utah's gun laws! Clearly, what works in a state with a large Mormon and rural population is not going to work in a much more populated and urban state with a large drug and gang problem.

To say that gun control laws don't work because California has tougher laws and more crime is a very reductionist and simplistic statement that ignores a whole host of other reasons why there is more gun violence in California.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"It is very important that the ruling class be subjected to the same laws as everyone else. "

Did you notice that the Republican National Convention prohibited "everyone else" from bringing in guns? I think that makes a lot of sense and completely understand the logic.

But, it is in direct conflict with the point that you are making.

Wonder why the NRA did not highlight THAT hypocrisy as well......

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Joe Blow. All you need to know about guns and crime is to understand that cops carry guns to protect THEMSELVES, not you!

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Re JoeBlow

No I didn't notice, but thanks for pointing this out JoeBlow.

Maybe you did or maybe you didn't notice that during the election I was doing everthing I could to get President Obama re-elected. I am a pro-gun Democrat.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

cjb.

I am a self proclaimed pro gun independent.

I fully support peoples rights to own guns. And I would protest in the streets if guns were banned or confiscated.

But, I do not support peoples rights to own any gun and carry it anywhere, anytime as many suggest.

I think it is reasonable to have background checks, even though it wont stop all bad people from getting guns. Gun training is also reasonable if you intend to carry it around others in public.

I don't want to live in a wild west type society where everyone walks around armed.
I don't want guns on airplanes. Or in bars by those who are drinking.
I am not fearful that the government will come after me.

I believe that people should be held accountable when they leave their loaded gun laying around and a 6 year old dies because of it.

I am sure that many will claim that I am not pro-gun at all because I believe that the second amendment allows some restrictions.

To me, this is not a Republican or Democratic issue.

We need common sense to prevail.

It is mostly lacking.

one old man
Ogden, UT

I'm not anti-gun. But we do need some common sense safety rules placed on guns to try to reduce their use in mass shootings and other common tragedies.

Extremism on both sides is nonsense.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

If UT is so safe why are UT legislators pushing to relax gun laws in UT--allowing anyone to conceal carry?

CA might have a higher homicide rate--but UT has a higher rate of death from firearms when suicides are included.

Los Angeles has an extremely economically and ethnically diverse population of nearly 4 million--about 1 million more than the number of people living in UT. That CA's homicide rate is not higher is due in part to its gun laws.

More guns does not mean more safe. A trained policeman hits his intended target 1/3 of the time. When the police officer is being fired upon his average drops to less than 20%.

Owl
Salt Lake City, UT

Preventing gun violence is not likely. Reducing or minimizing gun violence is a reasonable goal and all parties should work toward that end. In Cook County (Chicago) with its strict laws, gun violence is partly the result of readily available guns in adjacent counties. Utah legislators should remember that this is not Tombstone, AZ circa 1890 and make laws accordingly.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

Way to draw conclusions while looking at just two states...nice cherrypicking you've got going on there.

Dynarider84
Reston, VA

@ECR
All I have to say is look at Kennesaw, GA. The good guy will not always stop the bad guy your correct and we all know that, but that's not the point. The point is that If the guy or lady who commits the crime thinks before hand "maybe I will get shot, or what if the other person has a gun?" IT's the fear factor it stops many criminals from commit crimes, but if you take them away like in California, Chicago, and Detroit the criminals don't have a fear other the the police(which the police are to affraid of going into their communities) So they do what they want.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "I'm not anti-gun. But we do need some common sense safety rules placed on guns to try to reduce their use in mass shootings . . . ."

You're anti-gun.

There is no "common sense safety rule" that can possibly reduce the use of guns in mass shootings. There are just too many guns out there, and those conscience-free individuals who will ignore the law and engage in mass shooting are extremely unlikely to be worried about draconian gun laws and penalties.

Suggesting we try such rules anyway merely reveals an anti-gun animus.

What is needed is for politicians to stop demagoguing this issue and leave off persecuting those of us willing to protect ourselves and our families from the violence that secular liberalism has unleashed on modern American society.

ECR
Burke, VA

dwayne - I'm sorry you misinterpreted my comments to mean anything other than we all need to stop the hyperbole and start getting serious about finding a solution to this tragic circumstance. I'm definitely not talking about taking away guns lawfully purchased by responsible citizens and I'm not advocating anything other than a reasonable discourse on what can and should be done that will make our children, indeed all of us, safer, at least to some degree. If you are suggesting that I would reject the notion that nothing can be done then you are right to do so. The only thing that will guarentee that nothing changes - or that it will get worse - is for us to shrug our shoulders and say nothing can be done. The people in upsate New York and the State Trooper in Virginia were killed because the wrong people had access to a gun. I don't know how to change that but I can guarentee that until we stop digging in our heels, on both sides of the issue, those sad headlines will be seen over and over again, perhaps even more frequently.

Dynarider84
Reston, VA

@ECR
Again Just a few deaths from guns is not news breaking stories, if it wasn't a gun it would be something else, see now Obama wont tell you that he himself has personally allowed bombings from Drones that have killed thousands of inocent people. YOU CAN NOT MAKE LAWS TO PREVENT THINGS, WE NEED STRONG LAWS THAT HURT THE PEOPLE THAT COMMIT THOSE HEINOUS CRIMES. Thats like saying to prevent coffe spils they ban the sale of coffe. I have a RIGHT to own and bear arms to protect myself from our own government. When they tell me I can not purchase a gun that just "LOOKS" Like theirs and then they keep them and are buying up all the ammo for them(Obama has increased the ammunition purchases)Then there is something sinsster going on.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . this is not Tombstone, AZ circa 1890 . . . ."

No, it's not. If it were, we'd be a lot safer than in latter-day LA, Chicago, Washington, DC, or Detroit.

And that's primarily because people took responsibility for their own defense, not assuming the government could or would do a better job of it.

It should probably be noted, as well, that the famous OK Corral shootout took place AFTER enactment of a strict gun-control law [at trial, the Earps and Doc Holliday successfully claimed to be enforcing an 1881 gun-control ordinance], and was the direct result of a government attempt to disarm citizens who believed they needed arms for their own protection, and who had been given a "permit," of sorts, to do so by County Sheriff Johnny Behan.

So, if history is prologue, attempts to disarm America would quite probably plunge us into chaos.

Dynarider84
Reston, VA

@JoeBlow
And the reason is because your scared that other people have a firearm which in time will prevent many criminals from commiting crimes. I say stiffen up the Laws to people that commit the crimes not just a slap on the rist. other than that you have no right to tell any other person what they can and can not own, say, or do. Every person can and WILL do what they want thats the freedom of life. so just make it show that if people choose to do the bad things that they will not enjoy it at all and then bam they wont do it(after they have seen others get the stricter sentences) I also say get TV's and commercial foods and snacks out of prison its not a resort its a Prison!

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Chicago, New York, Washington D.C. --

I love how ultra-conservatives refuse to use logic and practical reasoning of cause and affect.

For example --
Those areas may have a higher gun crime per capitca than Utah. granted.

But have they ever thought about how many MORE violent gun crimes would have been committed WITHOUT those tougher gun laws?

They SAY it's a break down of Society,
But the DN Editorial Board has bought into the NRA lie of more guns equal less crime.

Makes about as much sense as more alcohol equals less drunk crimes,
or more pornography equals less sex crimes.

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