seriously?And how much more per gallon would you be willing to pay?
Dont drive your car then. Don't heat your home with electricity, USe
polluting wood stoves, don't work for someone that uses them. I am glad
there are refineries so we do have electricity and fuel.
That should be cheap and simple.Put them in Uinta Basin. They all love
drilling there, let them deal with the pollution.
Refineries are unlike other businesses and employers because they send their
product primarily by underground pipeline. Moving very far could be
prohibitively expensive, driving up the cost of fuels for the entire region.The sentiment has merit - move the polluter. But to where? The point
is, it can't move just anywhere.
First, you need to look at the topographical differences between Utah and
Wyoming. Then, you have to remember that when the refineries were
built, they were away from people - if people don't want to live by the
refineries (or the prison for that matter) they should have moved somewhere
else. Also, you should realize that the refineries don't
pollute because of their location, they pollute because of what they do - moving
them to a new location is not going to make them stop polluting. @
higv: Really? The author doesn't like the location of the refineries in
Utah (because he thinks they are an eyesore) and from that you get that he is
opposed to using fossil fuels? That's quite the stretch......
Refineries cost billions of dollars - that's one reason there have been no
new refineries built since the 1970s.Ernest,are you willing to
pay $4000 per gallon to finance the cost of moving the refineries?
I feel the writers pain.... but really? Those refineries have been there as
long as I can remember, far longer than living in places like Farmington was
cool. They used to be nicely tucked around the corner away from Salt Lake.Problem is people move to where these refineries were already. And not
they don't like them. Same thing with the prison and airports. They knew
these things were there when they bought their homes. They are all pretty hard
to miss. To ask that they move... ummm... seems a bit odd.As to
comments that no refineries have been built... true... but many have been
expanded and have had their capacity increased. So while true, not completely
I'm guessing there is less than zero chance of a refinery being willing to
relocate--unless someone else foots the 3-4 billion price tag. In
2005, the head of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association testified
at a House hearing that the rate of return on investment in refining averaged
just five and a half percent from 1993 to 2003.(Factcheck)
Sorry for the hammered post... that is what happens when you try to post using
your smartphone... you would think I would have learned this lesson already.
Appreciate you all reading through the lines to figure out what I was so poorly
trying to say.The real issue that the refiners will not talk about
is that many of these assets are very old, and in some cases very hard to keep
stable. Part of what I do is to apply math to figuring out where the greatest
chance of failure is. These companies are spending millions to make sure
accidents don't happen - because when they do happen, the cost is very
high.Additionally, refiners are being mandated by the EPA ( I know,
the evil EPA ) to clean up their acts. Even the smallest emission is being
required to be monitored. Those refineries are probably running cleaner than
While most, if not all of the refineries built in Bountiful existed before the
current residents moved in, they were NOT built before Bountiful existed. It was
the second settlement in Utah after Salt Lake City and was settled in 1847.
Before the combustion engine and cars were in use. The South Davis area was the
second area settled by the mormon pioneers. So lets not pretend they put the
refineries in some unpopulated area. By the time these refineries were built
there was a good sized population in that area.
No, let's let the refineries stay here in this soup bowl. Instead,
let's move the entire population of the Wasatch Front to Wyoming where the
incessant winds will blow all our exhaust fumes away.
with the formal mob based adoption of the 'drill, baby, drtill' energy
policy, we've forfeit any chance to be fussy. Oil exploration and
processing, we've decided, gets priority over everything, all the time. I
don't mind a refinery upstream of my house, and you owe me the same.
That's the deal we made with ourselves in the name of drill baby.
Since when does proximity to a refinery determine or even have influence on the
price? Folks the sooner we learn how gas is traded and the greed involved, the
better. Whether the refinery is located in bountiful or vernal, the price will
be the same. Whatever you folks are willing to spend. And yet our politicians do
absolutely nothing to regulate them.
Noodlekaboodle - really? That area has been home to the valleys industrial base
for a dang long time. And yes, of course Bountiful was there - but no one said
it wasn't. When those refineries were built there was whopping 8,000
people - total - living in the area. I am willing to bet not many of them are
the ones complaining now.
All those who moved into the area AFTER the prison and/or Refinery was built
should be assessed a special tax that would pay for the move - construction of
the new facility - and any ongoing cost increases over what they are at the
current locations, for the life of the new facilities.These folks want
them moved - while they moved to the area knowing they were there. Let them pay
for the moving. Should do wonders for their property values.
I know, move the refineries with the prison to another location. You could save
millions by forcing the inmates to do the labor since we all know everything
will be done on the government's dime on behalf of private enterprise. Then
you could sell the land off at 10 cents on the dollar and claim a coup on behalf
of Gary the Gov or the next guy. Of course if you don't like it you could
take your home, employer, and the rest of your life and move. You should have
known you were subject to inversions and it's health consequences in 3rd
grade. Sorry folks but adding to the natural inversions are not required and as
was said previously gasoline is a commodity with prices dictated by speculation.
For the record, a new refinery has not been built in anywhere in this country in
the last 30 years. The permitting process would take at least 10 years and then
would be tied up in court for another 10. And that would be a streamlined
process. The cost of building a new refinery is also cost prohibitive. When
one adds the permitting process and the cost of construction of new refinery and
you have a project that will never happen. We won't get into the
permitting and cost of construction of new pipelines to move the crude, as well
as the refined products. It is easy to say let's move something like a
refinery. The reality of it is why it does not happen.