Why they invited her I'll never know. It's no great loss.
Interesting how every so many years this discussion and issue becomes hot
button. Much of it comes back to what we believe the definition of morally
straight is. If the BSA changes that to include homosexuality so be it, if they
continue to hold to their '91 memo so be it. As many people
(both hetero and homo sexual) have expressed we shouldn't try to change
something just because its different. The Boy Scouts are different from other
organizations and we should accept and appreciate that, regardless of whether it
fits into our box of personal beliefs. Diversity is what makes the world a
great place to live in.I applaud those who stand up for what they
believe and don't back down from what they feel is right.
@John --"Gays have always been welcome in both the Boy Scouts of
America"That's simply not true, John. The 1991 policy memo
clearly states that "homosexuals do not provide a desirable role model";
and the current official position is to "not grant membership to individuals
who are open or avowed homosexuals". Those statements don't say
"people who practice homosexual behaviors". They simply say
"homosexuals". Those "undesirable" homosexuals could just as
easily be celibate. The policy doesn't acknowledge any difference between
practicing and non-practicing -- it specifically condemns the attraction
itself.Obviously, the BSA has the legal power to set their own
membership policies, since they are a private organization. But that
doesn't mean it is morally *right* for them to discriminate in this way.
Heck, even Mitt Romney disagrees with this policy. He has specifically stated:
"I feel that all people should be able to participate in the Boy Scouts
regardless of their sexual orientation".Fortunately, the man who
is expected to be the next president of the BSA's national board (Randall
Stephenson) also opposes this discrimination, so with any luck it will be ending
in the near future.
John C. C.Very well put.
Gays have always been welcome in both the Boy Scouts of America and in the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So are alcoholics, porn addicts,
hetero-sexuals, kleptomaniacs, etc., as long as they adhere to the standards of
both organizations, which include moral cleanliness, an acceptance of a duty to
God, and other behavior standards. I, for one, even worship a God who "was
in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)The difference is one's choices, not one's inclinations.
@David --Of course the Boy Scouts does not admit girls -- it is the
BOY Scouts. Also, it is the BS OF AMERICA -- not the BS of Britain. And British
boys are -- you guessed it -- in Britain. ;-) However, the BSA is NOT called the
"Straight Christian BSA"; it is the BSA, period. The BSA is
intolerant not just for excluding gays, but also for the **reason** they do so.
As stated in a 1991 BSA policy memo: "homosexual conduct is inconsistent
with the requirements in the Scout Oath that a Scout be morally straight and in
the Scout Law that a Scout be clean in word and deed, and that homosexuals do
not provide a desirable role model". IOW, they specifically believe that
homosexuality is immoral and that homosexuals are undesirable human beings. They
could insist that being black is immoral with just as much justification -- IOW,
none. THAT is intolerance.Incidentally, BSA membership has dropped
by almost 20 percent since the Supreme Court BSA vs. Dale decision. Multiple
major corporate sponsors have pulled out specifically because of the BSA's
policy of discrimination. Even the Girl Scouts and 4-H clubs don't
discriminate in this way. Only the BSA.
Amazondoc,An organization can establish its own requirements for
participation. This does not define them as bigots. I doubt anyone would argue
that girls should be entitled for admission into the BSA. Likewise, British
boys would not be admitted in the BSA. British Boy Scouts have their own
Scouting organization. Girls have their own Scouting organization. It is not bigotry to exclude girls, or British boys from the BSA. Other organizations also establish their own requirements for participation
and involvement and are not guilty of bigotry. Bigotry has been
defined as the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their
prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the
basis of a person's race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity,
national origin, religion, language, socioeconomic status, or other status.Simply excluding someone for any of the above mentioned reasons does not
necessarily make the organization bigoted. Rather it is the state of mind, the
emotions of hatred, intolerance, contempt.I have never seen hatred,
intolerance or contempt exhibited by the BSA towards gays and have been involved
for over 30 years with the BSA. Gays could start their own Scouting
@ amazon doc Thank you@ lost I received my Eagle Scout
many moons ago and went on to be an assistant scout master for several years. No
one ever was concerned about mine or any one else's orientation. I am also
old enough to remember when certain religious organizations threatened to dumb
the scouts if they refused to comply with their particular brands of beliefs. So
you can tell me I am wrong all you want I lived it .
@ Lost in DCDear Lost,What I (I'm speaking just for me) usually
feel for some conservative positions could be define as "derision".
Unfortunately, some conservative positions are too harmful not to consider them
I only hope that entertainers who do support BSA are not then blacklisted by the
rest of the Politically Correct world. Remember what used to happen to any
artist who dared go to South Africa to perform. Tolerance in the PC world is a
one way street.
@David --From the American Heritage Dictionary: "The attitude,
state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance."From Merriam-Webster: "acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot" --
bigot: "...especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as
a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance "I, for
one, would welcome Christians and/or folks of any religion, or ethnic group, or
sexual orientation, into any group or club I might belong to or organize. And
yes, I'd even welcome Boy Scouts -- after all, my own father was an Eagle
Scout in his day. Unfortunately, the BSA are not nearly as tolerant
as I am. They refuse to tolerate an entire group of people simply because of
their inborn sexual orientation, regardless of the actual **character** or
**actions** of those people. Yup, intolerance. Apply whatever synonym you
Baccus, George, look up the definition of bigotry and explain how the BSA fits
this definition. Then ask yourself if the BSA meets this definition in your
opinion, how you would also not fit the definition for your position regarding
Baccus,you mean what libs show to conservatives?George,the BSA had that code LONG before being associated with any religious
organization. They were not co-opted by anyone.
@ David: you wrote:"Yep I agree. It is too risky for a business
and public figure to associate and openly support an organization that promotes
service, citizenship, advancement, the outdoor code of environmental
appreciation and preservation, respect, trustworthy, loyalty, friendliness,
courteousness, kindness, cleanliness, bravery, reverence, obedience,
cheerfulness, thriftiness,...." ....and bigotry. Don't
@davidYep, I agree, to bad the Boy Scouts have made the choice to allow
certain religious groups to turn their organization into yet another platform
attack the secular world. And allowed their holy war to overshadow the good work
they are capable of.
Scoundrel,Yep I agree. It is too risky for a business and public
figure to associate and openly support an organization that promotes service,
citizenship, advancement, the outdoor code of environmental appreciation and
preservation, respect, trustworthy, loyalty, friendliness, courteousness,
kindness, cleanliness, bravery, reverence, obedience, cheerfulness,
Obama10 -- If Obama doesn't attend the Jamboree, he will be just like GW
Bush, who attended only one of the two while he was in office, or Ronald Reagan
who did not attend any.Now what was that you said again?
Jepson who?I could not care any less.
I am not a professional entertainer. If I were, I would offer to take those
This just shows the stupidity of these entertainers who claim they did not know
what the BSA stood for.
So I agree with most of the comments that argue that both the BSA and these
groups get to make their own choices but I have to wonder if these same people
will feel the same way if the BSA does decide to change their policy to include
gay people. If not then how is your insisting they do not change different then
those that insist they should?
I rely like the idea [We the people by the people, and for the people]. I would
not attend a birthday party if I wasn't invited. If it was my birthday
party I would want to invite who I want. Every one is welcome to come or not
it's by invitation only.
So, did the BSA suddenly change their policy? No.This is just a publicity
stunt by the performer.
I dunno...dropping Carly Rae Jepsen seems like a reward for the Boy Scouts, not
a punishment.Drop me maybe?
I agree with the other comments, but I was curious as to having the rock concert
at the National Jamboree? I have never been, but have always wanted to attend a
National Jamboree, and wouldn't have ever thought of a rock concert being
part of the experience. I'm sure President Obama, who as President, is the
Honorary President of the BSA, will probably not attend either, just like four
Hold to your values BSA, even if you have to stand alone! Let those who disagree
make their choices along with the consequences.
Carly Rae and Train have every right to decide when and where they will perform
and should be commended for standing up for their personal beliefs. The BSA
should be afforded those same rights and commendations.
Everyone has their right to participate or not. I am one of the silent majority
of Americans that commends the BSA for sticking to their principles and adhere
to the "Physically Strong, Mentally Awake and Morally Straight" Oath!