@procuOnce again I live in greenwhich village not the Bronx and yes
I am saying we do not have urban sprawl, sadly there are sedentary areas of my
state that have Suberban sprawl which is the condition that exist in the salt
lake valley. Again come and visit but may I suggest anyone that does leave the
Utah adattude at the door and you will have a much different/ better experience.
New Yorkers are very nice people but have little patients for rude people.
Re: ". . . would you please learn the meaning of the terms you are using . .
. ."Anything for you, sweetie.But, need to educate
you about someone who suggests there are no ghettos or freeways in Europe,
rundown neighborhoods in Israel or Egypt, or urban sprawl or commuting gridlock
in Japan. All that stuff was alive and well last time I was there.Someone who'd disingenuously suggest we should "drop" American
exceptionalism is selling something. Something rotten.Don't buy
it. I've lived in other socialist "workers'
paradises," -- the former Yugoslavia, Bolivia, Hungary, Bulgaria, and the
states of Washington and Virginia.Same problems there.I
admit, I've never been to the Bronx, but I hope you're not suggesting
there's no gridlock, sprawl, or ghettos there.Ya' see,
I've been all over the world. I live in Utah by choice. Because it's
NOT a dull, gray, rundown, soulless, eurosocialist "workers'
paradise."Like liberals are aching to make Utah.
Ah yes, the old "head in the sand" approach.
@procuI know I have asked this before but would you please learn the
meaning of the terms you are using "urban density" (New York City) and
"suburban sprawl" (the vast majority of the salt lake, weber and utah
county valleys) are to very different things so please try to stop equating
urban density with sprawl. airnaut is right you really should visit some of
these places so you can begin to understand the differences. Come to NY visit
greenwhich village where I live meet the people it really is nothing like you
procuradorfiscalTooele, UTRe: "They [apparently speaking of
Europe, Japan, Egypt, and Israel] do not suffer from the ghettos, rundown
neighborhoods, and endless urban sprawl and commuting grid-lock with vast and
taxing freeways and interstate projects."You've apparently
never been to those places.============ Not only been
there, I've lived in many of those places.When will you
conservatives drop the American exceptionalism?America is a pretty
great place, but far from perfect and having ALL the answers.There is alot
we can learn and adopt from other places.We would be wise to gleen
the best of truth, no matter where or what the source.
Joe Andrade wanted to write another letter about the looming danger of
catastrophic global warming but knew he'd get laughed at after the cold and
snowy winter we're having. So, he went to the doom and gloomers'
second favorite topic: OVER-POPULATION. Fact is, the western world
is facing much more of a threat from having low fertility (replacement) rates.
Russia and Japan are in trouble due dropping fertility rates also. The U.S. has
dropped below replacement rate of 2.06 (in 2009) to 1.96 (2011). Western
Europe, Russia and Japan have even lower rates that this. Joe should
worry less about "sustainability" and start thinking about what will
happen in the world when there aren't nearly enough young people to care
for aging populations.
Re: "They [apparently speaking of Europe, Japan, Egypt, and Israel] do not
suffer from the ghettos, rundown neighborhoods, and endless urban sprawl and
commuting grid-lock with vast and taxing freeways and interstate
projects."You've apparently never been to those places.It's interesting that liberals' main causes these days all
center around control -- gun control, population control, marriage control,
morals control, academic control, environmental control, information control,
healthcare control, asteroid control, crop control, open lands control, and, of
course, the topic of this article -- growth control.Liberals must be
in a constant state of exhaustion, carrying around that awful burden!
They've clearly come to believe they're the only ones smart enough and
capable enough to control the universe. And they apparently fear that, if they
let go, somehow we'll all die.Exhausting!
Ultimately, this letter is calling for population control and the restrictions
of personal and religious freedom that go along with it.
Salt Lake is a sad example of urban growth.Take for example down
town.In most major cities - London, Paris, Washington D.C., Seattle,
etc.Anything with a famous landmark is protected.Paris can not
have building over 4 stories tall to protect the Eiffel Tower and the Cathedral
of Norte Dame, Seattle skyscrappers must be at least 1 mile from the Space
Needle.Wahsington D.C. can not have buildings over 4 to 6 office level
stories in heighth.Salt Lake city used to be recognized World-wide
for the LDS Salt Lake Temple.It is now just another tiny dot dwarfed by
capitalistic icons of Babylon - Banks, Law offices, Shopping Centers and
Condominiums, etc.The gentiles were right building the Capitol up on
the hill over looking the vast Valley.It appears Government and Capitalism
metaphically overhadow the establishment of Zion now.
growth is not the problem it is about smart growth. the problem in Utah is
suburban sprawl not population and industrial growth. believe it or not you can
actually survive without your .25 acres sole patch of grass. Urban density
allows you to park your car, actually get to know your neighbors, reduce
pollution and preserve open lands. come to NY see the blue sky, the lush green
foliage, walk the neighborhoods (which yes you can do very safely), take the
short ride by train out to the forest that border our great city or better yet
enjoy the the thick and beautiful foliage of central park. urban density is not
...and, Could someone please explain to me why Utah doesn't have
building codes requiring 2x6 minimum exterior walls and triple paned windows
[reducing energy comsuption by 50-75%] for all new home construction like other
states with even less temperature fluxuations do?
LA has the best and most advance freeway system in the Country and has it solved
their traffic problems? Is building more roads the answer?
It amazes me while traveling to other coutries who have been around since the
Holy Roman empire, the Japanese Samuri, the Pharoahs and Holy Land of Christ --
they recycle, re-use, and improve upon existinng buildings and housing.They do not suffer from the ghettos, rundown neighborhoods, and endless urban
sprawl and commuting grid-lock with vast and taxing freeways and interstate
projects.People in Utah turn their noses up at old houses, and
old houses are considered anything made only 10 years ago.It's
a pride thing quite frankly, and we should all know what happens to those
caught up in that Pride cycle.
Procura says: "Yeah. Just let it happen willy-nilly. Let the traffic
deteriorate even further. Make sure we have LA-style gridlock every day. And,
turn Utah into a Detroit-style abandoned cesspool."Isn't
that exactly what the Utah GOP is doing right now?
Re: "Please do not plan for nor otherwise facilitate or encourage
growth."Yeah. Just let it happen willy-nilly. Let the traffic
deteriorate even further. Make sure we have LA-style gridlock every day. And,
turn Utah into a Detroit-style abandoned cesspool.That'll keep
out all the "undesirables" [meaning that evil human
Clean and green is the only growth in Salt Lake Valley now and in the future to
avoid health problems to children.
I agree with this in many ways. But there are a few problems. Our economy is set
up such that endless growth is required for it to be considered healthy.
It's the behavior of cancer. Static or declining population levels have
economic consequences. The other problem is religiously driven
family sizes. Religion is a powerful motivator, and one that causes adherents to
turn a blind eye towards any consequences and realities that run counter to
doctrine. So if they believe their god wants them to have "a full
quiver" of children, that is what is going to happen regardless of the
associated crowding, pollution, or resource scarcity. I know people like this,
wonderful & nice people, but the adverse consequences of their large family
sizes doesn't even show up on their radars. The one bright spot
is that population growth tends to decline over time in educated prosperous
countries. So eventually we'll level off. Whether that happens before the
Wasatch Front turns into another smog-infested, overcrowded, overpriced,
water-poor mess like Los Angeles is anyone's guess.