SwissThe government caused this issue. The issue was WW2 was being
fought and wage control was instituted to control inflation. In order to compete
for workers businesses started to offer health care insurance. As for
malpractice insurance, it was negligent doctors and hospitals that caused the
need for that product. Not trial lawyers.The rest of the free world
institutes some for of single-payer system. These systems are able to cover the
entire population and to do so out at a less expensive cost. Our nation spends
more than any other nation on health care but we still cannot cover all our
citizens and we get worse results. As a fiscal conservative I find this to be a
shameful waste of our national treasure. There are better ways to implement
health care reform in this country but to many right wing ideologues rather
whine about "socialism" and do nothing.
WRZ: "Get rid of Obama and Obamcare." How will that fix anything
economically? I realize it will make you feel immensely better, but what will
that accomplish. The price increased in health insurance are on a 20 year
upsurge. What will you do to stop it? Can we agree that unless something stops
it there will soon be a time when Warren, Bill and Mitt will be the only ones
who can afford it? Math is math. The free market is free to continue the same
Mean spirited attacks should be left to the right wing media. Those poor people
have to repeat what they said for four years for another four years with an
improving economy and a President more popular than ever. Health Insurance is
law and in ten years these letter will be a source of humor.
Mabe we ought to look back at how we got into this mess. The federal cost
controls on wages forced businesses to find another way to attract scarce labor.
It seemed that health insurance was a good idea at the time. Once someone else
was paying the medical bills people lost.track of what it was costing. Then the
trial lawyers invented malpractice insurance and medical code started spiraling
even higher.So, i have to ask if government made this mess.how can we
expect it to clean it up.There has to be a better way.Any ideas.
@Grover:"What is going on in Ogden this weekend?"I
have no idea. I don't live there."I have never heard that
number..."Try goggling. I did and got this... 'Families to
Pay at Least $20,000 a Year for Insurance Under ObamaCare, Says IRS.'"What would you do to reverse the trend?"Fire Obama
and repeal Obamacare."The only standard answers given
are..."There's another... called 'death
panels.'Or, take Obama's suggestion and just go home and
take a pain pill if you're elderly and need major medical procedures."Elementary School Question: 'What is wrong with this
picture?'"Ans: Get rid of Obama and his Obamacare.
To "Eli Tesecular PhD" tell me who is more greedy. You have the poor
who demand tat you pay or their care, giving them low cost housing, medical
care, and food. Or the rich person who gives to the poor or else hires them to
work for him?Your ilk claims that all of the social welfare programs
help the poor, but, as the black community can attest to, your programs only
suppress and keep people in the poverty cycle.You are giving he poor
a pass on being greedy and laying hold of your money.
Insurance companies are not robbing anyone they are providing you a service
after you use there product. Is the grocery store robbing you when they take
your money after you purchase there food? HOw can you say someone is robbing
you when you choose to use there services?
Healthcare costs have risen the past three years at a rate slower than any other
point in the past half century.
The medicaid expansion covers those who make more than the current medicaid
limit so they are all workers. Fact is someone in America has to do the crap
work that doesn't pay all that well. Someone's gotta be a trash
collector. Someone's gotta be a janitor. Someone's gotta pick crops.
Alfred asks: ""... but i'm worried about the uninsured single
mother."How did she become a single mother? Did she think it
through carefully or just stumble into her mess? Are we supposed to indemnify
her poor judgement?"... the widow with diabetes..."Widow I can see. But what about the diabetes? Much of it is preventable and
mostly caused by improvident living, over weight, poor diet. Are we supposed to
indemnify her for her poor judgement?"It's pretty apparent
Alfred is limiting his thinking to include only possibilities tossed out by hate
radio.Could that single mother have become so because of her
husband's death -- or because he was an abusive drunk?And is he
absolutely sure that 100% of all diabetes cases are the fault of the person who
has it?It is this kind of all or none thoughtlessness that makes
progress nearly impossible.
wrz says: "Not to worry. Obama has plans to fix that by killing health
insurance companies... which Obamacare is designed to do."And I
say, GOOD! Let's at least kill or reform the blood sucking industry it has
morphed into today.
Alfred - Your simplistic interpretation of government run healthcare systems
runs counter to the government programs fund in virtually every industrialized
nation in the the world expect one - ours. Those other countries use a wide
variety of methods for providing healthcare to their citizens and none of them
are based on providing maximum profit to insurance companies. Every aspect of
our lives, even in this "capitalistic" society of ours doesn't have
to be, and in many cases, shouldn't be provided by the private sector. The
insurance industry is the perfect example of the hypocrisy of private
enterprise. "Oh let my company provide that service to everyone and keep
the government out...well, that is until the risks get too big. People who are
really sick? Let the government provide insurance for them. I'll just
cover the healthy ones. Building houses in a hurricane zone? Let the government
provide insurance for them too. Just let me make money. Let the government
take all the risk" Calling that capitalism is a pathetic example of
What is going on in Ogden this weekend? Major meanie convention! Where to
begin...let me make only this point since they won't read past the first
few lines anyway:WRZ says: "Health insurance premiums are
expected to go up about $20,000 per family. Is that more cost effective?" I
have never heard that number but for the sake of argument, let's say it is
accurate since insurance premiums have been going up at above the inflation rate
for 20 YEARS NOW (Obama was still in college). You are the President: "What
would you do to reverse the trend?" The only standard answers
given are: 1. Put caps on medical malpractice claims. 2. Sell health insurance
across State lines. Three States have caps and their cost have not come down.
Selling Insurance nationwide is something currently banned by the States Rights
folks...the same ones that hate Obamacare. The rest of the world has national
health care where citizens don't begrudge others getting care AND they pay
less than half what we do! Elementary School Question: "What
is wrong with this picture?"
@Ultra Bob:"My wife would probably give up eating before giving up her
cell phone."I think people who lived before cell phones, ipads,
and cable TV did alright. I should know."Poverty is caused by
the economic system."If you want out of poverty, work hard and
smart and you'll likely make it."The economic system is a
fiercely competitive game where there are winners and losers. Losers live in
poverty."It's the worst system in the world... except for
all the rest (to quote someone)."All wealth is created by the
physical or mental efforts of people."So, if you want out of
poverty or don't want to get in it... be sure to train yourself. Many poor
don't."The most flagrant case of some living off the work
of others is the businessman who buys labor low and sells it high."What? That only happens when labor is abundant... such as now when we are
flooded with alotta immigrants (legal and otherwise). When labor is scarce the
opposite of your example occurs. It's the job of our politicians to see
that the labor force stays at optimum levels.
@embarrassed Utahn!:"Attitudes like this really helped me choose my
moniker. Today I'm an extremely embarrassed Utahn."You can
solve that problem by moving to another state... or perhaps another country.@omni scent:"... but i'm worried about the uninsured
single mother."How did she become a single mother? Did she
think it through carefully or just stumble into her mess? Are we supposed to
indemnify her poor judgement?"... the widow with
diabetes..."Widow I can see. But what about the diabetes? Much
of it is preventable and mostly caused by improvident living, over weight, poor
diet. Are we supposed to indemnify her for her poor judgement?".. my religion teaches me that we should help the poor and
sick..."I doubt if your religion tells you the government should
provide for the poor ans sick.@ECR:"So what is it that
insurance companies do for you and me?"What you need is the
government to provide all your healthcare needs... something like Obamacare...
That way, when you get to be old, say past your expected life's length, and
need a hip replacement the government can tell you to go home and take a pain
@Eli Tesecular PhD:"They have no idea of how many people in our
society are unable to work due to medical conditions such as PATSS (productivity
averse traumatic stress syndrome) and...LIB (labor induced bipolarism)."I got some of that... PATSS and LIB. I went to work and didn't
like it interfering with my free time and fun. So I went on unemployment
welfare. Feeling alot better."And why do they always bring up
cellphones and cable TV? These things have become essential for the pursuit of
happiness, which as I recall, is guaranteed by our Constitution."I don't see 'pursuit of happiness' in the Constitution nor cell
phones or cable TV in there, either. Where you getting this stuff?@one old man:"Every American... has been handing a whole lot of
'free money' to the health insurance industry for far too
long."Not to worry. Obama has plans to fix that by killing
health insurance companies... which Obamacare is designed to do.@Hutterite:"And it will do it more cost effectively."You're kidding...? Health insurance premiums are expected to go up to
about $20,000 per family. Is that more 'cost effective?'
Patti and several posters are wrong! They do not pay for insurance...they pay
insurance premiums. Anyone who collects on a claim is getting it from other
peoples premiums (funneled through the insurer). None of us can afford a large
loss, but companies pay them every day...because not everyone makes a claim. So
don't get so sanctimonious please.
If we stopped continually getting into wastefuland unnecessary wars,
ensuring that even thepoor among and their children get the healthcare they need would be more affordable.
The problem with too easy welfare is just that, too easy. Voting for Democrats
is easier than working for a living! Dependency is a bad thing!
Most poor people are hard workers. This is where theterm working poor
comes from. They have jobs thatdon't pay very much and that have very
goodbenefits.These people deserve to have a decent life too
justlike the rest of us. Any country where corporateexecutives are
allowed to take tens or hundreds ofmillions of dollars per year can
certainly affordto see to it that all of its people, including itsworking poor and their children get decent healthcare.
People who complain about the good life lived by poor people have probably never
lived the life of poor people. Or if they did, have totally forgotten what
it’s like not to be free from want. My wife would probably
give up eating before giving up her cell phone. As I recall before we got cell
phones, internet, cable TV we could eat out more often. Probable
facts:Poverty is caused by the economic system. The economic system
is a fiercely competitive game where there are winners and losers. Losers live
in poverty. Government is the umpire. it’s job is to provide
and enforce rules that make the game fair for all. It often provides free kicks
or free throws to penalize the offending players. Anyone who eats
and otherwise consumes the benefits of our civilization is a tax payer.
Consumers, rich or poor, end up paying all taxes. There is no 47%.All wealth is created by the physical or mental efforts of people. The most
flagrant case of some living off the work of others is the businessman who buys
labor low and sells it high.
"...more people need to step up and take responsibility for
themselves."I can easily say, without question, that I have not
used more for healthcare related costs than I and my employer have paid in
premiums, and I have diabetes and was just treated for cancer. There are others
in the world who are more healthy than I am who are really getting the shaft.
And it's not the government that's taking your money from you. It is
the insurance industry. How many multi-millionaires exist among the executives
of the insurance industry? And they made this money how? By taking your money
and giving to a healthcare provider. Just trading dollars. And don't get
me started on the small percentage they pay to the healthcare providers compared
to what they are billed.So what is it that insurance companies do
for you and me? Their number one job is to make money for their stockholders.
Some good comes from that because they have programs that encourage those who
pay the premiums to stay healthier. Why? So they can make more money.
I'll say it again, healthcare as a for profit industry is just wrong.
Attitudes like this really helped me choose my moniker. Today I'm an
extremely embarrassed Utahn.
Why weren't those freeloaders just born with money!? Those grifters
probably voted for Obama too!I'm sure cellphones are full of
nutrition! They should just eat those phones! Lousy grifters! Living the good
life off other people's generosity!It is lucky for those
grifters that Utah is so full of generous christlike people!
Pati, you are correct in saying "The Feds only get what they take from
taxpayers". 10% of this expansion will come from our state taxes, and 90%
from our federal taxes. But here is the catch: we have to pay that 90% weather
the state accepts the expansion or not, except if not, the state gets nothing to
show for it.I'm grateful for the insurance that I have, but i'm
worried about the uninsured single mother, the widow with diabetes, or the
college student that gets diagnosed with cancer. It is your own choice to decide
not to help out, my my religeon teaches me that we should help the poor and
sick, without judging them (Book of Mormon Mosiah 4:16-18, New Testament Matthew
A recent article in a newsmagazine pointed out how medicaid keeps costs down by
only paying hospitals for real costs, not the obscene inflated prices they
charge the rest of us. We need single payer health care and providers that are
institutions of our community, not for profit organisations, to get health
spending under control. It's not free, and no one says it is. But it would
cover all of us, including the handicapped, unemployed, elderly, and various
other deadbeats the letter writer is worried are getting something he
isn't. And it will do it more cost effectively.
Someone has been listening to too much hate radio. There is very little factual
information in this letter. Every American -- not the government -- has been
handing a whole lot of "free money" to the health insurance industry for
far too long.It's time to change that.
And so Patti, there is something wrong with someone who also works hard and can
afford 30 dollars a month for a cell phone so they can keep track of their kids,
but can't afford an insurance payment of 500 dollars a month because they
work at a minimum wage job. And heaven help us if that same person actually has
a tv, and I'm sure the end is near if they have both and...dare I say a
computer. All of which cost probably 500 dollars purchased over a protracted
period and costs 50 dollars a month to operate. How dare they.
I find it shocking how callous and greedy the right wingers in this country have
become. Their selfishness is supported and encouraged by talk radio and Fox
News. They have no idea of how many people in our society are unable to work
due to medical conditions such as PATSS (productivity averse traumatic stress
syndrome) and various other forms of LIB (labor induced bipolarism). And why
do they always bring up cellphones and cable TV? These things have become
essential for the pursuit of happiness, which as I recall, is guaranteed by our