Comments about ‘Letters: Create own organization’

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Published: Thursday, Feb. 21 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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isrred
South Jordan, UT

"But do it on your own dime"

Seriously? The BSA and its largest promoters (LDS Church, Methodist Churches, etc) are some of the most tax exempt and thereby heavily subsidized organizations in the country. The BSA, nor its main supporters, definitely did not build it "on their own dime".

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

"Tax-exempt" does not mean "publicly funded". If the government wants to replace every charitable organization with a tax-payer funded charity, let them try. Does anyone really think that with the government's overhead, any tax-payer public "charity" would ever succeed? Just look at how many people government has helped to get out of welfare in the last eighty years.

Good people all over the nation volunteer their time, their money and their resources to help boys become men. Unfortunately, a very small percentage of the population thinks that they have the right to change anything that doesn't allow them total access to our youth.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

isrred

yes, they did.

JoeCapitalist2
Orem, UT

to liberals like isrred, unless the government decides to take a big chunk out of something in taxes, then it is "heavily subsidized".

So when I choose to give $100 to the Red Cross for disaster relief (after I paid about $60 in taxes on $160 earned to leave me with that $100), the fact that the government does not take another $30 or so bite out of my donation before it reaches the victims makes the Red Cross a heavily subsidized organization that is getting a free ride on the taxpayer dime.

Did I get that right?

ECR
Burke, VA

The problem with Mr. Soulier's reasoning is his assumption that the people who "donate their hard-earned money, their precious time, talents and anything else" or who "purchase land for camps" and develop handbooks or build their own buildings and pay "full-time executives and recruit an army of volunteers" are exclusively not gay. Just like the military and professions from every walk of life, gay people have served and performed in those organizations for as long as they have been organized, but they have done it while hiding their sexual orientation because of social pressure. I lived and worked in the Salt Lake Valley for the first 12 years of my professional career and in my line of work I had significant interaction with gay people. I think most residents of Salt Lake would be somewhat surprised by the size of Salt Lake/Utah's gay community. And all this time they have been doing the same things other cisitzens have been doing, including joining and serving the Boy Scouts.

Mr. Sourier and others can promote a separate Gay BSA but I hope they won't be surprised when the "Non Gay BSA" starts to lose members.

omni scent
taylorsville, UT

Mike, you ask who the government has helped get off welfare in the past 8 years? Me. I was on unemployment for almost 3 months after the 2008 recession hit. Without that welfare I wouldn't have been able to pay my health insurance for a pre-existing condition. Without COBRA laws frok the government, I wouldn't even have had the ability to keep my insurance after getting laid off.
Thanks to that help, I was able to look for a job instead of fretting about insurance and my health. I found a good job quickly. I'm anet positive tax payer, having paid back more then what I took from the system, and I am happy to do so. No man is an island, we all need each others help from time to time, and I am happy to contribute my part.

omni scent
taylorsville, UT

I don't think anyone wants to create a "Gay Scouts", rather a scouting organization that is all-inclusive. After all, the Supreme Court has told us that "Seperate but Equal is inherently unequal"

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Sort of like what the Nazis did in Germany. They put a star on those they wanted to target for their hate.

The notion of separation of Americans by state, religion, race, and for what ever other reason, is not in compliance with the American creed of “One Nation Indivisable, With Justice for All”.

I think the benefits of Scouting are desirable and needed by every boy in America, regardless of the other affiliations he may have. And they tend to bring America together rather than divide her.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Charity for profit is not charity.

Curmudgeon
Salt Lake City, UT

Omni Scent: The dilemma the BSA is wrestling with is the possibility that by becoming "all-inclusive" the organization may lose the sponsorship and membership of many who do not wish to be associated with an organization that accepts openly gay men or boys, whether that is right or wrong. It would be ironic indeed if the BSA became less inclusive in practice by adopting a policy of broad inclusion.

And speaking of inclusion, why is no one clamoring for merger of the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts?

Voice of Reason
Layton, UT

Let's put to bed once and for all the fable that homosexuality is in any way even remotely comparable to the civil rights struggle of blacks. This is a comparison that is desperately pushed by gay activists because it muzzles actual debate, and manipulates people into not using their brains in considering gay marriage by just slapping evil labels on people that are opposite of their real hearts ("bigot", "hateful", etc.)

So preserving traditional marriage under the law is somehow the same as the Jim Crow "separate but equal". Okay. So that means it's also "separate but equal" to not recognize polygamist marriages, group marriages, marriages to refrigerators & animals...ridiculous, you say? I agree; now you tell me why. But wait, you can't...doing so would be bigoted and hateful! How dare you refuse my joint marriage to thirty men & women!

Still absurd? Fine, make your argument, and I promise not to call you a bigot. But also let me make mine without cynical labels designed to muzzle free speech and skip over the use of brains with hot-button labels.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

I think society can become more inclusive to gay people without having to suddenly let people marry major appliances. We've done it before. We can do it again.

Utes Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

@omni scent
"I don't think anyone wants to create a "Gay Scouts", rather a scouting organization that is all-inclusive."
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So, in other words, the boy scouts should accept girls - because according to the liberal agenda, they can't have gender discrimination. And the girl scouts should accept boys. Not to mention, that boys older than 18 would have to be accepted - because the liberal agenda excludes age discrimination. So, they would have to include 70 year old men and women. Also, since the boy scouts have physical requirements then they would have to change those requirements to accommodate those with physical disabilities because the liberal agenda prevents this. In fact, they would have to eliminate camping, swimming, hiking, etc.

This sounds like an organization that accepts everybody, but cannot do anything. Just what the liberals want.

omni scent
taylorsville, UT

Voice of Reason: a marrage is a legal agreement between two people. Refrigerators and animals have never been able to enter into any legal contract.
Plural marriage I'm actually okay with, as long as all parties are in agreement, and all willing and able to enter into that agreement. That would even fit the "historic definition" of marrage as expressed in the bible, not to mention Utah history. There, I'm not doing anything bigoted and hateful to you or your potential spouses.
However, your arguments lack reason, and have done nothing to persuade me there is no difference between homosexuality and the civil rights movement.

omni scent
taylorsville, UT

Utes Fan: I don't know any liberals who say you can't make distincions between minors and adults. And the scouts already do accommodate those with physical disibilities. My troop back in the 90's had an Eagle Scout in a wheelchair.
As for merging with the girl scouts, let's face it: it would not be practical. I can't really see that same argument for gay scouts not based in unrational fear.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Doesn't "Gay Scouts" follow the old flawed "Seperate but Equal" laws from the Segrated South -- from over 100 years ago?

Conservatives just need a big old time machine - so they can all go back right from where they came from.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Voice of Reason
Layton, UT

Please name anyone who is sitting in jail for polygamy?

FYI - Warren Jeffs and the like are sitting in jail for child rape.

4word thinker
Murray, UT

Amen Scott Soulier!!!

The Boy Scouts have put in the hard work, been honest about who they are, and what values they have and teach. If people don't espouse those values, make your own group. Don't destroy someone else's.

Next thing you know these people will be telling religions and political parties they have to change their values and practices.

Oh wait! They are already doing that.

Well I am not caving to your craving and raving!

ECR
Burke, VA

Voice of Reason and Utes Fan - Thank you for articulating many of the excuses that people like to use to justify their phopbias and exclude those who are different. Welcome to America, the land of the fr.....oh wait a minute. As has been stated so well by Curmudgeon, the Boy Scouts are wrestling with an issue that might not be as noble and honorable as we all want to think. They're worried about money! Which decision will help them most in that regard?

I have to say that I, personally, choose not to be part of any organization that looks down on other individuals or tries to make them less that they are. If the Boy Scouts want to make the choice to continue excluding gays from their rolls then they are free to do that. How's that for a "liberal agenda"?

Someday, hopefully, we will look at people simply as children of God and treat them accordingly. And by the way Voice or Reason, it is not a "fable that homosexuality is in any way even remotely comparable to the civil rights struggle of blacks." It is every bit as conparable.

observator
east of the snake river, ID

Simple solution:

1. The BSA will allow all boys and all leaders who are approved by any chartering organization to participate in Scouting.
2. The BSA will define "morally straight" to include prohibition of extramarital relations, and to define marriage as "the legally recognized union of two individuals who may, in principle, produce children without assistance from a third party".
3. By biological definition, heterosexual unions may, in principle, produce children. Whether they actually do is beside the point.
4. The BSA can hold, as it has in the past, that those who do not uphold the oath to be "morally straight", as defined, will not participate in the organization.

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