Mr. Davis has a valid point; if only for the reason that a broken clock is still
right twice a day. Obama certainly has valid opinions and proposals, as did
Jimmy Carter, who never-the-less history has noted as a failed president. It is
also possible to prove the world is flat with proper selection of facts.
Despite the rose glasses of his supporters; Obama is still leading the USA in
the direction of Europe, which is ironic because Europe is failing economically
and socially. Obama’s use of class, race, and gender warfare and his
unscrupulous Chicago thug campaign tactics combined with religious intolerance
and economic suicide designed to overload the system so it can be
“transformed” provide a more complete picture.@
Emajor“Once you've decided someone is your enemy, and that you
are going to despise them, what they say afterward hardly matters. Everything
from that point on will be systematically ignored, modified, or amplified to fit
your opinion of that person.” Try changing the word “you” to
“I” – your observation is hardly limited to judgments about
Obama. Try reading any post by LDS Liberal
RedShirtUSS Enterprise, UTTo "Truthseeker" so
what are you complaining about? You sound like you don't like the fact that
Romney obeys tax laws. What sense does that make? You don't like a person
who obeys the laws and is not hiding anything from teh government.Would you rather that Romney act like Tim Geitner, hiding investments and then
claiming that his copy of Turbo Tax didn't really cover everything?7:58 a.m. Feb. 22, 2013=============Romney is still
hiding 10+ years of his tax returns.When it was HIS own father Goerge who
set the national precedence 50 years ago to relase them for public
disclosure.That sort of secrecy speaks for itself.
To "Truthseeker" so what are you complaining about? You sound like you
don't like the fact that Romney obeys tax laws. What sense does that make?
You don't like a person who obeys the laws and is not hiding anything from
teh government.Would you rather that Romney act like Tim Geitner,
hiding investments and then claiming that his copy of Turbo Tax didn't
really cover everything?
I don't agree with Obama. With that in mind I applaud his courage in
writing the article. It is time to have a civil discussion on the issues and
stop all this birther nonsense and stop worrying about who does or doesn't
pay taxes. Our tax code was written to encourage deductions. Paying no federal
taxes doesn't make someone a freeloader or tax cheat. I am beginning to
hope for a strong third party candidate with a more reasonbale and non partisan
approach. The far right is motivated by anti-government ideology.
I may be naive, but I have never thought that a conflagration spending spree,
unlimited Federal control, and $16,000,000,000,000+ official Federal debt was
any kind of representation of American values. I understand that some of our
citizens think it's the taxpayers' job to give them everything they
want and need, but somehow I thought that individual and organizational
responsibility might play a role, even in today's America.
re:PatriotWhen a stockbroker invests OTHER people's money he
pays the standard taxes on the money he earns. When Obama, you or I invest
OUR OWN money we can use the capital gains tax rate. When Mitt
Romney invests/ed OTHER people's money he paid 15% on the money he earned
due to a nice little tax loophole called "carried interest." Romney
also uses the capital gains rate (15%) on money he himself invested. The reduction in the capital gains tax rate has increased income
inequality.Some tax authorities said Mickelson exaggerated and
Mickelson did apologize the next day--but is keeping his options open. CA state
income tax increased 3% for those making over $250k. Mickelson could move to
FLA or TX which doesn't have an income tax. But Mickelson will still pay
tax on any prize money he earns in CA. What percent of Mickelson's time is
spent playing golf in CA? future? Stay tuned to see what Mickelson ends up
doing. My guess he is huddling with his tax preparers/advisors and looking into
his options and figuring out what is involved. (btw I'm married to a CPA
with a Masters in Business Taxation).
re:Hutterite"The president has fulfilled his mandate with
thoughtful, reasonable efforts."Spoken like a true Marxist /
socialist. Nothing Barack Hussin Obama has done in the past 4.5 nightmarish
years has been either thoughtful or reasonable. Is 17 trillion in debt
re:TruthseekerAgain - Romney pays capital gains tax for the most
part from his investments as does Barack Obama and cap gains tax is less
percentage simply to encourage investment. Obama was attempting to spin the
ridiculous lie that all rich folks pay less percentage than a secretary which is
a bald faced lie. Of course the low information voter swallows everything Barack
says. Pro golfer Phil Michelson is moving out of California because he is paying
nearly 62% of his wages to the government...state and federal. Yes - that is
62%!!! Phil is moving to Texas where our constitution is still observed. Wealthy
folks have all sort of legal tricks to find loop holes out of taxes but that
doesn't change the IRS CORE TAX TABLES and tax rates based on income. Pull
out your 1040 booklet and take a look in the back at the tax tables.
To "Richard Davis" unfortunately you are wrong. Obama is not a "new
voice" he is the voice of all the failures of the past 100 years. From the
commuist revolutionaries who wanted to make things "more fair" for the
poor, to FDR's policies that kept us in the great depression for 7 years
longer than we should have been, to the failues of Jimmy Carter.If
Obama wanted to be a "new voice" that actually believed in something
other than the philosophies that are taking us towards socialism, he would be
speaking more like George Washington and would actually be working towards
getting the government out of our lives rather than more involved.To
"Kent C. DeForrest" is it that they agree with Obama's statements
or his actions. Also, which Obama are we talking about? The campaign Obama, or
President Obama? His two modes are polar opposites.
A new Pew Research Center poll sort of puts the cherry on the top of this fun
little conversation. The poll finds that a majority of Americans line up with
Obama's positions on almost everything. Perhaps the most revealing number
from the poll is that now only 22 percent of Americans identify themselves as
Republicans. If this isn't the hallmark of a party on the brink of
extinction, then what is? The GOP is so fractured, so anti-intelligence, so
ideologically conflicted, and so extreme, its only hope lies in selling an
increasingly unmarketable product OR changing it stance on all sorts of issues.
Maligning the President totally on all issues is mandatory in conservative
circles. That is why they are getting smaller and increasingly political
Rae, can you provide us with the quote where Obama apologized to Arab leaders?
You know, it's really cool all you people worried about
spending. Where were you when W and the Republicans were spending us into this
fiscal disaster? Obama is not a radical. That is a lie you have been
told to control you. There are people that know the gullibility of
conservatives, and they are using it for all they are worth.
Mr Davis:I would like to know how you think apologizing to leaders of Arab
countries for Americans is the voice of Americans? Or how that represents
American values? To me it's self-explanatory that apologizing for someone
is not speaking for them.
The words may sound like they reflect America but what he does and works for do
not reflect us at all. My parents taught me to work hard and pay my bills not
borrow and spend other peoples money. I was also taught to respect my country
and my ancestors especially the vets not do dishonor them. He needs to walk the
walk not just talk the talk.
His voice reflects Americas future. Oh yea. over $80 billion in new spending.
That dog and pony show speech is just that a dog an pony show. Obama should have
written that little song give give said the little stream. That is what his
trademark is. Give. Not the American way that I know which is work.
Nate:"Obama is a radical held in check by the provisions of an
inspired Constitution."He certainly is a radical but the
Constitution is having a difficult time restraining a radical. What he cannot
get congress to do he tries to do it with Executive orders and he has done
plenty. Going around congress with these Executive orders is pretty
good evidence of Obama being an arrogant radical that is not good for this
country.The Obama statements quoted in Davis' article are
veiled efforts to fool the people.
to those railing against the President, he may not reflect your values but he
clearly (elected twice) reflects the values of the majority of Americans. You
have every right to disagree with him shout from the rooftops that he does not
reflect your views but it is silly to pretend he does not reflect the majority
of Americans views.
@mike richardsCan bill o riley or you prove his claims? I can claim
the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese it does not make it true. we
hear these same claims after every election and after every election they
investigate and there is no proof to support the claims. it really is time to
find a new lie, this one has grown beyond stale.
You have got to be kidding!
re:patriot"Go look it up in the back of your 1040 booklet if you want
to see what tax rate a person pays who makes over 250k."How/why
did Romney manage to pay an income tax rate of 14%?Theoretically
(ignoring the numerous tax "loopholes) we all pay the same rate on the same
level of income. The first $50,000 is taxed at a certain rate etc. A
billionaire doesn't pay 40% on all his income, just the portion over
$400,000. There are even many millionaires/billionaires who manage to owe zero
federal income tax.
I don't see any analysis in the article as to Obama's position on
social issues or foreign affairs. I am not saying that the analysis would
necessarily change (that obviously depends on one's political persuasion),
but why were these big areas omitted? Seems that the article should be titled
"Obama's economic voice reflects American economic values, future."
Also, this probably goes beyond the scope of this article, but I
would like to see an analysis as to what extent the Republican house has
thwarted some of Obama's ambitions: in other words, would Obama be as
arguably moderate were the entire Congress comprised of Democrats? If you
compare his first two years to his second two years, he has argualy been kept in
check to a large extent on some issues.
>David KingI appreciate your thoughtful response to this column. I
suspect that you and I disagree on some issues, but there's no reason we
can't have a conversation.On one issue, I agree completely with you.
The drone program is unconstitutional, and a proven failure. Killing American
citizens without due process? Routinely ignore the sovereignty of nations with
whom we are at peace, in order to kill their citizens. Unconscionable. The war
on terror accomplishes one thing--it is a program for creating more terrorists.
@Blue:"Thanks, wrz, for being the voice of today's GOP
base."I learned to spout political rhetoric from Democrats.
Notice how they are the first to jump on threads favorable to Obama, spouting
Democrat talking points, ad nauseum."You're why Republicans
are losing elections, and that suits me just fine."Here's
why Democrats win... They favor: abortion on demand, gay marriage, amnesty for
illegals, open borders, unrestrained immigration, government controlled
healthcare, and Obama-phones for all. Most of which conduct is abhorrent to
Republicans. It's plain the Republicans must hold their collective noses
and accept much of the above if they hope to win an election.@Lew
Scannon: "Wow. You've drunk the tea straight. No sugar. No lemon. No
nuthin."At least it's tea... not the bootleg liquor the
Democrats imbibe.@Truthseeker: "The most popular of these
conspiracy theories is the belief that President Obama is hiding important
information about his background and early life, which would include
what’s often referred to 'birtherism.'"That's not a theory. It's fact. He refuses to divvy up college
papers. Was he a foreign student? And how'd he get a SS card from
Thank-you Mr. Davis. Clearly, in YOUR view, President Obama is the voice of
America, but not for me nor for my family. We all work and we work hard and
would like to hold on to a fair portion of what we have worked so hard for.
Clearly, Pres. Obama is the voice for wealth re-distribution from those of us
who work hard to those who do not work or worse yet to those who WILL NOT work
due to their sense of entitlement that you have re-enforced. Bigger, more
bloated government....not for me. Already we are seeing the higher taxes which
flow from those who work to those who do not and Government is the man in the
middle taking a huge share. And you want us to believe Mr.President is the voice
of America. How sad it has been in Greece when too many refuse to work and
expect all the benefits of the "laborer". Greece, here we come.
I'm one that very much disagrees. Mr. Obama does not speak my language.
And when a lady from Ohio is bragging that she fraudulently vote for him 6
times, and is proud of it, I worry about the ethics of our voters.
Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, Utah11:44 a.m. Feb. 20, 2013It's pointless to argue about who voted for Obama...Nobody
will ever know how many votes each candidate actually received and nobody will
ever know if those who receive from the government voted as a bloc for Obama.=========== Still not living in reality?Obama
"stole" the election.The vast left-wing conspirasy.The
lame-stream-media, controlled by the "Democrats" somehow manged to
"fool" everyone on planet earth, but you.In your heart, and in
your mind - Mitt Romney actually won, and should've been the
President....Sad, to be quite honest.but I agree, It's
pointless to argue...You live in a different reality all together than the
rest of us.
Obama CERTAINLY reflects America's values (more's the pity): we no
longer have any.
Richards, did you ever think about looking into those claims that O'Rielly
made? No, of course you didn't. They sounded strange to me, so I did. Thank
goodness I have a well developed sense of skepticism. Needless to say
O'Rielly was very mistaken. Imagine that, Bill O'Rielly got something
wrong. Again. Mountainman, you are wrong. And you base your opinion
on nothing but: no taxpayer would vote for Obama. Sad.Conservatives
have become such a sad people.
Mike:Bill O'Reilly? Certainly the source of all unbiased truth
in the universe. Get over the sour grapes. This isn't Russia or Iran. Romney didn't lose because of illegal voting or stuffed ballot
boxes. He lost because (1) he bent too far to the right to please the tea party
and alienated millions of moderates, (2) he was dishonest (of course, so was
Obama, but Romney's lies were more outrageous and easily exposed), (3) he
kept sticking his foot in his mouth, (4) he never gave any specifics about how
he would cut spending, (5) Republican ideas appealed to a shrinking minority of
Americans, and (6) he showed that he was willing to say virtually anything and
take any stand just to get elected (look at his history and tell me who he
The president has fulfilled his mandate with thoughtful, reasonable efforts.
Obama's voice reflects Americans values is silly talk and laughable. Holy
smokes - the man is a socialist for pete sake. This article is not worth the
" He urged a plan of tax fairness that doesn't allow billionaires to
pay a lower rate than their secretaries." This is nonsense. Buffet
doesn't pay a lower tax rate than his secretary. This is all political spin
and lies which Barack is expert at. The bulk of what tax rate Barack was
referring to with Buffet is the capital gains tax and NOT the normal tax rate
for normal income. Go look it up in the back of your 1040 booklet if you want to
see what tax rate a person pays who makes over 250k. It is nearly 40%. Buffets
secretary pays around 20%. Also as for the other things Barack talked about in
his state of the union side show - realize the man will NOT put his name behind
ANYTHING. He will not take ownership of anything because he doesn't want to
Re: Mountain Man, Mike Richards and WTZThe third comment posted in
this thread at 6:21 AM by Emajor says it all!
I beg to differ with the author's intent. A continuation of socialistic
policies at the expense of freedom is not inspiring. We need leaders that tell
the truth and replace fear with faith. The President getting 'tough laws
to keep criminals from obtaining weapons' is absolutely astounding coming
from a university professor. I would love to hear him tell his students with a
straight face that criminals will cease getting weapons once a 'tough'
gun law is passed. Is this the height of ignorace or wilful destruction of a
second amendment right? As far as a decent wage, this type of drivil comes from
those at the top of the income scale, as if raising the minimum wage is going to
do anything but keep someone in poverty. It doesn't matter whether he
responds by saying, 'at least it is something', what we need is
someone advocating policies that lift rather than put them in bondage to a
'benevolent' government. Come, Prof., you can do better than this.
A 2006 Tax Foundation analysis of IRS data found strong correlation between a
state's average family income and its percentage of households with no
federal tax liability. The analysis found that the five states with the highest
percentage of households paying no federal income tax for 2005 were Mississippi,
Louisiana, Arkansas, New Mexico and Alabama. According to 2005 data from the
federal Bureau of Economic Analysis, those states' ranks in per-capita
income were, respectively, 49th, 50th, 48th, 46th and 40th. That same year, the
five states with the lowest percentage of households paying no federal income
tax were Alaska, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Minnesota. In
per-capita income, those states ranked, respectively, 16th, second, first, sixth
As a typical politician, Mr. Obama has said/proposed many things and delivered
little. But, I forget, its not his fault.
It's pointless to argue about who voted for Obama when Bill O'Reilly
reported that entire precincts did not have even a single vote cast for Romney.
He pointed out that in some precincts more than 100% of the eligible voters
somehow voted. He even reported that in one precinct in Florida, more than 250%
of the eligible voters voted. He also reported that all of that "over
voting" only happened in precincts where voter I.D. was not required.Nobody will ever know how many votes each candidate actually received
and nobody will ever know if those who receive from the government voted as a
bloc for Obama.One thing that we can verify is that Income Tax is
not indexed to inflation. Every time the minimum wage goes up, there is a
trickle effect that causes everybody to get a raise - because the cost of
everything also goes up. Because income taxes are not indexed, all levels of
government not only receive more money, but many people are pushed into a higher
bracket - without Congress raising taxes. Of course Obama wants to
raise the minimum wage! It's his back-door approach to raising our taxes.
A poll conducted Dec 2012 by Fairleigh Dickinson University found that:Sixty-three percent of registered voters in the U.S. buy into at least one
political conspiracy theory. The nationwide survey of registered voters asked
Americans to evaluate four different political conspiracy theories: 56% of
Democrats and 75% of Republicans say that at least one is likely true. The most
popular of these conspiracy theories is the belief that President Obama is
hiding important information about his background and early life, which would
include what’s often referred to “birtherism.” Thirty-six
percent of Americans think this is probably true, including 64 percent of
Republicans and 14 percent of Democrats.The relationship between
current events knowledge and belief in conspiracy theories is conditional on
partisanship. Among Democrats, each question answered correctly reduces the
likelihood of endorsing at least one of the conspiracy theories by seven points.
Among independents, each additional question reduces it by two points. For
Republicans, though, each additional question answered correctly tends to
increase belief in at least one of the theories by two points.
Mountanman,I just gave you a search protocol to find that answer. So you
can either take 5 minutes and read the article and be somewhat informed on this
issue, or you can continue to make "wagers" based on your own biased
assumptions about the 330 million citizens of this country. That isn't a
wise option in this case because you are most certainly wrong.
@ EMajor. How do you know? I don't know the number either but I would
wager Obama got 90% of the 47% and Romney got less than 10% of that demographic.
Why am I so sure? Because Obama won the election and it sure wasn't
TAXPAYERS who elected him.
I'm one of the 49% of Americans who voted for the other guy.Obama almost never speaks for me. I disagree with nearly everything he says
Mntnmn:Most Utahns who did not pay income tax voted for Romney.
Hello.Richard:What on earth are you thinking, writing an
editorial like this? Heavens, don't you know this is the Deseret News, the
paper with a stated mission of having a conservative op-ed section? Get your
ducks in a row or you'll be out in the cold, begging for column space in
the Trib.wrz:Wow. You've drunk the tea straight. No
sugar. No lemon. No nuthin.
wrz: "If he won't produce documentation to prove otherwise, we must
assume he is. His birth certificate is a doctored sham."Lovely.Thanks, wrz, for being the voice of today's GOP base.
You go right ahead with that stuff. While you're at it, let's hear
your thoughts on biological evolution, flouridating water and the UN.You're why Republicans are losing elections, and that suits me just fine.
Mountanman,I don't think it. I know it. Google "politifact romney
48 49 percent".
Obama is a radical held in check by the provisions of an inspired Constitution.
He came in intending to "fundamentally transform" America, and finds it
impossible to overcome the many checks and balances designed by the Founders to
keep one person from doing too much damage. Not that he hasn't done any,
but our course is still correctible.Obama: "The most important
lesson I've learned is that you can't change Washington from the
inside."It ain't over yet, but at this stage of the game
it's Founders 1, Obama 0.
@ Emajor. Do you really think anyone who does not pay any federal income taxes
would NOT vote for Obama? Really?
Where to begin..."... President Barack Obama has been accused of
being an alien."If he won't produce documentation to prove
otherwise, we must assume he is. His birth certificate is a doctored sham."President Obama proposed tax reform to make our tax system less
complicated and fairer."A political ploy to eventually raise
taxes on everyone... starting with those who pay the lion's share of taxes
now. Tax increase in a recession kills jobs."He urged a plan of
tax fairness that doesn't allow billionaires to pay a lower rate than their
secretaries."Millionaires pay mostly capital gains rate to
stimulate the economy. The real answer is to lower the secretaries rate... and
cut government waste."He announced manufacturing hubs to create
more high-tech, high paying jobs."What? "He
proposed raising the minimum wage..."You don't raise wage
rates in a recession. It kills economic growth."He urged
Congress to fix the immigration system..."He did this to
increase his Democrat base with Hispanics, which is a despicable political
ploy."... the president urged tough laws to keep criminals from
obtaining weapons."Criminals with guns isn't the problem.
Nuts with guns is.
Nice for the DN to finally realize that there are other opinions besides Right
Wing and Uber-Right Wing. The comments here should definitely be entertaining.
Mountanman,"Why isn't 47$ of Americans who are paying no federal
income taxes high enough for Democrats to secure future election wins?"Apparently not, considering a large portion of that 47% votes
Republican. Yes, Republican. I thought the election would have taught us that
not everything that came from Mitt Romney's mouth was true.
Fair tax code? Why isn't 47$ of Americans who are paying no federal income
taxes high enough for Democrats to secure future election wins?
Let's examine one of Mr. Obama's proposals. He wants to raise the
minimum wage. Will that help those who earn the minimum wage? Will he demand
that prices stay the same even though business owners have to pay more to
provide goods and services? Who gets hurt the most when the minimum wage is
raised? Isn't it those who receive that wage? Can they buy more gasoline
when the gas stations raise their prices to cover their additional costs? Can
then buy more food when the farmer, the processor and the stores all pay more
for the same job? Can they buy more of anything when all prices go up more than
their wage increases? Look at history. Each time the minimum wage has been
increased, buying power has been reduced. That kind of help nobody needs.How about training and providing jobs? When Obama tried to do that last
time, EACH job generated cost you and me more than $250,000. Government,
especially this administration, cannot create jobs in the private sector.How about taxing everybody twice, like he does the billionaires? Is that
what you want? Most of us will never pay that 2nd tax.
As much as the repubs don't want to admit it, Obama is America's
voice. Otherwise, he wouldn't have won by a landslide. Sorry folks, but the
voodoo economics of attacking Iran, giving more tax cuts to business, letting
Wall Street run unregulated, cutting earned benefits while letting businesses
have more and more entitlements, attacking women, privatizing education,
attacking minorities and homosexuals, and no gun regulations isn't what the
majority wants.Don't like it, repubs? Fine, then LEAVE.
Once you've decided someone is your enemy, and that you are going to
despise them, what they say afterward hardly matters. Everything from that point
on will be systematically ignored, modified, or amplified to fit your opinion of
Mr. Davis, I expect that you are going to get a lot of vehement disagreement on
this piece. It is a well reasoned piece, which seems to aggravate some people.
I'm constantly amazed at people who say that the president is the most
radical figure in U.S. history, totally outside the mainstream. Clearly FDR and
LBJ were far more radical, heck even Richard Nixon was more radical.As even some conservatives have pointed out, not only is he not a socialist,
he's barely a liberal. Former Reagan and Bush Sr.adviser Bruce Bartlett
stated that Obama is quite like Bush Sr. on foreign policy, and quite similar to
Nixon on domestic policy. A centrist in other words. Anyway, it
should be a lively debate.
One of the greatest things about America is each individual has their own voice
and can speak for themselves. No American President is my voice. Glenn Beck is
not my voice. Chris Matthews is not my voice. I have my own voice and I will
speak up when so inclined. Certainly much of the criticism aimed at the
President has been unfair to downright ridiculous, but I do think there are
things we can be concerned about. I disagree with the President signing laws
like the Patriot Act, FISA, the NDAA, and maintaining a "kill" list
which has included American citizens. Of course I disagree with George W. Bush
for having the same policies. That is why I speak only for myself and consider
no politician to be my voice. America is great not because we all share one
collective voice or opinion, but because we're allowed to disagree, and we
can do so in a respectful manner.