@Badgerbadger:I stand corrected that Virginia did not pass the
mandatory invasive ultrasound provision. However, SB484 mandates external
ultrasound and further states, "If gestational age cannot be determined by a
transabdominal ultrasound, then the patient undergoing the abortion shall be
verbally offered other ultrasound imaging to determine gestational age..."
Since fetal age in the first trimester is often difficult to determine,
"other" ultrasound (undefined, but presumably invasive) is needed. This
isn't much better. Regardless, the fact that the original bill was even
proffered is evidence of extremism in the GOP.As to rape, refer to
Utah Code 76-5-402.2. In an earlier post I noted that by making ultrasound
conditional, consent was coerced or extorted, not freely given. The intent of
the Virginia bill seems designed "with intent to cause substantial emotional
or bodily pain." The shoe fits.Finally, I used
"imagine" because I was referring specifically to you in that sentence.
I don't know you, so I have to speculate based on the evidence you provided
in your comment. The word limit here prevents itemizing all the sources I use
to survey conservative opinion, but I don't have to imagine what
conservatives generally think, just you.
Actually, if Obama could balance the budgit while abiding by the constitution, I would be more than willing to put his face on Mount Rushmore.
But then again..., I guess I'll just stick with my original opinion, a
socialist thru and thru! P.S. Socialism is evil!
As long as the tea party is at the helm yelling crazy commands.
Unfortunately, most democrats and republicans are shams for Constitutional
government. Both would refer to the Consitution and our founding fathers as
either outdated or extremists. Words have meaning. Partisanship arises because
what was once simple to understand and conduct (The constitution) is now just
something in the way of what both want, Socialism. Socialism aborts God and
demeans humanity, all in the name of social justice, whatever that means.
Government, in its limmited and specified form, will rid the partisanship, the
whining, the excuses, and the wasted time spent on futile and useless debate
over issues that were settled over 200 years ago.
@ cjb Having a huge and ever-increasing dependency
electorate, that looks upon Obama as "Santa Clause", is what really lost
the last election for the GOP! Anyone who thinks Mitt Romney is an extremist, is
a non-realist who cant tell the truth, or a complete moron! As
for the definition of extremist? Anybody who supports partial birth abortion is
extreme! Anyone who wants to deny citizens their constitutional 2nd amendment
rights is an extremist! Anybody who feels foreign enemy combatant/terrorists,
are entitled to US constitutional rights is an extremist! Anybody who can't
stop spending "Santa Clause" money, when the country has a 1 billion
dollar deficit, is an extremist! Anybody who supports or believes in special
laws, regulations, and rules for one segment of society, based on race, gender,
or "sexual orientation", is an extremist! Funny? These all sound like
The tea party wing of the GOP is extreme enough that IT is most likely what lost
them this presidential election.
@ Counter Intelligence - "...being called an extremist by someone who is
even more extreme is not much of an insult. The far left has no moral
credibility to be calling anyone an extremist.What if a
middle-of-the-road Independent like myself were to openly express the opinion
held by the majority of Americans that the Republican far-right is dangerously
extreme, would that be a problem for you?
per Ernest T. Bass ... "Repubs aren't extreme. They're total
nutjobs."Best Post EVER!
to What in Tucket? 1:47 p.m. Feb. 14, 2013"A balanced budget,
less government, lower taxes is the only way to prosperity."So,
you are saying to Vote Libertarian.
I live in a part of the world where the LDS faith is considered
"extreme". And when we sit down with out neighbors and friends and they
learn that we are mormons, they often react that we don't live our lives
much different they they live their own. Those things the separate us are
dwarfed by those that bind us.Politics is largely the same.
Republicans view democrats as extreme, and yet on the majority of policy, there
is little difference. Abortion, the hot issue - pew research found that the
vast majority of those who call themselves democrats don't approve of
abortion. Only a fringe of Republicans believe abortion to be wrong in all
cases, even when the mothers life is at risk. Only a few democrats believe in
abortion on demand. The same can be said on most issues. Democrats
don't want to save every tree, Republicans don't want scorched earth.
In North Carolina you will find republican and democrats hunting and fishing
side by side.Lets remember its only the parties who benefit from
false devices. They seek to create difference where there is little. Lets not
play their game.
@Kent C. DeForrest:"Just a reminder: the question here is not whether
individual Republicans are extreme, but whether the party, on the whole, is
extreme. Of this there can be no doubt."Republicans are
conservative which, by definition, is... er... conservative (traditional social
values). Nothing extreme there.On the other hand, Democrat values
are extreme... for example, the killing of the unborn, commonly referred to as
abortion. I would call that very extreme, and I think the unborn who will never
experience life would agree.Same with gay marriage... very extreme
and goes against the Mother Nature's Law.
I continue to enjoy the sudden about-face from Republicans claiming to be
serious about deficit spending. Tax cuts = deficit spending every time, unless
you have a surplus or you cut spending too. No, tax cuts don't pay for
themselves, except in rich Republican fantasies. Republican majorities in both
houses of Congress and the presidency gave us the Bush tax cuts, turning budget
surpluses into deficits. Didn't want to 'fess up to the costs of
those tax cuts, though, so they set a 10-year time limit, and then were
"shocked, shocked" last December at the budget crisis that inevitably
erupted when their tax cuts expired. Where's our 10-year prosperity from
those Bush tax cuts? The GOP wouldn't even put the costs of their wars
into the published annual budget. Now suddenly THESE people are the
self-declared prophets of fiscal responsibility. Even today, they continue the
brinksmanship on every random artificial deadline (remember which party was the
one with people proposing default on the US debt?), and proclaim austerity at
the one time (recession/depression) that it's most destructive, rather than
actually working for progress on employment and jobs. Shameless...
@Truthseeker"Pharmacists provide abortions? I wasn't aware of
that."Please don’t play daft. Pharmacists provide
abortofacients and several states (such as Illinois) have eliminated conscience
clauses specifically to require pharmacists to dispense abortofacient drugs
regardless of their personal choice. BTWElla may be classified as
emergency contraception rather than an abortifacient; but it is chemically
similar to RU486 and can be used as an abortifacient drug to kill a fetus after
fertilization: it IS an abortofacient when used as such. (But I suspect
you WERE AWARE of this already, but would rather feign indignation in order to
avoid reality)@Ajax“I’m sorry, but I fail to see
how claims of extremism among others somehow make it acceptable for the
Republican far right.” They don’t: but being called an
extremist by someone who is even more extreme is not much of an insult.
Gorechov calling Reagan an extremist is laughable. The far left has no moral
credibility to be calling anyone an extremist.
Just a reminder: the question here is not whether individual Republicans are
extreme, but whether the party, on the whole, is extreme. Of this there can be
@Mike in Cedar City:"...corporations should be subsidized and
excluded from paying taxs..."Corporations don't pay taxes.
Any assessed 'tax' is added to the cost of goods and services and
passed to the consumer."... while the poor can't be
permitted a decent minimum wage?"We are in a global economy. We
must compete with countries who don't have minimum wage laws. Who do you
suspect will win that struggle?"Who was that pushed the notion
of trickle down economics..."Trickle-down is found in almost all
economy texts and described as a viable/useful economic theory."... while pushing deregulation the financial sector that led directly to
the crash of 2008?"Chris Dodd and Barney Frank, who were mostly
responsible for the 2008 crash, were (gasp) Democrats."Who was
it that was willing to risk the full faith and credit of the United States by
blocking action on the deficit limit?"The limit has to be
addressed at some time. Better sooner than later. Democrats want the debt
piled onto children and grandchildren."Who is it that thinks
that 47% of us are deadbeats."Romney's assertion was
wrong... it's more like 55%
@one old man:"If the GOP is not extreme, then why is that party
responsible for most of the increasing deficit?"Wait! Obama has
increased the nation's debt more that almost all presidents put
together."If they support personal freedoms, why are they
considering banning smoking in cars by parents of children riding in the
cars?"You're mistaken. Democrats are behind this...
consisting of little old ladies in tennis shoes.@Ajax:"To
flatly reject... gun control..."Sorry, Ajax. In the final
analysis no one can be denied owning/possessing arms. Says so in the US
Constitution (Amendment II). Doesn't matter how crazy or inept
they're found to be."To categorically reject a path to
legality for undocumented immigrants... or to insist that the Mexican border be
sealed..."There exists a path to citizenship... go home, fill
out immigration forms, learn English, and get in line."...
insist on no change to taxes in negotiating a reasonable and comprehensive
national financial package..."Obama's plan to raise taxes
now and do the cuts later is sheer trickery which Republicans are on to.
'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.'
BadgerbadgerMurray, UT==========The topic is GOP
not extreme.Republicans want to ban/outlaw all abortions, even in
cases of rape.Republicans have also said: …women
don't get pregnant from "legitimate rape."...that a
woman's body can somehow spontaneously abort a rape pregnancy.…even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is
something that “God intended to happen."...victims of rape
should make “Lemons can be made into lemonade.”These are
all Republicans, these are all extremist views.BTW - a D&C
procedure due to a miscarriage would also be illegal if Republican laws were
passed.The laws are to general and broad brushed, without taking into
account or allowing for the life and health of the woman.
re:BadgerbadgerFor some women (especially young women)they can/could
be painful. Actually, I have had more than one vaginal ultrasound in my life
(to monitor a medical condition). Women's medical decisions
should be left up to women--in consultation with her healthcare providers and
family members, period. If I were a Dr. who performed abortions--I would
probably want to perform an ultrasound (not transvaginal) just to confirm the
age of the fetus. There might be other reasons to recommend ultrasounds, even
transvaginal ones to a pt., BUT THESE DECISIONS SHOULD BE between the woman and
her Dr. These laws are an insult to women. 1) they assume
women don't know what they are doing.2) they are meant to make it as
mentally, emotionally and physically as difficult as possible to get an
abortion. I used to believe pro-life people when they said they were
concerned about life. But no more. When they strongly oppose sex education and
expanding availability of contraceptives (which reduces abortion) their
objectives became more clear. andI have had one abortion
(termination of pregnancy) when my baby, for unknown reasons, died at 26 weeks.
Truthseeker Thank you for confirming that trans-vaginal ultrasound
is not required by law. I sense you have never had one, since you
refer to them as 'likely painful'. They are not in the least painful,
nor are they like rape in any way. For someone seeking an abortion, this pre-op
test is nothing compared to what they are about to experience. Abortion is not
for wimps, and it is not an easy way out. It is a desperate way out, with
lifelong consequences.To all you men, don't try to talk about
the discomfort of women's procedures. You have no clue. In return, we women
won't talk about the discomfort of men's procedures. Deal?
Re:Lag/Badger Va. Gov. Bob McDonnell signed a controversial
mandatory ultrasound bill into law Wednesday afternoon, making Virginia the
seventh state to require women to have an ultrasound procedure before they can
legally have an abortion.A previous version of the bill would have
forced women to undergo an invasive, likely painful transvaginal ultrasound
procedure if she was too early into the pregnancy for a more typical
transabdominal one to detect fetal age. After that bill sparked widespread
protests, McDonnell and House Republicans worked together to write a new bill
that would allow women to opt out of the more invasive procedure in favor of an
Lagomorph/MikeHow many ways can you be wrong?Virginia
doesn't require the internal ultrasound by state law. 90% of abortion
clinics require it for medical reasons, but not because the law requires it.I ask, "Do you really know people who believe these things?" You answer, "I listen to Glenn Beck and Kyal2K... I occasionally
wander onto TheBlaze, TownHall, and used to read WorldNetDaily regularly. I have
conservative facebook friends who post..."So no, you don't
know any of these people, but you claim your occasional dabble in the cyber
world means you do. Not the same thing as knowing them. Not even close.And last of all, my favorite:I asked, "Do your liberal chums
hang out together and imagine what the republicans are thinking?"Your answer, "...I would imagine you and your circle hew close to the
peak."So the answer is yes, you do imagine, because you just
said you do. Probably the most honest part of any of your posts, except that you
go on to pretend that imagining is the same as knowing.Your
imagination is way off.And so are your extremist claims.
Lagomorph,Wow, post of the month goes to you. Devastatingly comprehensive
refutations and very courteously written.
Repubs aren't extreme. They're total nutjobs.
Re:CounterIntell"To claim to be pro-choice while simultaneously
eliminating conscience clauses allowing doctors pharmacists and hospitals to opt
out of providing abortion, or demanding insurance paying for abortofacient drugs
is dramatically hypocritical because there can be No choice if No is not an
option"Pharmacists provide abortions?I wasn't
aware of that.BTWThe "morning after pill"--Plan B and
Ella are not abortifacients. They prevent ovulation.RU486 is classified
as an abortifacient drug and can only be dispensed by a Dr. Pharmacists do not
dispense RU486.Under current law, a pharmacist who is opposed to the
morning-after pill can refuse to sell the pill but they must direct the customer
to another provider.Hospitals are not required to provide abortions.
Badgerbadger: "Do you really know people who believe these things? ...Do
your liberal chums hang out together and imagine what the republicans are
thinking?"Continued...There is a phenomenon called
Poe's Law (originally applied to creationists but often more generally to
conservatives now) that says that extreme conservatives are impossible to parody
because one of them will always come up with something crazier than you can make
up*. My liberal chums don't have to hang out together and imagine what
Republicans are thinking. They are eager to tell us. And they often exceed our
imagination. Akin, Mourdock, Gohmert, LaPierre, Nugent, Bachmann, Limbaugh, and
on and on. They may not be representative of the Republican Party as a whole,
but they have a way of being the ones getting the airtime and defining the
issues for the party.* In bipartisan fairness, I should concede that
liberals can also pull a Poe, like the CNN talking head who asked Bill Nigh if
climate change had anything to do with the approaching asteroid. But nobody
seems to take the extreme left as seriously as the extreme right.
Badgerbadger: "Do you really know people who believe these things? ...Do
your liberal chums hang out together and imagine what the republicans are
thinking?"I listen to Glenn Beck and Kyal2K on my commute. I
occasionally wander onto TheBlaze, TownHall, and used to read WorldNetDaily
regularly. I have conservative facebook friends who post regular screeds. I
read the DesNews and its comment boards. Unless these media are completely
populated by insincere trolls faking opinions, I think I have some sense of the
range of Republican viewpoints, from fullbore libertarian Randians (Ayn or Paul)
to the Mitt Romney who once ran to the left of Ted Kennedy. You probably have
moderate to centrist friends of the George Will or even Kathleen Parker or David
Brooks variety, but the extremists exist (try reading the unmoderated comments
at TheBlaze sometime). And that's not even getting into the hardcore
supremacists and hate groups.In the bell curve of political opinion,
I would imagine you and your circle hew close to the peak. However, there are
folks a standard deviation or two away from the mean and many seem to be
disproportionately defining the issues on your behalf.
@ Counter IntelligenceI’m sorry, but I fail to see how claims
of extremism among others somehow make it acceptable for the Republican far
right. As Menachem Begin of Israel said to Egypt’s Anwar Sadat, who
excused himself for attacking Israel on the Sabbath, “Deceit is
Badgerbadger: "How is a sonogram invasive to a person who is seeking to
have dilation instruments, scalpels, and suction hoses inserted 8+ inches deep
into their body?"An earlier (what I thought was) delicately
worded reply seems to be lost in moderation. I'll try to be even more
judicious now.The difference lies in personal autonomy, choice, and
consent. The wand ultrasound procedure in the Virginia law is dictated by the
state. The woman has no choice. She has a choice vis-a-vis the other items you
mentioned and can freely consent to their use. By making the ultrasound
procedure a mandatory precondition for another legal procedure, the state has
coerced or extorted consent. The woman is not willingly giving permission for
the physical intrusion (we're not talking the familiar external jelly on
the belly ultrasound here) mandated by the state. The ultrasound procedure is
not medically indicated and its government-mandated use seems punitive for the
patient rather than in her interest. That qualifies as extreme.
LDS Liberal: "Pres. Obama could cure cancer, balance the budget, end all
wars, and raise the dead....and some Republicans would STILL view everything he
does as wrong, bad, and evil.THAT is called extremism."You
could have said the same thing 5 years ago about Pres. Bush and a whole bunch of
Democrats. I suppose you considered them all extremists at the time as well.
@Mike in Cedar City9:12 a.m. Feb. 14, 2013Cedar City, UtahExtreme..? Lets see... ==========Agreed.Add to
it……women don't get pregnant from "legitimate
rape."…even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape,
that it is something that “God intended to happen."Victims of
rape to make “Lemons can be made into lemonade.” Global
warming is a hoax.Evolution is a theory and should not be taught in
school.Sex ed should not be taught in school.no restrictions on
assault rifles, and no Back-Ground checks.Muslims can not have religious
freedom and build a cultural center in NYC.Birthers.Extremism.Most Americans do not agree with it.Most Republicans do
not agree with it, but for some reason.No wonder Gov. Bobby Jindal
said if the GOP wants to start winning election, they need to stop being the
Party of Stupid.
To flatly reject any and all criticism of Hollywood’s glorification of
violence (while Obama simultaneously profiteers from campaign donations from
those who profiteer from violence) is a guarantee of further violence in
America.To categorically reject any restriction on abortion, as
expressed by the Democratic Party platform, even restrictions on late term of
gender based abortion, is extremist.To claim to be pro-choice while
simultaneously eliminating conscience clauses allowing doctors pharmacists and
hospitals to opt out of providing abortion, or demanding insurance paying for
abortofacient drugs is dramatically hypocritical because there can be No choice
if No is not an option And under a façade of ideological
gamesmanship, to absolutely insist on no reduction in spending for any
entitlement program, sadly seeking political gain at the expense of our national
interest. That, my friends, is extremism.This letter is
absolutely correct, as evidence by the wildly hypocritical wailings of the usual
Chuck Hagel is a third rate politician with terrible principles. we do not want
him, is that clear? A balanced budget, less government, lower taxes is the only
way to prosperity.
Meanwhile -- I have to laugh everytime I hear the GOP extremists
saying the reason the GOP is getting smaller and winning less is because the GOP
is not extreme ENOUGH !THAT is the definition of extreme.
@Mike in Cedar CityCedar City, UtahExtreme..? Lets see... Agreed.Add to it…“Legitimate” rape victims
spontaneously abort.God intended rape victims pregnancies.Rape
victims should make lemonade from lemons.The earth is 6,000 years old.Global Warming is a hoax.Reproduction and Evolution should not be taught
in school.No weapon restrictions, and no Back-Ground checks.Muslims
can't have freedom of religion [a Cultural center].Birthers.And the GOP rakes Gov. Bobby Jindal over the coals for saying that the GOP
needs to stop being the Party of Stupid.Extremeism.
The letter writer represents the views held by 30% of the public and 90% of the
editorial staff of this newspaper and FOX.Bully for you guys. Meanwhile, the rest of the nation sees important work to be done and is
getting down to business.
Actually, Mike in Cedar City gave a pretty comprehensive list which should
In the case of the Tea Party, extreme would mean unwilling to compromise.
The unstated position where many of their caucus want to drive us into the debt
ceiling limit without increase which would destroy our economy.
Extreme?republicons calling for a fillibuster on Chuck Hagel...Chuck Hagel is...A Republican decorated Viet Nam
Veteran...A Republican wounded in action...A former
Republican Senator from Nebraska.A Republican successful
businessman.So, we have for the first time in the history of our
country a presidential nominee for secretary of defense has been
fillibustered.I'd call that extreme.
Here are some of the stupidest comments I have ever seen. Do you really know
people who believe these things? Where are the masses of republicans who want
these programs you claim they want? They don't exist. I live in the most
conservative state in the union and hang out with conservatives and I hear no
calls for such programs, and policies. Do your liberal chums hang
out together and imagine what the republicans are thinking? I know you
don't hang out with them because you don't even know them.Do the majority of liberals really believe these lies? If so there is a
totally delusional class of people.And as a side note, How is a
sonogram invasive to a person who is seeking to have dilation instruments,
scalpels, and suction hoses inserted 8+ inches deep into their body?
Pres. Obama could cure cancer, balance the budget, end all wars, and raise the
dead....and some Republicans would STILL view everything he does as wrong, bad,
and evil.THAT is called extremism.
Please continue down the same path, GOP. Insist that you aren't extreme
and that everyone "agrees" with you. Worked great in
My view of political extremism is when a person criticizes his opposition in the
most virulent ways for doing the same things that he himself is guilty of.
Reference the writer's list of issues:abortion - Okay, I hold similar
views.deficit spending vs. the national debt - Again, I hold similar
views.media bias - You have to be kidding. Yes, some national media
sources tilt left but Fox (a huge national media source) is pedal to the metal
on the right.excessive executive orders - No. Read your history. Obama
has been slow here. This is a myth.recess appointments - he got his hand
slapped on some but other presidents have used recess appointments.open
national borders - Again, you have to be kidding. We got to where we are over
several decades. Obama's record here is much better than his predecessors.
Not perfect, but better.increasingly bloated federal government –
This one always comes down to which side of the govt. you want to bloat. As in
the next point – a strong military.voter identification – I
kind of agree but I think it is a losing issue for the GOP. We look like we are
trying to stop people from voting who should vote (never a good stance).free markets (capitalism) – Obama could do better.I am out of
Extreme or moderate doesn't matter much when it comes to Republicanism,
which consists of: bought-and-paid-for government, buyer beware, short-term
exploitation of our resources, no concern for the environment, glorification of
guns, and most of all WAR. Republican party exists to keep the
military-industrial complex in business by occupying 27 foreign countries and
bombing small countries to rubble, while charging all costs to the
taxpayer's credit card. An extreme Republican is just one who is extremely
in favor of these things.
Please Mr. McDonald, which of these positions do you find "extreme"?Fred L. GreerOK, let’s start with abortion, you oppose
any and all abortions – even for rape, incest, life of the woman =
extreme.deficit spending – Bush, TARP, 2 unfunded wars,
Medicare D?,media bias, - FauxNews. Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck?excessive executive orders – please?open national
borders – Obama has had more going home, than coming in.We
support: a strong military, - and start offensive wars of aggression and make up
lies to justify it.free markets (capitalism), - offloading to
Communist Red China, above all, the U.S. Constitution –
Patriot Act?Extremism?Archie Bunker was less extreme
than today's GOP.Try being honest with yourself.Before
the Republican Party vanishes to a mere dot of singularity.
Many Germans were saying the same thing in the 30s. Nazism isn't
"too" extreme.Difficult to change when you have your head so
far into the clouds claiming that you are RIGHT and that you NEVER should
compromise. All totalitarian movements pride themselves on their lack of
Extreme..? Lets see... who is it that wants mandatory invasive sonograms? Who
wants a "personhood amendment" that would ban most forms of
contraception? Who is it that won't permit reasonable gun controls in the
face of the slaughter that is goin on? Who is it that thinks that the oil
companies, and corporations should be subsidized and excluded from paying taxs,
while the poor can't be permitted a decent minimum wage? Who is it the
grinds their heel in the face of the poor while hiding behind the concept of
"personal responsibility"? Who was that pushed the notion of trickle
down economics, while pushing deregulation the financial sector that led
directly to the crash of 2008? Who is it that thinks that a treaty to assist
disabled persons overseas will marginalize school children in Utah? Who was it
that was willing to risk the full faith and credit of the United States by
blocking action on the deficit limit? Not extreme? If you think that, you must
be from a different universe. Who is it that thinks that 47% of us are
deadbeats. Well, let me clue you in, it ain't the democrats.
Lest we lose our way in our discussion of political extremism, we need to
understand that its usage in American English refers to, "Any political
theory favoring immoderate uncompromising policies."Immoderate
(beyond reasonable limits) and uncompromising are unfortunately pervasive
qualities across our political landscape but nowadays seem particularly apt in
describing the political maneuvering of the far right and its affect on key
issues of our nation. To flatly reject any and all federal efforts
at reasonable gun control seriously curtails any solution to the critical issue
of gun violence in America.To categorically reject a path to
legality for undocumented immigrants (absolutely no amnesty for anyone) or to
insist that the Mexican border be completely sealed prior to any negotiation on
immigration is to totally undermine any possibility of immigration reform.And under a façade of ideological gamesmanship, to absolutely
insist on no change to taxes in negotiating a reasonable and comprehensive
national financial package is a known nonstarter, sadly seeking political gain
at the expense of our national interest. That, my friends, is
If the GOP is not extreme, then why is that party responsible for most of the
increasing deficit? Why are they so hateful toward senior citizens and others
who make up that awful 47%? If they support personal freedoms, why are they
considering banning smoking in cars by parents of children riding in the cars?
(Although I guess we could argue that we are protecting the children.)If the GOP is not extreme, why do they jump and then ask for permission to
come down when the Eagle Forum squawks?That letter was right on the