LDS Liberal – “You T. Partiers support racial profiling. Racial
Profiling is based on the premise of one's race = racism. Enough
said.”Not quite…I am neither a tea partier
nor a conservative, and yet some level of racial profiling strikes me as not
only pragmatic but logical. Israel uses racial (and age) profiling because they
have identified a certain demographic as most likely to highjack an airplane.
Whenever I see a grandmother or a child being patted down at our
airports, I bemoan our own lack of common sense in this area.And as
someone who leans left on many issues, I really wish the Left would show more
discrimination (no pun intended) when bringing race into the conversation. We
all know that racists are more at home on the (far) Right than the Left, but it
is a fallacy to suggest that all conservatives (or tea party folks) are racist.
That sort of “profiling” won’t win you many
friends… at least among those are don’t already think the same way
T. PartyPleasant Grove, UTRacists are not welcome among us,
but their presence makes it convenient for our opponents, who apply the label
falsely as a means of shutting down discussion.===========You T. Partiers support racial profiling.Racial Profiling is based on
the premise of one's race = racism.Enough said.
@Noodle "I think the better question is why does the tea party attract this
kind of element?"I think this is a great question, and that it
has a couple of fairly simple answers. One is that tea party activists tend to
read the Tenth Amendment literally, and believe it limits the size and power of
the federal government. But historically, going back to pre-Civil-War times,
there have been people who wrongly interpreted the Tenth Amendment as allowing
slavery. (One of the code words for pro-slavery was "states rights.")
Racist elements today often are not smart enough to see that we believe in one
thing without believing in the other.The other reason is that many
tea party activists believe that the rule of law should apply to immigration
policy, and this is interpreted both by racists and our political opponents to
mean we're anti-immigration. We're not.Racists are not
welcome among us, but their presence makes it convenient for our opponents, who
apply the label falsely as a means of shutting down discussion.@Vanka "...straw man..."Keep your eyes open. The
illustration in my previous comment was not a far stretch.
To J Thompson 6:39 p.m. Feb. 12The same tactics are used by Beck,
Hannity, & Rushie. Yet, you probably believe that they are
valiant crusaders for all that is decent.
re: RedShirt"Wow, reading the comments here, you can really see
that liberals are bitter and angry."And AM talk radio and Fox
News is all sunshine & lollipops? "The irony here is that
many of the same people who complain about Utah being dominated by Republicans
are the very ones who complain the loudest about any group that opposes the
liberals."The real, legitimate irony is that your comment about
irony contradicts itself. Who wrote that last bit for you? Arnold Rimmer? Frank
To "UtahBlueDevil" go back and read the comments made by many of the
typical liberal commentors. They are not disagreeing with anything from the
article or with any other commentor. They are attacking those who do not agree
with their liberal ideology.Again, if the liberal philosophy is to
live-and-let-live, and accept everybody and their ideas, why do they attack
those who they don't agree with. There is no acceptance in their attacks.
@redshirt.... what hate talk are youi referring to? I mean, what here is
classified as "hate" where as the same language used the other way is
what? Or is it that you accept hate talk from conservatives, it just surprised
you that "liberals" used the same negative tones in their messages.I even commented that I saw value in having the Tea Party having a seat
at the table - even though I disagree with them, to which I was labelled a
"Radical Leftie". If my position is "radical", I would hate to
see what others opinopns are viewed as.Disagreeing does not equate
to "hate"... at least I hope not. And I don't think either side
has a hold on the disagreeing part.
T. Party wrote an extended dialog between a TPartier and a "Lefty".Wow! That Lefty Man was so full of straw it would make Ray Bolger
envious!Why can't the TP-ers wake up and realize that it is
just this kind of absurd, superficial, misrepresented diatribe that completely
undermines their credibility?If you are going to take issue with the
position of your opponent, the very least you can do is give the illusion of
representing your opponents position with some semblance of integrity before you
attack it.But since you didn't, it reveals that both your
mischaracterization as well as your own position is full of straw!
@TPartyI'll say this. I've never been to a tea party rally. But
i've been at thanksgiving dinner and heard about "our illegal (racist
word for mixed race) president" or the "King N(fill in the rest of this
word)". Or, how all of the (slur for hispanics) should leave the country,
even if they are legal residents. I honestly believe that many of the people who
call the tea party racist have heard from friends and family members, who really
are racist, and cling to tea party ideals. I think the better question is why
does the tea party attract this kind of element?
@Craig Clark "...racial and gay-bashing slurs..."These are
serious accusations. Have you ever been eyewitness to a tea party event where
they occurred? I haven't. I've never met a tea party activist who used
such slurs. I'm inclined to believe that these accusations are an example
of the Goebbels "Big Lie" tactic -- repeating the same falsehood over
and over again until it becomes accepted as truth.One example: an
allegation was made that tea party protesters yelled racial epithets at the
Congressional Black Caucus on the day of the health care vote. The allegation
was reported as fact in the news media. Yet, when Andrew Breitbart offered
$100,000 to anyone providing a video of this occurrence, no one could do it.
This, in the age of ubiquitous video coverage.Usually tea party
racism goes something like this:TEA PARTIER: Obamacare is bad
policy. It's too expensive, and it will foster dependency on government.LEFTY: You are only saying this because you hate black people. You are a
racist.Who is the racist here? Who brought up race? And how do we
have a rational conversation, when these kinds of tactics are being used?
And yet there was one seat Jim Demint helped win, that of Senator Mike Lee.
Are not tea parties known the world over for their theme of WHIMSY?And for that theme of whimsy arevery, very popular and
appealingto little girls and old ladies???
Wow, reading the comments here, you can really see that liberals are bitter and
angry.Why do you liberals hate so much?I have been told
my many liberals that the liberal philosophy is to live-and-let-live, and that
you accept everybody and their ideas. Reading the comments here it appears that
if you are not liberal enough, you are considered evil and should be destroyed
at all costs.The irony here is that many of the same people who
complain about Utah being dominated by Republicans are the very ones who
complain the loudest about any group that opposes the liberals.
The Koch brothers new vehicle runs on tea and bitter vocal protestation.
What in Tucket?,"interesting that just about all these articles
about how bad and radical the Tea Party might be they never seem actually to
mention where the Tea Party stands on issues. I thought it was lower taxes, less
regulation , fewer Federal workers, a balanced budget for starters. These
positions do not seem too bad to me."____________________Sounds mainstream, doesn’t it? No espousal of racial and gay-bashing
slurs that have been reported at their rallies where placards were displayed
with caricatures of Barak Obama with a Hitler mustache. They insist
they’re mainstream but they’re finding it increasingly difficult to
get the public to buy what they’re trying to sell. Why do you suppose that
What in Tucket?Provo, UTinteresting that just about all these
articles about how bad and radical the Tea Party might be they never seem
actually to mention where the Tea Party stands on issues. I thought it was lower
taxes, less regulation , fewer Federal workers, a balanced budget for starters.
These positions do not seem too bad to me.9:40 p.m. Feb. 11, 2013============ And then they added: Global Warming
is a hoax, The Eaarth is only 6,000 years old, Cut spending on
everything but the military, and increase it, denying healthcare to those
with pre-existing conditions, Everyone should have an assault rifle w/
high capacity magazines - and NO background checks, Drill Baby drill,
Burn baby burn, taking away Women's rights, Hispanics are not
equal, the young people don't need expensive higher educations, Obama's birth certificate, 4 deaths in Benghazi is a a HUGE
mistake, while 7,000 deaths and $2 Trillions in the Bush wars isn't,...shall I continue?...Perhaps if they stuck to the core
issues, they wouldn't seem so extreme - and might still be popular.
Tucket is right. The tea party movement really began when Rick Santelli appeared
on CNBC in February of 2009, broadcasting from Chicago, and suggested that there
should be a "Chicago Tea Party" to protest the unwise government actions
which had led to the housing collapse. It is interesting that no one, including
Bailout Bob, has mentioned these origins.Tea party protests are made
up of ordinary, law-abiding people who go to work every day, who have come to
the realization that someone needs to speak up in favor of Constitutionally
limited government, responsible fiscal behavior, and lower taxes. That's
all we are.Much vitriol has been employed by the media to paint an
ugly picture of us (parroted by ignorant people who claim to be open minded) but
those are only smears. Tea party demonstrations are orderly and peaceful, and
the people who attend them are your neighbors. We love America and care about
our children and grandchildren just as you do.
Ask dick armey...The tp'er who scored the $8,000,000 golden
parachute.The same tp people who moan about excessive spending spent
$8,000,000 to make one of their grass-roots super-heroes go away...tp'ers...Please continue to do what you are doing.Thank you!
Upset about the bailouts? I hate to break this to you, but they
started before Obama was even elected: **'Bush signs $700
billion bailout bill' - AP - Published by Denver Post - By Tom Raum -
interesting that just about all these articles about how bad and radical the Tea
Party might be they never seem actually to mention where the Tea Party stands on
issues. I thought it was lower taxes, less regulation , fewer Federal workers,
a balanced budget for starters. These positions do not seem too bad to me.
@MapleDon- you are confusing left wingedness with someone who was a life long
moderate conservative tired of reading the never ending drivel of lies and
misrepresentations. You don't have to be a liberal to dislike dishonesty
and arguments made based on innuendo and half facts. I don't
find hate a family value - and I see that a good portion of the Republican party
has become the party of anti anything, and any one, without a single positive
solution. I personally see no value in voting over 20 times against ObamaCare,
without a single alternative put on the table.So if being against
people who for party sake openly state their goal is to make our dually elected
president fail - at the cost of every citizen of this nation - if that makes
one a liberal... I guess I am a liberal.... what ever that means.But
I would then also be a liberal who helped the Republican party sweep into power
in North Carolina this election by working on the McCory campaign. In my
opinion, anytime you are all one way or another, you aren't doing too much
thinking. Just my opinion.
What is the future of the Tea Party? I will tell you (with a grin):The March Hare (Ryun) thinks we in the "post-party" era, despite the
fact that time has been punishing them by stopping at 6:00pm (tea time), giving
the illusion that the Tea Party will never end.Meanwhile, the Mad
Hatter (Glenn Beck) continues to weep voraciously while trying to figure out why
a raven is like a writing desk, but being unable to find the answer in any of
Skousen's revisionist history books.The very tired Dormouse
(Meckler) was arrested at New York's LaGuardia Airport and charged with
felony possession of a weapon, so he fell asleep on Jason Chaffetz' cot.Alice (Palin) is becoming insulted and tired of being bombarded with
riddles (such as questions about what news magazines she reads), so she is
painting the roses red for her daughters' "un-wedding" while
preaching Family Values.Eric Odom is taking the advice of the Dodo
(Bachmann) and organizing a caucus race in the House Permanent Select Committee
on Intelligence, investigating the Muslim Brotherhood's "deep
penetration" into the U.S. government using flamingos.And Mike
Lee is a hedgehog.Croquet anyone?
Nothing in politics goes on forever. Sen. Lee seen to that. Sen. Bennett sour
grapes are just that. Sour. We witness often two sore losers. You and John
Maple Don, Please vote for yourself! You need to get a few more votes. The tea
party needs them as they fall in to the decline they deserve.
1. I liked Bob. His Rural Business conferences are sorely missed Mr. lee. He
never charged $150 to attend Governor.2. I believe Beck left Fox.3. Taxed Enough Already will reappear each time taxation with
representation gets onerous on the middle class.4. If the Koch brothers
truly financed many of the rallies and seminars they got much more for their
money than Works did for financing Occupy. I hope NY and Oakland sue him for
Is the Tea Party over?Is the John Birch Society finally dead?Is Joe
McCarthyism still rampant?Is the Salem Witch Trials over yet?They never go away, as long as there is ignorance, they will just
keep re-incarnating themselves.
There was reason a'plenty to be angry at the time (still is); however the
anger pushed aside reason and to a certain extent the tea party shot itself in
the foot. Mr.Bennett's ouster was one of the latter, judging from Senator
@UtahBlueDevilYour comments have consistently been on the left (we
call it "Radical Left"). I'm only surprised you didn't blame
Bush. Now, get back to work.
"Hooray for the radically uncommitted, meandering, milquetoast, moderates
who stand and have conviction for nothing."Why thank you.
Considering the source, I take that as a proud endorsement. I would rather be
radically uncommitted than just another drone that repeats the never ending
sludge of negative, party purity, conformist types.I feel warm all
Bob Bennett was a wise and capable Senator, unlike Mike Short-Sale Lee who will
not work with anyone. We have an utterly useless voice in Washington now. Will
someone in the Republican party rise up and save us from Lee in 2016? Mr.
Huntsman, how about you?
In 2009 and 2010, tea party was TEA Party, as in Taxed Enough Already. Many
agreed with that and became involved. When groups like the Freedom Works,
claimed they were responsible for your dad loosing, when it was actually 3
candidate campaigns and local grass roots groups, things started going down
hill.I believe Sen. Bennett lost despite Freedom Works'
involvement, and those that wanted Dan Liljenquist to win this last year
couldn't yell loud enough for Freedom Works to get out of town and stay out
of the race. Freedom Works' involvement in 2012 was one of the reasons.
Sen. Hatch won, along with Dave & Kitty, who are amazing.In 2011, TEA Party went from fiscal conservative to a combination of
Libertarian and other specific issues. Yes, there were Libertarians at the
beginning, but they hadn't claimed the movement yet. When Tea Party became
associated with other issues besides conservative fiscal issues, and national
groups started calling Tea Party theirs, it went from TEA Party, to Tea Party,
to tea party.
I think a good questoion for Senator Bennett or any of us who might be wondering
what the future of the Tea Party might be is to ask what they have
accommplished. They took away seats from moderate Republicans but did they
really take away seats from the Democrats? In same cases their presense on the
ticket swung a vote away from the Republicansd and helped to elect a
Democrat.Have they put forth any meaningful legislation that has
helped us in any of our major issues? I can't think of any. They have
mainly played obstructionist or they have put forth legislation that is so far
out of line with the American people that it didn't have a chance of being
passed. Any of us can waste each others time complaining about the government
(in afct, I think that's what do every day on this page) but we need real
leaders to actually make things happen in the government. Has the
Tea PArty produced any of those? I can't see any from where I sit.
All political movements start with enthusiasm and idealism. I never jumped on
the TP bandwagon and they never jumped to my aid. I think they have done much
good in getting apathetic citizens to start thinking about what future we are
creating with the two headed monster (D&R). The party movement may well fade
if they don't go back to the basic fiscal concepts that energized the
people, but those that have awakened may well be a force in modifying the
existing parties or creating a viable third party. It will be interesting to see
how this develops, but I fear that, if they don't find more success soon,
apathy will again become the order of the day as those that care about the
future lose hope that anything substantive can be done.
The Tea Party movement has proven once again that extremism, either right or
left can get a lot of attention and a little momentum, but it is
unsustainable.I sincerely hope that the Republicans learn this
lesson before the next election.
The Tea Party seem to be super patriots with an economic cause and little regard
for people. Their backing by the rich and powerful means that they have the
resources to carry on even in the face of lost popularity.
JoeBlowFar East USA, SCThe tea party would rather lose with their
ideal candidate then to win with one that isn't perfect for them.============== HaHaHA, very funny... sad, but true.I thought of a few more GOP RINO - Think about and you are OUT(s) -- Global Warming? You are OUT.the Earth is old than 6,000 years? You
are OUT.allowing access to Healthcare for all Americans? You are OUT.banning military assault guns and high capacity magazine? You are OUT.Civil Unions or Domestic Partnerships? You are OUT.raising taxes of
Billionaires? You are OUT.immigration reform? You are OUT.co-sponsoring a bill with a Democrat? You are OUT.even having lunch with
a Democrat? You are OUT.Don't even think about it...Just one tick to the left, by ANY measure, or compromise...and the
Political Puritan Tea-Party will burn you alive at the Stake.But go
ahead and keep cannibalizing and self-imploding -- This sort of intolerence in
the name of politcal purity and ideology will be your doom.
While Mr. Bennett's regarding the path and likely fate of the tea party
movement obviously omits some significant details, overall it is a fair summary
and makes a good point; namely, that the tea party movement has evolved into
something that is monolithic, but not very cohesive, that doesn't resonate
with the masses to the extent that it originally did, and that its viability is
in serious doubt.As others have stated or implied, if the tea party
movement, or any political movement in the United States, would focus on fiscal
responsibility (vs. "starving the beast"), government accountability and
optimization (vs. all-out minimization of the size and scope of government), and
the notion that government exists to serve the people (vs. the notion that no
good thing can EVER come from government), then that movement would almost
certainly gain widespread support across party lines, would wield a tremendous
amount of influence, and would likely be viable for a long time. The only real
threat such a movement would have would be from those in power who benefit from
the status quo.
No future for the Tea Party. They have proved unworthy to govern, its as simple
as that. And unles it reforms itself rather than just rebranding itself
the Republican party is doomed. It is also just a regional party.
At its debut, the 'tea party' came off as too confrontational and
unyielding. Now it seems poised to lose most every battle they have fought. My
solution? Send them the book 'Baby Steps' and if they are smart they
may get somewhere.
I'm one who helped "toss" Senator Bennett at my neighborhood caucus
and I'm no tea partyier (even if that is a word).
And Utah has, what - 50% - of our Congressional representatives as members of
the Tea Party Caucus?[Even though less than 10% of the entire GOP House
belongs to it, and only 4% of the Senate.]All taking orders from Tea
Party Caucus Chairman - Michelle Bachmann.Utah has affiliated itself
with the worst of the worst.Isn't that right Mr. Fiscal
conservative Tea-Party darling, Senator Short-Sale, Lee?
The Tea Party was good when it was started under Ron Paul. But it became
neoconned when Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin infiltrated it.
I am going to sort of disagree - I think in a moderated way, the tea party and
its views add value. The problem is it became the catch all for every anti -
something person out there... it became defocused, it became just anti to be
anti. It was the conservative cool kids party. Problem is that it did get
co-opted. It did become about other things than just fiscal conservatism. It
did become about race - like it or not. There were all these fringe agendas
pulled into this so call "party".Now, not to be
misunderstood, there isn't much I agree with - when it comes to the Tea
Party. But they, or their fiscal conservative parts, play an important part of
keeping balance in Washington. If they stay to supporting that policy, there
is room for them at the table.But as we have seen, Tea Party has
become to mean something much more than that. They have become the
"anti" party - which produces nothing or worth. As long as people like
Sarah Palin and Glen Beck try to be the face of the party, nothing positive will
come from it.
Hooray for the radically uncommitted, meandering, milquetoast, moderates who
stand and have conviction for nothing. If it weren't for the left-wing
media and polls, where would they be?
The Tea has steeped too long in its own juices and become bitter and cold.
The tea party continues to have entertainment value.
Tyler DExcellent analysis.
The tea party would rather lose with their ideal candidate then to win with one
that isn't perfect for them.Think a womans right to choose is
reasonable? You are OUT.Think trickle down economics has not been
shown to work? You are OUT.Think personhood rights for the unborn
are unacceptable? You are OUT.If the T party would elect fiscal
conservative and leave the social baggage alone, they may have something. Same
goes with their followers. They dont leave room for even the slightest
Political success in American politics comes from broad-based
coalition-building. The tea party attempt to radicalize conservatism only
succeeded in dividing it.
Senator Bennett omitted any reference to the influence of BIG MONEY in the rise
of the Tea Party.Big money from the likes of the Koch brothers, et
al.As for me -- I just hope the Tea Party will die. Fast.
Mr. Bennett’s analysis is a bit too “in the weeds.” A more
succinct and accurate portrayal might be:1.Tea Party starts as
outrage over bailouts and its early message was one of fiscal responsibility.2.Glenn Beck jumps on board and those who have never spent any time in
“crazytown” begin to get nervous.3.Small government
conservatives get on the bandwagon and they become the movement (and in 2010,
the party) of “no.”4.Movement gets co-opted by social and
religious conservatives, and that combined with #3 pushes the message of #1
totally aside causing them to lose all credibility with Independents and
Pragmatists (who were on board with message #1).I recall a radio
interview a couple years back that included a Tea Party and an Occupy Wall
Street leader (if there is such a thing). Turns out they agreed on about 80% of
the issues. We need a movement (or third party) based on that 80%,
and marginalize the wing nuts… then it might be more than just an
MapleDon, you're making his case for him. Utah lost Bob Bennett and got a
completely ineffective tea party demagogue that has done nothing for the state.
And given your own string of electoral losses, it's astonishing to me that
you would take aim at someone who won three elections over the course of two
The comments about tossing people out of office and obstructionism indicate it
was just like occupy wall street. Karl Rove, the guy with the money, has decided
to prevent it from nominating any more weak candidates. All that is left is the
yelling and blogging about Beck and Hannity concepts.
The Tea Party tossed Senator Bennett out of office when they were at the height
of their power. Now, that power has decreased as evidenced by their inability
to dislodge Senator Hatch as well as other evidence put forth in the article.
The Tea Party has two choices, either continue in its ultraconservatism and
continue to disrupt any possibility of Republican success in national elections
or push more middle ground conservatism with a degree of tolerance for pluralism
and have some impact in the national dialogue going forward.
@Bailout Bob: "...anti-government..."Wrong. We want
"just enough government.""Nothing in politics goes on
forever."But we'll be here long after you are gone.
You failed to mention that the "spontaneous movement" was fueled by
millions of dollars from the Koch Brothers. The middle class Tea Partiers have
been cynically manipulated by these .000001 percenters to campaign against
their own self interests. People are seeing through this charade and
the future of Tea Party will be increased marginalization within the Republican
Actually, fact checking will show that the first Tea Party sprouts sprung up in
2008, as soon as it became apparent that Obama would be the Democrat candidate.
His victory gave it momentum. By time he was inaugurated, it was a full fledged
movement - before he even had a chance to sit his seat in the Oval Office. Additional fact checking will show that there was central leadership and
financial support - it was never a truly organic movement.It did,
however, eventually outgrow the control if its handlers and start creating
problems for them - some tea party members (think Scott Brown) actually listened
to constituents and tried to do things instead of just saying no and
grandstanding all the time. This led to divisions within the Tea Party - which
affected its ability to win and has thus ended its usefulness to the Republican
Party which is now focused on attacking and destroying it. The
problem facing the Republican Party - and leading to editorials like this one -
is how to convince those who truly believed/believe in the Tea Party to give
that up and return to the fold.
For the future of our country there cannot be any future for the tea party.Unfortunately, despite the country rejecting the tea party's ideas,
I have a feeling that as Lon as they're backed by the Koch bros,
they'll stick around. What pests!
To MapleDon 11:46 p.m. Feb. 10, 2013And who tossed you out of
office?---------------------Radical far right extremists
who didn't give a hoot about the United States and its citizens.
Mr. Bennett, After the emergence of the Tea Party, you were not
able to even get the nomination for the seat you had previously, running on a
Republican ticket, in Republican voting Utah. After the Tea party,
Obama got his 1st & 2nd term. After the Tea Party, the
Republican House has only passed 3% of legislation and has only a 10% approval
rating. The calls from the Tea Party for an uncompromising and
'pure' concepts of conservatism... is what lead to
devastating losses for...conservatism.
And who tossed you out of office?