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Comments about ‘ACLU seeks removal of Ohio school's Jesus portrait’

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Published: Thursday, Feb. 7 2013 4:46 p.m. MST

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The Scientist
Provo, UT

Take it down.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

I know an excellent place for a portrait of Jesus.

In a church.

SME
Bountiful, UT

The ACLU was founded with the intent to remove all religious expression from public life, unlike many organizations, they have remained true to their original purpose.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

I am amused that in portraits, Jesus is always portrayed as a fair skinned American looking man.

Seriously, what are the chances of that?

IMAN
Marlborough, MA

Big proprs to the ACLU! They are concerned with ALL americans rights. Not just some.

3grandslams
Iowa City, IA

The Constitution protects religion, not hides it. If in any place this picture should be protected is in public schools that receive Federal money.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@3grand
Your ins of right it protects ALL religious beliefs (not just yours) which means we do not elevate one above all others which having a portrait of Jesus in school does.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

Can somebody tell me where in the Constitution it states that there is a separation between church and state? The closest that I can find is that we can't have a state religion.

The bigger question is why do all of you liberals and the ACLU support athiesism or secular humanism as the religion of choice? Why do you discriminate against Christians and Jews?

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@redshirt
It does not state there is a separation but please tell me how promoting one religious view over another is not a violation of religious liberty, the reason that many stress the necessity of a separation is that any lack of it leads to an elevation of one belief or a few beliefs above all others. Please tell us how you have religion in schools without giving preference of one over the other? As has been pointed out to you before no matter how hard you try to torture the meaning secularism and humanism are not religions and protecting minority religious views from dominate groups is not discrimination.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Can somebody tell me where in the Constitution it states that there is a separation between church and state?"

That phrase was used by Thomas Jefferson in describing what the constitution meant. He also used the phrase "wall of separation" when referring what the constitution meant.

So, no, that phrase is not specifically in the constitution, but is used to clarify what Jefferson believed the constitution meant.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

To me, this means that all religions get equal rights. If one permits Christian symbolism in a taxpayer funded place, then they must also permit Muslim or Buddhism symbolism if challenged.

Wouldnt allowing a picture of Jesus and not Allah, constitute "respecting an establishment of religion"?

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Tolstoy" how does a picture of Jesus promote one religious view over another? What religious liberty is being violated?

Does having a picture of Jesus in a school force you to be christian?

No liberty or freedom is violated by a picture of Jesus?

We already have religion in schools, and it is handled quite nicely. See "Maryland school allows Muslim students to leave class to pray" at NBC news. They have religion in school, and nobody complains.

Actually secularhumanism is a religion. One definition is (merrium webster) "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith". Secular humanism is a religion, like it or not.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

The constitution proscribes congress (and by extension, any government agency) from making any laws concerning the establishment of religion. by seeking the removal of the portrait, the ACLU is asking the court to pass a rule concerning the establishment of religion, contrary to the 1st amendment. In other words, the law should be neutral - requiring the removal of the portrait is hostile, not neutral.

Tolstoy,
how does the display of a portrait promote a view? Should we then ban every display of Santa Claus, who knows all concerning children and can be multiple places at teh same time? those are certainly god-like traits.

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

I think the school should just call it a picture of a random person.

The bitter liberals can't prove that any picture of any man ever is Jesus because no one knows what he really looked like. Just because this particular picture looks similar to what other people have drawn and called Jesus, doesn't mean the liberals can prove this is an example of shoving Christianity at anyone.

Just call the picture a picture of a random man and tell the libs to deal with it.

Maudine
SLC, UT

@ RedShirt: It is interesting that in one post you argue that the ACLU is discriminating against Christians and Jews and then in the next post you want to know how a picture of Jesus promotes one religious viewpoint over another.

Here is a hint: Jews don't believe in Jesus. Oh sure, there may have been a man named Jesus who lived at some point 2000 years ago, but he was just a man - there was nothing special about him, he wasn't even a prophet.

Why have a picture of Jesus, but not a picture of Moses? Why is there not a picture of Mohammad? Why isn't there a prominent picture of Zeus or Hercules? Why not have a picture of Socrates hanging there?

And if this picture does not promote a specific religion or set of religious beliefs, if it truly is just a "historical" picture, then why are so many Christians upset about its pending removal? If it has no meaning, why not just take it down and get on with life?

@ Chris B: If it is just a random man, why do you care if it is taken down?

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@redshirt
It does not force someone to be Christian but it does indicate that the school holds Christianity above all other religions which is a violation of the constitution and the key reason for the declaration of our independence and the revolutionary war.

So you really think allowing a student to CHOOSE to leave their regular schooling (which they do for all religious beliefs not just muslims) to attend a religious activity of their CHOOSING is the same as forcing all children to face the fact that this school holds christianity above all other religions?

I like your selective use of the one definition so lets see where it leads us then, please tell me how using your very selective definition of secular humanism that schools actually promote it?

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Maudine" slow down the selective reading. I never said that a picture of Jesus promotes one religion above another. I asked how a picture of Jesus forces you to be Christian, that is different.

I can't tell you why they did not hang another picture there, you would have to ask the people who first hung it up.

Lets look at it this way. Would you rather have your kids follow what Jesus taught (regardless of if you believe he is the Son of God) or rather he emulate somebody from Hollywood? Think of historical figures you would want your children to emulate, is Jesus really that bad of a person?

If you want to look at it from a historical perspective, why are you not stopping the school from removing art that is protected under "Freedom of Speech"?

Which is more important to you "freedom of religion" or "freedom of speech"?

To "Tolstoy" and how do we teach Utah history, or world history without teaching about religion? By removing christian, jewish, and any other traditional religion from the public view, you have by default established secular humanism.

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@redshirt
So then you really see no difference between on the one hand teaching kids that Utah was settled by LDS people and/or that Jewish people killed during the holocaust (along with many other groups for other reasons) due to their ethnicity and religion then displaying a portrait of jesus? the first two talk about the religion and/or ethnicity as they relate to history not their beliefs systems the third is about promotion of christian belief's.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "spring street" your ilk has yet to answer the central question. How are Christian beliefs being promoted with a picture of Jesus? Are students being told to worhsip him, or that they must be Christian?

How is a picture promotion of beliefs? If that is the case, then good luck teaching most of history becuase you will see lots of pictures of religious icons and people.

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@redshirt
not answered? really? Tolstoy answered your question, and Maud answered your question and now you are dodging, care to try again?

Maudine
SLC, UT

@ redshirt: According to many Christian religions, Jesus dislikes homosexuals and thought slavery was okay. I don't think he is a proper role model for kids. And the fact that you ask how his image promotes one religion over another and then follow it up with the statement that kids should follow his teachings - and, indeed will follow his teaching since his picture is the one being displayed, kind of shows the flaw in your reasoning while answering your question.

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