California is even worse off. The big pensions that go to the retired firemen
now living in Idaho, Montana, etc., (not to mention the retired policemen), are
sucking all of the money out of us down here.Much of the money that is
supposed to be allocated to our educational system, road repair, etc, simply
gets pilfered to the coffers of the retirees. They are like lotto winners. Some
make over $100,000/yr, for the rest of their lives. Of course, their worn-out
mantra is always, "we risk our lives". Some of that may be true, but if
one wants to use that criteria for pay, then all of our Iraqi/Afghanistan war
veterans deserve condos in Laguna Beach.
The problem is they paid folks X with the promise of Y dollars later on. Folks
worked according to that promise to pay. the employer did not listen to their
own accountants when they said the employer needed to put away Z dollars in
order to fund the future promises.Now, the system is broken. Why?
because the decision makers would not follow sound accounting procedures. Was
this known? It was talked about annually. And the board of directors (the
politicians) did nothing to solve it because doing so would have meant cuts in
other areas or raising additional revenues.The voters should have
known this as well and should have fired the liars and put in place truth
tellers. But truth tellers have a hard time getting elected (because lies are
so much sweeter to swallow). Unfortunately, the voters are getting what they
Why should I in Utah, be forced to pay the bill for an Illinois pension plan?
That's what a federal bailout amounts to.
It will be interesting to see which state declares bankruptcy first; Illinois or
California.Both states have disastrously unfunded pensions. Both
states have masses of illegal immigrants; except Kalyfornia's problem in
that regard is much worse. My guess is Kalyfornia will be bankrupt first. Most
likely followed by Illinois, Maryland, and New York.BTW - declaring
25 million illegals "citizens" will ONLY exacerbate the problem. They
will be followed by 3-4 million "new" illegals per year.
I find it difficult to believe that teachers pensions are the real cause of the
financial problems of states. I wonder how many UTOPIAs, transportations,
medicals, real estate developments, Zoos, Aviarys, theatres, ballets, Arts and
bribes paid to businesses have contributed to the problems. Of
course these obligations are bonded debt and must be paid. The obligations to
ordinary people are simply political promises. The obligations to
the people should have a much higher priority than financial bonds of investors
who are supposed to be at risk.
Who are the investors in Municipal bonds. It's the large pension funds for
the most part. Defaulting on them is a double whammy. It will even further
jeopardize the pension system and put all of the people on the pension system on
welfare. Worst case scenario. The Baby Boomers did it to themselves. They were
the fund managers, politicians, union organizers and decision makers for the
generation that caused this problem.
Twin Lights,I couldn't tell if you were talking about Illinois
and the politicians there, or the US and the recent Obama election. I think
Romney was correct to say that too many people vote based upon how much free
stuff they will get, rather than upon sound principles and truths.Now we have Obama...who by the way is from Illinois. ironic.
David,I was speaking of Illinois. But the problem certainly extends
to other states.There is a smaller parallel to the US govt. But the
federal pension problem is nominal by comparison and the issues with Soc. Sec.
are not quite analogous. Soc. Sec. has significant issues not because we saved
too little but because we did not actually save anything. We wrote ourselves an
IOU and then spent the money on other programs or gave it back via tax breaks.
The majority of the "stimulus" package was given to public sector unions
and again we see the failure of the "bailout". What does Obama and the
Democrats say the solution is? Not cutting spending, but more bailouts!
Bailouts are addicting! Once you start giving them, how do you stop?
The "stimulus" government bailouts were the beginning of a slippery
slope. How many other groups or states or businesses can use the same
justification to get a federal bailout. Bad idea then; and bad idea now. Nobody
was looking at how the pensions would be paid. The US government is worse.
President Johnson "borrowed" money from the Social Security
"Trust" Fund and the government has been doing it ever since. It is
essentially a pension fund that our political leaders have been raiding for
Utah teachers accepted lousy pay in return for a defined retirement and the
option of a 401K. Dan Liljenquist took that away. Now Utah teachers have lousy
pay and no defined retirement, only the 401K. They will NEVER be able to save
enough to live on in retirement, which means no retirement. Utah teachers can
now plan on working for lousy pay until they drop dead. Thanks, Dan.
Like the story of the 'Pied Piper of Hamelin' when we can't
afford the cost, then the debt is transfered to our children. We need to either
put up the cost, in increased taxes, or cut spending. We, the people can't
have it both ways. that's simply economic facts