Comments about ‘Letters: Ratify nuclear test ban’

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Published: Thursday, Feb. 7 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Ratification of the CTBT would advance prospects for the treaty's global entry into force and put additional pressure on North Korea and Iran to comply."

Yeah -- I'm sure the Grand Ayatullah and Peerless Leader Kim Jong Un will feel great pressure to abandon their nuclear aims by a US surrender on the issue.

Where do liberals come up with this stuff?

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Ratify the treaty. Because the best way to pressure the Iranians and North Koreans is with international support--treaty ratification would keep the pressure up.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . the best way to pressure the Iranians and North Koreans is with international support . . . ."

You mean that international support that built their reactors for them?

Yeah. That'll be effective.

Irony Guy
Bountiful, Utah

Ratification would mean further isolation of Iran and NOK, a good thing.

Christian 24-7
Murray, UT

If we drop our weapons, Iran and North Korea will do the same??? Naive!

Somehow I think that if we drop our weapons, we will find ourselves simply looking at the other end of their weapons.

I have read the words and works of these leaders. I am not about to drop my weapons.

I think a better tactic would be to fly a rocket test from the US and blow it up right over both those countries.

SG in SLC
Salt Lake City, UT

@procuradorfiscal (a TAD Procurement Specialist, perhaps?)

So, you think resuming nuclear weapons testing (with its associated downwind problems) is a good idea?

We already have enough high-tech nuclear warheads with enough total nuclear yield capacity to annihlate a significant portion of the planet's population; we have advanced delivery systems that undergo improvement on a regular basis; and, we have advanced ABM systems that also undergo improvement on a regular basis . . . so, what would be the point?

A single, fully-armed Ohio-class SSBN (with 24 Trident II missiles, each with four 475 kt MIRV warheads) would be enough to significantly exceed the entire North Korean nuclear arsenal. Same goes for Iran.

So again I ask, what would be the point in resuming U.S. nuclear weapons testing?

Are you really serious about this, or are you just being contrarian because you like pushing the buttons of the left-leaning denizens here in the DN comments forums?

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "So, you think resuming nuclear weapons testing (with its associated downwind problems) is a good idea?"

I admit ignorance on the topic. I've heard scientists indicate that some testing is necessary to validate life cycle data and assumptions. I've heard others suggest virtual testing eliminates the need.

The basis of my opposition to the treaty is the same as for my opposition to ALL meaningless liberal symbology -- it does no identifiable good, and, given the exigencies of the immutable law of unintended consequences, could wreak serious mischief.

It seems a simple risk/benefit analysis -- no identifiable good + some risk of bad = why take the chance?

Liberals inexplicably see WAY more value in symbolism than real people.

Emajor_
Ogden, UT

procuradorfiscal,

"no identifiable good + some risk of bad = why take the chance?"

Funny, that's the equation I use to form my opposition to nuclear testing.

SG in SLC
Salt Lake City, UT

procuradorfiscal,

I appreciate your reasoned and articulate response (it did contain a bit of snarkiness regarding liberalism, but I won't condemn you for being honest about your feelings on the matter).

I think we both can agree that it would be undesirable for our nation's knowledge base regarding nuclear weapons to become stagnant; but I think that we both would also agree that it is highly desirable and likely achievable to advance that knowledge base without conducting nuclear detonations.

Regarding the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, I would say that it has both symbolic and practical, tangible value. In the cases of North Korea and Iran, it is largely symbolic, though I agree with others that it does increase the pressure on them from the international community; it also puts some pessure on India, Pakistan, and Israel to act responsibly. With regard to the rest of the world, it is a much more tangible commitment to nuclear nonproliferation. Ratification of the CNTBT costs us little or nothing, and if it helps, even marginally, to contain the spread of nuclear weapons technology, then I would say that it is worth it.

Just my $0.02 . . .

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

procuradorfiscal: "Liberals inexplicably see WAY more value in symbolism than real people." [emphasis in original]

Ahem...
Minute Man Project
Opposition to CDC research on gun violence
Wand ultrasounds for women seeking abortions
Utah claiming title to federal lands
The Zion Curtain to protect impressionable children
Opposition to the contraceptive mandate
Mandatory gun ownership proposals (Springville, La Verkin)
Flag desecration constitutional amendment
Drill, Baby, Drill
From my cold dead fingers
Don't Tread on Me
etc.

The phenomenon of advancing symbolism over substance is a basic human character trait not confined to any political ideology. Nobody has a monopoly on it, just as no ideology has a monopoly on stupid. We are more cognizant of it in others and tend to be blind to it in ourselves (motes and beams, and all that), especially in our current highly politicized environment. I admit it's much more fun to play the curmudgeonly cynic and stereotype those who disagree as naive simpletons, but such putdowns and clever ripostes are no substitute for reasonable discussion (although I also must admit you do it with a particularly stylish flair). There's plenty of shallowness to go around. We all drink from the same well.

UT Brit
London, England

@Christian 24-7

"I think a better tactic would be to fly a rocket test from the US and blow it up right over both those countries."

No doubt Jesus would advocate the same thing. I am glad someone who proclaims to follow his teachings 24-7 is able to state them so eloquently.

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